What about introducing some imperial figures that are focused around mitigating the bonuses the rebel/merc support figures provide?

Maybe a droid that sits at the terminal and limits the amount of command cards a player can draw in a round. Or maybe that droid can force random comman Card discards from the players hand when he passes a certain threshold. Or a ranged unit that can spend a surge to strip a focus off a unit.

It would be very thematic to have imperial units that are focused on denial/limitations. I think 0-0-0 was a step in the right direction for Imp but let's take it a step further. Blaise was a good step in this direction... then they kind of veered off that track again.

1 hour ago, KReyloBen said:

I second limiting Gideon's abilities to Rebels only. C-3PO and Hera can remain as is. My beef with RCP is that Scum benefits more from it than it does the Rebels.

I don't think that is true at all. Of all the units in the game or at least the current meta, Elite Rangers depend on focus the most. Heras added surge for them is also very clutch.

If you take rcp out of the equation on a Han rangers and a IG pirate list and tell a player to pick a list to use I would bet 9.9/10 players would pick to play the scum list.

If you gave imperials a little bit more flexible spy than blaise, the spy trait or command cards do some of the thomgs you're talking about FrogTrigger. I agree an imperial chopper is what you're describing. It sounds great

Everytime this discussion shows up, I say the same thing: Jabba's focus s Merc-only, do the same thing for every Rebels buff. The easiest way to do so would even be to make a general rules change, that every buff is in-faction only, including Gideon, 3PO, Hera, Ko-Tun, Officers...

20 minutes ago, DerBaer said:

Everytime this discussion shows up, I say the same thing: Jabba's focus s Merc-only, do the same thing for every Rebels buff. The easiest way to do so would even be to make a general rules change, that every buff is in-faction only, including Gideon, 3PO, Hera, Ko-Tun, Officers...

Yes, that would be simple and elegant solution

Temp alliance to me is an example of a card that was designed to fix a problem that no longer exists. I think that small activation supports shouldn't be a part of scums faction identity. I always vision scum being a bunch of Mercs who agree to do a job together but aren't the greatest team players. I don't think Bossk or Boba Fett are going to make the sacrifice play so the other can get all the glory/credits.

I think faction identity is an important concept the game should keep forefront and having the RCP in both scum and rebels diminishes the faction identity between rebels and scum.

Scum have enough units now, they can survive without TA.

This is an interesting discussion.

Because of the TA shenanigans (bringing RCP into Mercs), I think that Gideon, 3P0, and Hera should all have the "Rebel" qualifier added to their buffing abilities, just as Jabba can only give a free attack or a Focus token to a Merc figure.

But beyond that, I really doubt that Gideon and 3P0 (or Hera either) need any sort of nerf in Rebel squads. Is anyone honestly willing to make the claim that Rebels would've been able to hold their own at Worlds this year (whether with Han-Rangers or another Rebel squad) if these core support units had been nerfed? We would've seen a lot less Rebels and a lot more Mercs and Imps. That wouldn't be a bad thing if 90% of the squads were Rebels...but that clearly wasn't the case. Gideon/Hera/3P0 are essential components of Rebel squads, and therefore to nerf them is to nerf the entire faction. If we're seriously talking about nerfing Gideon/Hera/3P0, then, while we're at it, we should also make rOfficers cost 3 and increase Greedo's cost to 5, because those pieces show up in almost every competitive squad for their respective factions. Rather, it seems to me that Gideon/Hera/3P0 need to remain as they are in Rebel squads, since the Rebel faction doesn't have that important Command Card synergy (among their key attackers) that the other factions have.

Everyone has been talking about how the meta is the most balanced that it's ever been...so then why would we want to wreck it by nerfing some of the most important components for an entire faction?

16 minutes ago, thereisnotry said:

Everyone has been talking about how the meta is the most balanced that it's ever been...so then why would we want to wreck it by nerfing some of the most important components for an entire faction?

We could flip this comment: If the meta's so balanced, why are we wanting to take away Rebel supports from Mercs?

The reason why we want to tweak Rebel supports from Mercs is because there's a perceived imbalance on having 2+ of Gideon/Threepio/Hera with at least one set of elite Weequays & other Merc Hunters. But, again, we just had the best meta Worlds ever; that doesn't invalidate folks concern about Rebel supports with Scum but it means a fix shouldn't be heavy-handed. Taking away Temporary Alliance and/or making all of Gideon/Threepio/Hera's abilities Rebel-only is overkill, in my opinion.

51 minutes ago, cnemmick said:

We could flip this comment: If the meta's so balanced, why are we wanting to take away Rebel supports from Mercs?

The reason why we want to tweak Rebel supports from Mercs is because there's a perceived imbalance on having 2+ of Gideon/Threepio/Hera with at least one set of elite Weequays & other Merc Hunters. But, again, we just had the best meta Worlds ever; that doesn't invalidate folks concern about Rebel supports with Scum but it means a fix shouldn't be heavy-handed. Taking away Temporary Alliance and/or making all of Gideon/Threepio/Hera's abilities Rebel-only is overkill, in my opinion.

The problem comes when thats the only thing played. I haven't faced a single IG list that didnt have rebel support. And thats a problem. If its too good, its the only thing played.

2 minutes ago, Kalandros said:

The problem comes when thats the only thing played. I haven't faced a single IG list that didnt have rebel support. And thats a problem. If its too good, its the only thing played.

If that's the line of thinking then Zillo is a way bigger problem than Temp Alliance. Most merc lists don't have the full rebel support package, and I've seen several that only have 1 of the 3. I've seen temp alliance used to pull rebel smugglers into mercs at a high level and I have seen Jabba played at a high level. I have NEVER seen a competitive Imperial list without Zillo since its release.

we're really in the post worlds doldrums if banning TA threads are already popping up. it's not going to happen, btw

Give us some news soon on Store Championships before we tear ourselves apart!

Ces, I'd also be totally fine with no changes at all. I only posted because I think it would be a massive mistake to nerf the RCP when they're in a Rebel squad. The merits (and demerits) of nerfing them in a Merc squad is another question, IMHO.

I don’t think anything really needs to happen right now with Gideon and Hera. Especially for Rebels with the sad looking units(assuming not much changes on the skirmish side) they are getting from Lothal. Hopefully the Clone Trooper is something to write home about.

I dislike the fact that every Rebel list includes 9 automatic points because the RCP+ is too good but same good he said for the double eJets in Imperials right now for the most part.

I do think it’s silly to think that Gideon, Hera and C3PO are too good in Mercs but not too strong in Rebels and so should only be banned from 1 of those factions by removing TA. I’d rather them take a small hit and then get more competitive figures that can realistically compete with them. I have a hard time thinking we’ll see anything that takes the spot of those 3.

I think nerf to TA that adds a faction limit like for jabba is a good solution, as long as Jabba gets its cost lowered to 4 or 5 pts.

Making Gids and 3po only focus Rebels would be OK but no other changes should be made... Don't nerf them!

I think we could just nerf TA to say "non-leader" this becomes more thematic, since why would a "leader" of the rebellion help mercenaries. Then if you wanted to do some random cool stuff you could, but you can't bring RCP in full, but you could bring over say, Jyn or whatever.

What if focus in skirmish just added 1 damage instead of a green die? This would also stop all the complaints from the imperial players.

7 hours ago, Golan Trevize said:

What if focus in skirmish just added 1 damage instead of a green die? This would also stop all the complaints from the imperial players.

Hit tokens are there for a reason. Focus is fine as is.

2 hours ago, Kalandros said:

Focus is fine as is.

Apparently not if easy access to it has started a week-long, intense discussion about fundamental game balance...

7 hours ago, ThatJakeGuy said:

Apparently not if easy access to it has started a week-long, intense discussion about fundamental game balance...

I think Kalandros was simply stating that the condition of focus is fine. Which I think is agreeable, but the issue which we are discussing is how it's super easy to get cheap access to multiple focus supports. Personally I wish we could convert some supports from focus providers to power token providers, or rework focus into distributing power tokens. I really like the power tokens as a mechanic and wish they were worked into the game earlier on.

Yes the condition but also how it is right now, if you remove it from too many places you gotta think how it affects the rest of the game - dealing with Vader especially becomes arduous at best due to his 2 black dice and zillo, many figures with 2 dice are taken because they can at least get a focus somehow, even if you usually give it to your 3 dice figures to get a big 4 dice attack. Those 2 dice figures, again, will struggle against anything that can stack too many blocks easily.

You can wish things were different, but be careful how what you suggest completely breaks the game.

Honestly, Gideon is the culprit in all of this. I know 3PO can be annoying but his range and movement limitations are a natural counter. Gideon can do everything better and handing out focus and movement is amazing with only LOS as a limitation. I've always said, he is the only and the most broken figure from the start of the game.

I like that Imperials don't have easy access to focus. Most of the Rebels are unique figures and often need focus to get their job done. I do wish Imperials had more access or support figures though than the Officer. Give them a token distributor or a more reliable way to Hide. The designers were overly cautious in their attempt to limit HIDE just because FOCUS was obviously too good. IF the reverse was true (Gideon and 3PO passed out Hide and Murne had to have more command cards to pass out focus to himself and another figure) no one would ever complain. Look at who can Hide (Blaise, Murne, Davith eWeequays) Make Hide more available and diminish or tighten up how one gets focused (Only Gideon is broken) Jabba costs twice as much and has severe limitations to his action in the game due to size and movement. And in reality, the complaint is about Gideon being in Merc lists. I don't hear complaints about Han being focused or Chewbacca. Just in the Merc faction. I like having TA for variety and thematic reasons, so if I had to vote change Gideon and you're fine.

My idea about focus being equal to well-known and "static" bonus comes at a cheap cost of reprinting 5 small cards. It reduces the gap between imperial/scum supports and rebel supports. In particular rClaw and eClaw and anyone providing power tokens would be more valuable. Also Hidden would become more valuable in relative terms. At this very moment people prefer focus over power tokens and hidden because focus gives + 1/2/3 accuracy and potentially 1 up to 4 damage (situational case of 1 damage + 3 pierce all hitting blocks). This is huge.

Reason for this is that focus has a fundamental impact on figures. A support with 1 focus gets a lot better than its deployment cost (GIA but FGIALMA - Focused Greedo Is A Lot More Awesome). In my opinion this isn't what was in designer's mind at very beginning.

So why not taking Hidden as a comparison term? It came later into the game, hence it was thought more and with data at hand. Hidden gives 1 surge and -2 opponent's accuracy. So why not making focus something like a "hidden condition for surge independent units"? I think 1 damage and +2 accuracy are a good trade-off (in average terms a focus as it is today is equal to 1.33 damage, 0.5 surge and 1.67 accuracy).

I believe this way we would have supports doing more support, high end units being more lethal (in relative terms) and BTW IG-88 would get a very little nerf (bored of defending against RRG?). I bet we would see units like Clawdites, Murne and Ko-Tun more often into lists.

4 hours ago, Golan Trevize said:

My idea about focus being equal to well-known and "static" bonus comes at a cheap cost of reprinting 5 small cards. It reduces the gap between imperial/scum supports and rebel supports. In particular rClaw and eClaw and anyone providing power tokens would be more valuable. Also Hidden would become more valuable in relative terms. At this very moment people prefer focus over power tokens and hidden because focus gives + 1/2/3 accuracy and potentially 1 up to 4 damage (situational case of 1 damage + 3 pierce all hitting blocks). This is huge.

Reason for this is that focus has a fundamental impact on figures. A support with 1 focus gets a lot better than its deployment cost (GIA but FGIALMA - Focused Greedo Is A Lot More Awesome). In my opinion this isn't what was in designer's mind at very beginning.

So why not taking Hidden as a comparison term? It came later into the game, hence it was thought more and with data at hand. Hidden gives 1 surge and -2 opponent's accuracy. So why not making focus something like a "hidden condition for surge independent units"? I think 1 damage and +2 accuracy are a good trade-off (in average terms a focus as it is today is equal to 1.33 damage, 0.5 surge and 1.67 accuracy).

I believe this way we would have supports doing more support, high end units being more lethal (in relative terms) and BTW IG-88 would get a very little nerf (bored of defending against RRG?). I bet we would see units like Clawdites, Murne and Ko-Tun more often into lists.

This is a pretty interesting idea. I've always hated how good focus is, so any nerf to it seems reasonable to me.

I think the game is a lot more interesting when figures generally live through at least 1 attack.

2 hours ago, DTDanix said:

I think the game is a lot more interesting when figures generally live through at least 1 attack.

This is so true! Most of the times we use focus to make supports exceeding the 66% chances of dealing 5 damages (7 damages for damage dealers). In other words we want to one-shot common units with high chance (I say 66% because for my risk attitude 2 out of 3 times is good enough). A clear example is Greedo vs Black die. It deals 5 or more damage 17% of times, but it gets to 72% when focused. So we will systematically try to focus Greedo and try an attack we would have never done without focus. That additional green die added a lot more variance to the roll and increased variance means increased luck involved into the game. We've seen how tight have been matches at last worlds, often end result depended on someone drawing a card or rolling that one surge/damage. We really want to reduce variance but at the same time keep the matches spectacular like we've seen in last worlds.

My proposal of focus equal to 1 damage + 2 accuracy would make Greedo deal 5 damages against a Black die (e.g. rRiot) 53% of the times. A pro-player would add Hera, a power token or perhaps Positioning Advantage to mitigate randomness and overcome the unlucky 30% of the cases where Greedo dealt 4 damage. Also a desperate player would attempt the attack and cross fingers. In fact 17% is not a choice but 53% is still better than a coin toss! Instead 72% is clearly a no-brainer... Every time someone takes the risk he/she will make everything more spectacular.