https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2018/5/9/a-few-maneuvers/

Anything actually new?

Well, the article is.

They verified my impression of how barrel rolls have been changed, which is different than how people have been assuming, but is only relevant for medium based ships, but they move slightly further forward (or back) than people have been thinking.

edit: i'm an idiot. I thought the spot for the thumb to twist the dial was the area denoting the chosen maneuver, so I thought you would choose sets of three maneuvers at a time and pick from one of them or something when the dial was turned. I didn't noticed the giant glaring arrow on the dial.

4 minutes ago, Varulfr said:

I've been looking at the dials... anybody else notice that it looks like you select a range of maneuvers instead of just one? It looks like the opening that denotes the chosen maneuver is open to three distinct choices no matter what you twist it to. Could this mean that you select a range, then choose one from that range when you have to actually move?

Or am I over-analyzing this? Or maybe this has already been noticed and I'm slow?

The other previews that have a better picture of the dials show that on the opposite side of the window is an arrow.

I suspect the arrow indicates the selected move, and the window is there for ergonomics of spinning the inner wheel.

What you describe is something that would be entirely new and different. That would seem to merit mention in the article which is the subject of this thread. In the 2nd Edition games which were recorded by TC, by BoLS, and by FFG during World Championships, selecting a maneuver worked just as it does in 1st edition. You may indeed be over analyzing.

A note of Criticism.

While I think it is great that they are adding the newer maneuvers added later in the game I am cautious of opening up the dial too much with more green blue maneuvers. The maneuver dial gives each ship its handling. Open them up too much and each ship feels like the handle the same. I guess the red actions may compensate for it a little. Also stiffer barrelroll means you can't just slide your way into or out of firing arc. Still it was bad enough the factions sort of homogenized into nearly the same. Last thing we need is a TIE Advance to fly just like a TAP, or even B-wings like TIE Bombers.

5 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

Last thing we need is a TIE Advance  to fly just like a TAP

Well first, hey, what does the "TA" in "TAP" stand for? Just sayin'.

Second, I think this is just old ships catching up with new ships. Conservative design was common in early X-Wing, both the x1 and the X-Wing are ships of a similar generation and capability so they easily have similar movesets - the addition of very important Blue moves and more 180 options keeps their ability to move more smooth, more in line with later ships but also doesn't telegraph them. Plus red actions are now a thing, some older ships probably need a blue or two added to give them some more options to shed stress. Remember, there's no need to worry about if PTL or something will let ships run too wild with blues. Rebel ships with Astros still have an advantage in that they can take R4 to decrease the difficulty of all 1-2 speed "standard" moves, though.

Just now, UnitOmega said:

Well first, hey, what does the "TA" in "TAP" stand for? Just sayin'.

Second, I think this is just old ships catching up with new ships. Conservative design was common in early X-Wing, both the x1 and the X-Wing are ships of a similar generation and capability so they easily have similar movesets - the addition of very important Blue moves and more 180 options keeps their ability to move more smooth, more in line with later ships but also doesn't telegraph them. Plus red actions are now a thing, some older ships probably need a blue or two added to give them some more options to shed stress. Remember, there's no need to worry about if PTL or something will let ships run too wild with blues. Rebel ships with Astros still have an advantage in that they can take R4 to decrease the difficulty of all 1-2 speed "standard" moves, though.

They still had different dials which made TAP fly differently than TIE Advanced. I'm just saying they should do their best to keep the maneuver profile for each ship unique.

Don't get me wrong, I am well aware that maneuver creep was the biggest problem the X-wing had (bigger than Biggs ability). Also that the TAP had a superior dial to the TIE Advanced. I am all for the T-rolls and S-loops on the ships from Wave 1-4. The A-wing absolutely needs them. I am just concerned about more blues and the wider range of stress maneuvers. PTL is a thing of the past but more red maneuvers are simply more reversal maneuvers (>90 degrees) and because of more of these reversal options I don't exactly see the need for more stress reducing maneuvers. The game needs to go back to the dials so if you guessed the wrong red maneuver, the next blue maneuver should be punishing in some degree or you cough it up on a white. If you give out too many maneuvering options the game will fall down to only dice and dials selection in planning will again be trivial.

Bringing the game back to the dials does not mean give every movement options available no mater what ship you fly. It means ensuring that dial selection matters. More Red difficulty reversal maneuvers does exactly that. More stress removing blue maneuvers removes the need for careful planning and positioning.

We got Predator spoiled. Don’t know if we had that before.

i just wish there was options on both sides of the BR, ie "front/mid/back to front/mid/back" instead of the now compulsory "mid to front/mid/back" would have given 2 more effective options

(5 instead of 3) still regulated but more options

Do we know if medium base barrel rolls are executed with a vertical or horizontal template?

Small base style or large base style?

1 minute ago, NoZone said:

Do we know if medium base barrel rolls are executed with a vertical or horizontal template?

Small base style or large base style?

Medium bases barrel roll the same way large bases do.

The TA in TAP stands for "TIE Adventurous". And as Vader still can't perform a 1 turn, much less shed stress on it, I think we can still say that the TAP and the x1 fly differently.

50 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

They still had different dials which made TAP fly differently than TIE Advanced. I'm just saying they should do their best to keep the maneuver profile for each ship unique.

Tap had 1 turn greens and a native boost. Those two plus PTL let the TAP do things an Advanced could never imagine. A ship is more than it's dial. Unless it's a Jumpmaster.

Jumpmaster having a good dial now?

Did they just walk back the barrel roll so it can reposition forward and backward a bit? Pretty sure there was none of that in the 2.0 play through on Team Convent's video.

14 minutes ago, Mep said:

Jumpmaster having a good dial now?

Did they just walk back the barrel roll so it can reposition forward and backward a bit? Pretty sure there was none of that in the 2.0 play through on Team Convent's video.

I don't remember it from t he gameplay video either but it's not exactly news, the details of the 2.0 barrel roll were spoiled within a day or two of the announcement.

18 minutes ago, nexttwelveexits said:

I don't remember it from t he gameplay video either but it's not exactly news, the details of the 2.0 barrel roll were spoiled within a day or two of the announcement.

Yes they were, but FFG didn’t do a very good job of explaining them, and there was a lot of confusion about how they actually worked.

See here, for example

1 hour ago, Marinealver said:

A note of Criticism.

While I think it is great that they are adding the newer maneuvers added later in the game I am cautious of opening up the dial too much with more green blue maneuvers. The maneuver dial gives each ship its handling. Open them up too much and each ship feels like the handle the same. I guess the red actions may compensate for it a little. Also stiffer barrelroll means you can't just slide your way into or out of firing arc. Still it was bad enough the factions sort of homogenized into nearly the same. Last thing we need is a TIE Advance to fly just like a TAP, or even B-wings like TIE Bombers.

If they start throwing lots of blue on B-wing and Bomber dials, I'll be worried. If the X-wing had blue turns, I'd be concerned. The two dials they revealed were horribly clunky for ships that should be capable dogfighters. I'm betting A-wings and TIE Interceptors get some S-Loops to go with their blue turns and otherwise stay the same. I'm very curious about the M3-A. Will the Scyk fly like an interceptor?

Did the Y-wing dial change?

1 hour ago, nexttwelveexits said:

Medium bases barrel roll the same way large bases do.

Ouch. Sorry misthunter.

1 hour ago, Marinealver said:

A note of Criticism.

While I think it is great that they are adding the newer maneuvers added later in the game I am cautious of opening up the dial too much with more green blue maneuvers. The maneuver dial gives each ship its handling. Open them up too much and each ship feels like the handle the same. I guess the red actions may compensate for it a little. Also stiffer barrelroll means you can't just slide your way into or out of firing arc. Still it was bad enough the factions sort of homogenized into nearly the same. Last thing we need is a TIE Advance to fly just like a TAP, or even B-wings like TIE Bombers.

To a certain extent, making the dials unique is what caused some of the problems in V1. IMHO, the same class of ships should have the same maneuvers. Not necessarily the same difficulty or same straight speed but the X-wing and Khiraxz should have a similar dial for all the 1-3 speed maneuvers.

13 minutes ago, gamblertuba said:

Did the Y-wing dial change?

Y-Wing dial now has blue speed 1 banks. Otherwise it stayed the same.

Just now, Emrico said:

Y-Wing dial now has blue speed 1 banks. Otherwise it stayed the same.

That sounds just about perfect. 2 Blue maneuvers is not nearly enough.

How many times will I need to type/say blue maneuver until it becomes normal?

8 minutes ago, Stoneface said:

To a certain extent, making the dials unique is what caused some of the problems in V1. IMHO, the same class of ships should have the same maneuvers. Not necessarily the same difficulty or same straight speed but the X-wing and Khiraxz should have a similar dial for all the 1-3 speed maneuvers.

but why?

i don't understand why every ship in the same class (this is arbitrary as we have no classes of ships in x-wing... so the whole thing falls apart right here) should fly identically.

Ask a WWII pilot if a spitfire flew the same as a Messerschmidt, for the few people who have flown both the answer is a resounding NO.

5 hours ago, Icelom said:

but why?

i don't understand why every ship in the same class (this is arbitrary as we have no classes of ships in x-wing... so the whole thing falls apart right here) should fly identically.

Ask a WWII pilot if a spitfire flew the same as a Messerschmidt, for the few people who have flown both the answer is a resounding NO.

Not identical. A better comparison, for me, would be the Zero and P40. They both could barrel roll. The Zero was faster in straight flight, could turn tighter and climb faster. The negatives, compared to the P40 were no armor plating and no self-sealing fuel tank. The advantage the P40 had excluding the Zero' s weaknesses was it could outdive the Zero. This comparison is pretty close to the original Tie and X-wing.

Health wise, the 3 to 5 looks ok. The shields of the X-wing equating to the P40' s armor. Speed wise,the Tie should be able to do a white 5 straight where the X-wing would be limited to a white 4 straight. The 1-3 straights should be green with a green 4 for the Tie.

Both ships should be able to pull off the 1-3 banks. Green for the Tie but only 1-2 green for the X-wing.

Turns are more difficult to compare. Where the Zero could out turn the P40 at all speeds, not giving the X-wing turns would be ridiculous for game balance. You could omit the 1 turn on the X-wing to show that the Tie is more maneuverable or give the 1 turn to the X-wing and make it red. Play testing to determine game balance.

To take the comparison a little further and perhaps give some logic to adding a defense die at range 3 for primary weapons, the wing mounted guns of WE II aircraft were regulated to converge at a certain distance. Much like focusing the sun with a magnifying glass. An easy buff to the Tie would be to disallow the extra green die when defending against the Tie. There are several other craft in the game that would benefit from hull mounted armament so it would have to be limited to "Tie Only".

The X-wing and the Tie were the frontline fighters of their time much like the Zero and the P40. They were intended to do the same job, air to air combat, but design philosophies were a little different. The Zero trading survivability for maneuverability. I see no problem giving these two ships the same or very similar dials and only differing in difficulty. Obviously this comparison doesn't work for all the ships in the game but the logic behind grouping similar ships makes sense. This way it's easier to avoid a bomber having a better dial than a fighter.