2 minutes ago, Parakitor said:

we will almost certainly have enough of each generic ship card and token for all the dials.

Hang on Parakitor - while I agree with the have enough ship pilot cards, we still have no information regarding ship insert tokens. If a ship has 2 uniques and 2 generics and 2 dials, we have ZERO information that we'll get 3 cardboard base tokens. We may get U1/G1, U2/G2 and that's it. Or we may get that third G1/G2 to actually provide everything we need.

Also, Imps have the fewest ships, but they also have the most generics. The TIE/ln has been confirmed to have 3 generics again, and should also have the most uniques. Likewise the Interceptor is the only ship with 4 generics in v1.0, so expect it to come with at least 3 generics in v2.0. So when you start looking at those things, the number of generic pilots needed goes up quite quickly (just those generic pilot changes adds another 7 pilot cards, and you can expect that if the T65 has 4 pilots, the TIE/ln will have 6, adding another 4 pilots to bring it up to 105).

44 minutes ago, evanger said:

Generics will be on the flip sides of unique pilots base tokens.

I would bet the only contents people will want to trade from the conversion kits are for ships they do not own.

That is presumptuous and makes no sense.

if we say they have 2x generics per ship and 2x aces (some might be different). Wont it make more sense to have the aces on one piece back to back and then generics on another back to back. that way if you have say 3x ships in the conversion pack you only need to include 1x aces base (back to back) and 3x generic bases (back to back). if you had the aces with generics on their backs then you would need to include a whole bunch of redundant cardboard, if this happens to be the case then trading is even easier as we would have extra aces bases.

I cant even follow your train of thought care to explain it for me? encase i am missing something?

Edit: @Khyros explained what i was doing wrong with my logic. Flying both aces at once does not work with my system, thanks for explaining Khyros.
(left my original post up for historians...)

@Khyros yep, just noticed the flaw in my quick math. You make some good points. I still think it will work out to allow us to fly all of one type of generic per ship, but I have no math to back that up. Maybe factions with a lot of ship cards get fewer upgrade cards? I saw @wurms point out on the other thread that Rebel and Imperial need 5 packs of sleeves, while Scum needs 6, so that's interesting.

And regarding ship tokens, I can't even comprehend that, so I'm going with faith that if we have the pilot cards and dials, we'll have the shop times we need. I'll leave the calculations to you.

10 minutes ago, Icelom said:

That is presumptuous and makes no sense.

if we say they have 2x generics per ship and 2x aces (some might be different). Wont it make more sense to have the aces on one piece back to back and then generics on another back to back. that way if you have say 3x ships in the conversion pack you only need to include 1x aces base (back to back) and 3x generic bases (back to back). if you had the aces with generics on their backs then you would need to include a whole bunch of redundant cardboard, if this happens to be the case then trading is even easier as we would have extra aces bases.

I cant even follow your train of thought care to explain it for me? encase i am missing something?

What you're missing is if you want to fly both aces at once... If they're on the back of each other, then you *will not* be able to do that.

Actually, if we go with your example (2G, 2U) the best way to do it requires 3 cardboards - U1/G1, U2/G2, G1/G2. No matter what combination you wish you run, you have 2 copies of the cardboard to accomplish it. If you have 3 dials for the 2G, 2U scenario, then you need a 4th cardboard that is G1/G2.

Just now, Icelom said:

That is presumptuous and makes no sense.

if we say they have 2x generics per ship and 2x aces (some might be different). Wont it make more sense to have the aces on one piece back to back and then generics on another back to back. that way if you have say 3x ships in the conversion pack you only need to include 1x aces base (back to back) and 3x generic bases (back to back). if you had the aces with generics on their backs then you would need to include a whole bunch of redundant cardboard, if this happens to be the case then trading is even easier as we would have extra aces bases.

I cant even follow your train of thought care to explain it for me? encase i am missing something?

Very little redundancy, actually. Take, for example, the TIE/ln, if it gets six uniques, (labeled U1, U2, U3, etc.) and three types of generic, the cardboard would be distributed as such: U1/G1, U2/G2, U3/G3, U4/G1, U5/G2, U6/G3, G1/G2, G2/G3, G1/G3. No redundancy, no shortages, just perfection.

14 minutes ago, Icelom said:

That is presumptuous and makes no sense.

if we say they have 2x generics per ship and 2x aces (some might be different). Wont it make more sense to have the aces on one piece back to back and then generics on another back to back. that way if you have say 3x ships in the conversion pack you only need to include 1x aces base (back to back) and 3x generic bases (back to back). if you had the aces with generics on their backs then you would need to include a whole bunch of redundant cardboard, if this happens to be the case then trading is even easier as we would have extra aces bases.

I cant even follow your train of thought care to explain it for me? encase i am missing something?

I believe he is right, isn't this how the aces packs did it? I think makes more sense to be able to field the uniques u want (cause they are in separate cardboard) than being able to field a generic of choice in combination of other uniques (cause you kept the generics back to back as u suggested). Maybe I'm wrong though.

1 minute ago, Khyros said:

What you're missing is if you want to fly both aces at once... If they're on the back of each other, then you *will not* be able to do that.

Actually, if we go with your example (2G, 2U) the best way to do it requires 3 cardboards - U1/G1, U2/G2, G1/G2. No matter what combination you wish you run, you have 2 copies of the cardboard to accomplish it. If you have 3 dials for the 2G, 2U scenario, then you need a 4th cardboard that is G1/G2.

Thank you, i total missed that in my head! (i just did one ship and extrapolated it.... )

Well this does make it more complex, the trade market might not be supper large then. I still think the secondary market will be people will purchase kits and break them down but some of the ships are not going to be cheap.

Thank you.

24 minutes ago, Parakitor said:

@Khyros

EDIT : Yes, I went with just 2 uniques per ship, but I just realized the TIE advanced has 4 pilots out the gate, which is still less than the 6 we have in first edition. Anyway, the numbers are probably much higher, and I'm starting to wonder if we will have enough generics. Hmm...I'll leave this kind of speculation to other people.

I think we have more than 4, though some may be in the core or first wave expac. I can't recall if they said the conversion kits will have everything that's in wave 1 or not.

For the TIE, I'm aware of Obsidian and Black squads, Iden, Scourge, Night Beast, Howlrunner, and Valen Rudor. I'd be willing to bet there's a fifth. (I got this info from here. )

Just now, Icelom said:

Thank you, i total missed that in my head! (i just did one ship and extrapolated it.... )

Well this does make it more complex, the trade market might not be supper large then. I still think the secondary market will be people will purchase kits and break them down but some of the ships are not going to be cheap.

Thank you.

Well, the good news is if you have 3 ships and the upgrade pack comes with just 2, so you decide to buy a second kit, you should be able to resell both unique pilot cards, a pair of generics, and the ship cardboard of U1/G1, and U2/G2 (and the 4th dial), providing someone with everything they need to run a single ship. Same thing if you have 4 ships and it upgrades 3, you keep a single G1/G2 ship cardboard, a single dial, and a set of generics, selling off the rest.

And if it upgrades 3 and you just have 2, you can sell the extra dial, pair of generic pilot cards, and the G1/G2 cardboard, allowing someone who has 4 to buy everything he needs for that last generic. (And obviously he won't be able to run any uniques since you're keeping all of that stuff, but that's okay because he presumably already bought an upgrade kit and just needed an additional ship upgrade).

4 minutes ago, Ixidor said:

I think we have more than 4, though some may be in the core or first wave expac. I can't recall if they said the conversion kits will have everything that's in wave 1 or not.

For the TIE, I'm aware of Obsidian and Black squads, Iden, Scourge, Night Beast, Howlrunner, and Valen Rudor. I'd be willing to bet there's a fifth. (I got this info from here. )

Known thus far:

TIE Fighter:

• Mauler Mithel - (Crush the Rebellion) While you perform an attack at attack range 1, roll 1 additional attack die ____________________________________
• Gideon Hask - (Crush the Rebellion)
• Del Meeko - (Crush the Rebellion)
• Howlrunner - (Crush the Rebellion) While a friendly ship at range 0-1 performs a primary attack, that ship may reroll 1 attack die.
• Scourge Skutu - (Crush the Rebellion) While you ____________________________________
• Night Beast (core)- (The Future of Star Wars Youtube)
• Valen Rudor – (Worlds Display Case)
• Iden Versio (core)- (X Wing Second Edition) Before a Friendly TIE/ln fighter at range 0-1 would suffer 1 or more damage, you may spend 1 [Energy]. If you do, prevent that damage.
• Obsidian Squadron Pilot - (Crush the Rebellion)
• Black Squadron Pilot - (X Wing 2.0 Teaser Trailer)
• Academy Pilot – (Worlds Demo Lie Stream)

We know a bit more about the X Wing since it's been unboxed, but it has 4 uniques in the box, and there are two more that we know about from the core set. If we followed that same logic, one would think that there's probably a 9th named TIE/ln pilot we don't know about yet, 3 from the core, and 6 from the expansion. Which means that the TIE/ln has 18 pilot cards in the conversion kit itself. Coupled with 4 TIE/x1 uniques and the 2x2 TIE/x1 generics (unconfirmed, but logical), and 26 of the pilot cards are already accounted for between the W1 ships.

2 hours ago, Khyros said:

Known thus far:

TIE Fighter:

• Mauler Mithel - (Crush the Rebellion) While you perform an attack at attack range 1, roll 1 additional attack die ____________________________________
• Gideon Hask - (Crush the Rebellion)
• Del Meeko - (Crush the Rebellion)
• Howlrunner - (Crush the Rebellion) While a friendly ship at range 0-1 performs a primary attack, that ship may reroll 1 attack die.
• Scourge Skutu - (Crush the Rebellion) While you ____________________________________
• Night Beast (core)- (The Future of Star Wars Youtube)
• Valen Rudor – (Worlds Display Case)
• Iden Versio (core)- (X Wing Second Edition) Before a Friendly TIE/ln fighter at range 0-1 would suffer 1 or more damage, you may spend 1 [Energy]. If you do, prevent that damage.
• Obsidian Squadron Pilot - (Crush the Rebellion)
• Black Squadron Pilot - (X Wing 2.0 Teaser Trailer)
• Academy Pilot – (Worlds Demo Lie Stream)

We know a bit more about the X Wing since it's been unboxed, but it has 4 uniques in the box, and there are two more that we know about from the core set. If we followed that same logic, one would think that there's probably a 9th named TIE/ln pilot we don't know about yet, 3 from the core, and 6 from the expansion. Which means that the TIE/ln has 18 pilot cards in the conversion kit itself. Coupled with 4 TIE/x1 uniques and the 2x2 TIE/x1 generics (unconfirmed, but logical), and 26 of the pilot cards are already accounted for between the W1 ships.

Holy cow, that's a lot of TIE pilots! Are we still sure about Del Meeko and Gideon Hask? They are no longer in the Crush the Rebellion article. Were they seen somewhere else? I imagined we'd get three pilots in the core, and three in the expansion pack like last time. Without those two pilots, that's 3 in the core, 3 in the pack. Maybe they are bonus cards in the expansion pack for a solid eight named pilots. Seems reasonable.

EDIT: Thanks to CMDR Ytterium for pointing out where those "missing" pilots were located in the article. Now I am very sure they are included in the expansion pack, so we're likely getting 3 in the core and 5 in the expansion. But Khyros is right, there could be a 6th pilot in the expansion. We just don't know yet.

How upset would everyone be if they took some generics away from certain ship? We already have a few that are named pilots only. The Tie Advanced and the Adv Prototype could be some that would be ok without generic pilots, as they were elite/low production ships.

I would also be ok with some large ships not having a generic. Falcon, Firespray, Ghost, Houndstooth...

For the Interceptor at least they could easily drop down from 4 generics to 2 (keep Alpha and Saber) since I feel the Avenger and Royal Guard are redundant with the new initiative system and don't have a "fluff" reason to exist like Obsidian Squadron for the TIE/LN.

2 minutes ago, impspy said:

For the Interceptor at least they could easily drop down from 4 generics to 2 (keep Alpha and Saber) since I feel the Avenger and Royal Guard are redundant with the new initiative system and don't have a "fluff" reason to exist like Obsidian Squadron for the TIE/LN.

I think that is what we are going to see.

With compressed initiative (pilot skill) we really do not need more then 2 generics.

2 minutes ago, Icelom said:

I think that is what we are going to see. With compressed initiative (pilot skill) we really do not need more then 2 generics.

I agree on both counts. In addition to rules improvements, 2.0 is cutting down on both physical and design space clutter.

18 minutes ago, impspy said:

For the Interceptor at least they could easily drop down from 4 generics to 2 (keep Alpha and Saber) since I feel the Avenger and Royal Guard are redundant with the new initiative system and don't have a "fluff" reason to exist like Obsidian Squadron for the TIE/LN.

I think that depends on if they want to differentiate the Royal Guard, as their ships were modified quite a bit. Also, weren't a lot of them force users, or is that just dumb legends stuff?

34 minutes ago, Parakitor said:

Holy cow, that's a lot of TIE pilots! Are we still sure about Del Meeko and Gideon Hask? They are no longer in the Crush the Rebellion article. Were they seen somewhere else? I imagined we'd get three pilots in the core, and three in the expansion pack like last time. Without those two pilots, that's 3 in the core, 3 in the pack. Maybe they are bonus cards in the expansion pack for a solid eight named pilots. Seems reasonable.

they are in the prebuilt pilots section here:

2 hours ago, evanger said:

That is an interesting idea. In terms of the point system, granularity has increased. With PS, the opposite. Will it be harder to have differentiable new pilots?

I've been toying with generics in the v2 init system for a possible homebrew sepratist faction. My thought was, (in order of increasing cost)

Init 2 baseline cheap fighter (Cotrolled by command ship)

Init 1 superblocker (Manned by a B1)

Init 3 with elite (Independant droid brain)

Init 5 with elite (Advanced model)

Just to be clear, they mentioned the compressed PS/Initiative scale as a positive: "Now more named ships can fly more easily together."

Some of those unique TiE pilots maybe in the new core as well.

I wonder if FFG is going to cut the number of pilot cards by printing the generics on the back of the unique's.

Dual-sided cards make some sense, especially in the conversion kits. FFG can maximize the number of options available, and the pilot's themselves already have a faction icon and distinctive coloring, so it's not like the players need the big faction icon on the back of the card for anything.

14 minutes ago, papy72 said:

I wonder if FFG is going to cut the number of pilot cards by printing the generics on the back of the unique's.

Dual-sided cards make some sense, especially in the conversion kits. FFG can maximize the number of options available, and the pilot's themselves already have a faction icon and distinctive coloring, so it's not like the players need the big faction icon on the back of the card for anything.

That would be absolutely awful, and prevent a ton of potential builds, at least if you only buy the core and conversion kits. It would also get confusing during set up, if you ask me.

20 hours ago, ScummyRebel said:

To my knowledge, the only thing we know for sure about the conversion kits is the number of dials for each model type, plus an overall total of cards. We don’t even know how many of the known 1.0 pilots got ported over to 2.0

Regarding what they will include, the only thing I can guarantee is that someone will complain about it.

And that for every “someone,” 100 people will come unglued on them for having a contrary opinion.

Just now, Alpha17 said:

That would be absolutely awful, and prevent a ton of potential builds, at least if you only buy the core and conversion kits. It would also get confusing during set up, if you ask me.

Not at all! They can just print them with the same distribution as the ship tokens, U!/G1, U2/G2, G1/G2. Every combo is still possible.

1 minute ago, GLEXOR said:

Not at all! They can just print them with the same distribution as the ship tokens, U!/G1, U2/G2, G1/G2. Every combo is still possible.

I'd still find that annoying, as I'd suddenly have to worry about getting an extra token and card, rather than one or the other.