The 'Tallon Roll' introduced for the T-70 in the Force Awakens core box...

...is surely not the same (fictional, admittedly) manoeuvre described first in the Rebel Alliance Sourcebook back in 1990...

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Rebel_Alliance_Sourcebook

...which was a way of preventing overshooting one's target, and which was shown diagrammatically thus:

Wouldn't this have been reproduced in the game more faithfully, by simply regressing one's forward movement (at the end of the turn) by one base-width, and making this a red 'stress' move, rather than by rotating the ship ninety degrees at the end of the turn?

Because they're not trying to model that manoeuvre at all, they're just trying to find a canon name they can stick onto the manoeuvre they wanted to put in the game.

The real question is, will the give us a Corellian Slip in 2.0?

What spaceinvader said. The in-game manoeuvre is based on the move Poe makes in the force awakens on Takodana.

view the tallon roll as a sequence of two moves - where your prey turns and then goes straight, if you tallonroll and then turn left, you'll find it's pretty similar.

4 minutes ago, BVRCH said:

What spaceinvader said. The in-game manoeuvre is based on the move Poe makes in the force awakens on Takodana.

This, always made me throw up in my mouth a little.

Yeah, the answer is: it's Star Wars, logic doesn't matter, even fantasy logic. If Poe's ship could fly like that in atmosphere as it did on Takodana and not come apart, he would have died in the cockpit. After watching that, I knew they were making his charater the true force user spirit ghost guy; superman.

2 minutes ago, clanofwolves said:

This, always made me throw up in my mouth a little.

Yeah, the answer is: it's Star Wars, logic doesn't matter, even fantasy logic. If Poe's ship could fly like that in atmosphere as it did on Takodana and not come apart, he would have died in the cockpit. After watching that, I knew they were making his charater the true force user spirit ghost guy; superman.

lol

You know SW has antigravity, right? Any amount of realism goes right out the window when you can ignore g forces.

1 hour ago, thespaceinvader said:

Because they're not trying to model that manoeuvre at all, they're just trying to find a canon name they can stick onto the manoeuvre they wanted to put in the game.

What a shame. I once read that the enduring popularity of the Lord of the Rings trilogy springs in part from the many years Tolkien spent carefully weaving the work into a consistent, detailed, believable fabric.

Apparently Star Wars just makes it all up as it goes along.

1 minute ago, hismhs said:

Apparently Star Wars just makes it all up as it goes along.

Uh, yeah.

12 minutes ago, hismhs said:

What a shame. I once read that the enduring popularity of the Lord of the Rings trilogy springs in part from the many years Tolkien spent carefully weaving the work into a consistent, detailed, believable fabric.

Apparently Star Wars just makes it all up as it goes along.

Lol no.

Lord of the Rings is enduringly popular because it’s mythic, just like Star Wars.

The detailed world building is an incredible feat. But ask CS Lewis and the other inklings what they thought about it.

Edit: I now think my initial reaction overstates my case. My main point is that world building ALONE wouldn’t be enough to explain LotR’s popularity. C.S. Lewis was key in encouraging Tolkien to write STORIES in the world he created. And it was in drawing on the shared (real world) mythology that they loved that Tolkien was able to write a story that resonated with people. It’s the hint that the world continues existing beyond the immediate scene that makes world building so effective. And Star Wars has managed to achieve a similar thing in a more spontaneous, less planful way.

1 minute ago, hismhs said:

What a shame. I once read that the enduring popularity of the Lord of the Rings trilogy springs in part from the many years Tolkien spent carefully weaving the work into a consistent, detailed, believable fabric.

Apparently Star Wars just makes it all up as it goes along.

That’s the difference between a Professor in languages with decades of experience (and development of the universe before publishing) and some bloke fresh out of film school who fancied putting together a sci-fi film.

11 minutes ago, hismhs said:

What a shame. I once read that the enduring popularity of the Lord of the Rings trilogy springs in part from the many years Tolkien spent carefully weaving the work into a consistent, detailed, believable fabric.

Apparently Star Wars just makes it all up as it goes along.

You only just noticed? The fact that it was even a series was made up as Lucas went along.

13 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

You only just noticed? The fact that it was even a series was made up as Lucas went along.

Exactly.

In A New Hope Vader and Luke were unrelated.

In Empire Strikes Back Luke and Leia were unrelated.

Star Wars has been making it up as it went along since 1977.

33 minutes ago, HolySorcerer said:

Exactly.

In A New Hope Vader and Luke were unrelated.

In Empire Strikes Back Luke and Leia were unrelated.

Star Wars has been making it up as it went along since 1977.

George wrote many many drafts of the original movie script in the mid 70s and ended up with enough material for at least 3 movies, not to mention all the concept art from Mcquarrie and Johnson. The one brilliant idea George had was to shoot the movie with an action sequence already started, to draw the audience in immediately. He would later claim he was telling the middle part of the story with an eye towards future movies being set before and after. However it was just an accident of having copious amounts of background material from years of writing one movie script. With the talent and help of a legion of SFX geniuses, editors, actors, etc. it can be seen that George is truly one of history’s luckiest hacks.

3 minutes ago, GrimmyV said:

George wrote many many drafts of the original movie script in the mid 70s and ended up with enough material for at least 3 movies, not to mention all the concept art from Mcquarrie and Johnson. The one brilliant idea George had was to shoot the movie with an action sequence already started, to draw the audience in immediately. He would later claim he was telling the middle part of the story with an eye towards future movies being set before and after. However it was just an accident of having copious amounts of background material from years of writing one movie script. With the talent and help of a legion of SFX geniuses, editors, actors, etc. it can be seen that George is truly one of history’s luckiest hacks.

Agreed, Star Wars was successful despite George, not because of him.

2 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

lol

You know SW has antigravity, right? Any amount of realism goes right out the window when you can ignore g forces.

Inertial dampeners, don’t leave orbit without them. Every sci-fi franchise marketed to the masses will include several tropes for the convenience of the production of just to be cool:

artificial gravity (usually not spin-induced)

accelleration compensation

FTL

SOUND IN SPACE

visible ‘lasers’

and often paranormal mental abilities

Your suspension of disbelief will vary.

5 minutes ago, GrimmyV said:

Inertial dampeners, don’t leave orbit without them.

But don't turn them up too high. You might not know when you can hold it.

And, to the OP of the thread, the Barrel Roll action should have been named Tallon Roll from day one. Or failing that, the Correllian Slip. As it is, the B-roll is just...odd....if we are to assume it is the same maneuver we have on our world using airplanes, and it’s a very mundane name compared to Koigran(sp) Turns and Segnors Loops. Even SLAM takes on more meaning since it is an acronym for Sub-Light Accelleration Motor. Barrel roll? Do they still have barrels in that galaxy? Besides Astromech torsos that is.

3 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

But don't turn them up too high. You might not know when you can hold it.

Look, Porkins made it! Yay!

1 hour ago, GrimmyV said:

And, to the OP of the thread, the Barrel Roll action should have been named Tallon Roll from day one. Or failing that, the Correllian Slip. As it is, the B-roll is just...odd....if we are to assume it is the same maneuver we have on our world using airplanes, and it’s a very mundane name compared to Koigran(sp) Turns and Segnors Loops. Even SLAM takes on more meaning since it is an acronym for Sub-Light Accelleration Motor. Barrel roll? Do they still have barrels in that galaxy? Besides Astromech torsos that is.

You are spot on, GrimmyV. This I did not realise!

4 hours ago, clanofwolves said:

This, always made me throw up in my mouth a little.

Yeah, the answer is: it's Star Wars, logic doesn't matter, even fantasy logic. If Poe's ship could fly like that in atmosphere as it did on Takodana and not come apart, he would have died in the cockpit. After watching that, I knew they were making his charater the true force user spirit ghost guy; superman.

Star Wars is not what I look towards when it comes to hard, realistic sci-fi. It’s a space western... fantasy... with space wizards, and hollywood-logic WW 2 aerial dogfighting... in space.

If you want sci-fi where they’ve done the math, and almost everything but the drive engine follows the laws of science, then might I recommend The Expanse? There’s one part where a railgun’s recoil and expulsion of mass is specifically used to keep a ship in a stable orbit.

1 hour ago, hismhs said:

You are spot on, GrimmyV. This I did not realise!

In both these diagrams the attack vector seemed unchanged by the maneuver; shouldn't the attacker/defender switch positions? If not, it was a pointless expenditure of energy.

6 hours ago, clanofwolves said:

If Poe's ship could fly like that in atmosphere as it did on Takodana and not come apart, he would have died in the cockpit.

Would he? How powerful are the inertial dampeners and the artificial gravity? Are we assuming that ships with hyperdrives only have 21st-century G-force management technology?

It's intended to be used to stay behind someone who is turning across your line, tighter than you can turn with them normally while keeping guns on target. The T-Roll as represented in the game has exactly that utility, so it's not a bad kludge for a 2-dimensional representation of dogfighting

3 hours ago, GrimmyV said:

Look, Porkins made it! Yay!

Way to ruin the moment porkins!