But at least we don’t play Warhammer.

This little thing is the same cost as a conversation kit.

You think this is a good topic for a conversation?

(Bum tish)

oh raptor, you ignorant bastard

OBVIOUSLY you cannot tell how much VALUE you're getting out of that Commander Farsight over a conversion kit

see, it's Citadel FINE cast

that's $50 of quality that the FFG PEASANTS will never enjoy

There are reasons I don’t play 40k, and cost is one of them.

If X-Wing is even being mentioned in the same breath as Warhammer when it comes to cost, it’s a problem for me.

37 minutes ago, Danthrax said:

There are reasons I don’t play 40k, and cost is one of them.

If X-Wing is even being mentioned in the same breath as Warhammer when it comes to cost, it’s a problem for me.

Yeah "gw did it" is a terrible defense lol. But hey nerds gotta justify **** as opposed to admitting the truth.

It's got janky contents distribution for its price and stated goal. But We're nerd who've bought into a luxury product. Most of us will pay it. Some will go on about how great the deal is or how the company is being charitable. Others will go "yeah it's a ripoff but I've got more money than sense and it's better value than getting shitfaced."

Actually just mentioned in another thread. There's a lot of X-Wingers for whom this is their first (and probably only) foray into wargaming, and the whole constantly buying expansions model. Purely because it's Star Wars.
So this idea that "well GW do this which is waaaaaay worse and you should be happy it's not that bad" is a really crappy argument.

It's kinda like saying: "Assad has only gassed a few hundred people, Hitler did it to millions. Be glad we only have to deal with Assad"

Ok. But one thing vs. an entire factions worth of stuff. A buddy of mine even who plays Warhammer even said it’s a good deal. I mean, you need a $40 book for each army, and the cheapest thing in the store we found was $35. Plus, it seems like people who have large collections are madder (correct me if I’m wrong) than folks with small expansions because there aren’t enough things. But someone like me, who doesn’t own every expansion, is likely to get a great deal on named pilots and upgrades.

21 minutes ago, Stevey86 said:

Actually just mentioned in another thread. There's a lot of X-Wingers for whom this is their first (and probably only) foray into wargaming, and the whole constantly buying expansions model. Purely because it's Star Wars.
So this idea that "well GW do this which is waaaaaay worse and you should be happy it's not that bad" is a really crappy argument.

It's kinda like saying: "Assad has only gassed a few hundred people, Hitler did it to millions. Be glad we only have to deal with Assad"

first, congrats on making Godwin proud

second, no one's saying "you should be happy it's not that bad"

what gets my short hairs in a knot is when people claim that GW was somehow better when it came to changing editions

and my boy, if you're going to dredge up my memories of those dark days, then I'm going to have to use them to prove how goddang wrong you are

It's also the same price as an Armada capital ship, or a Most Wanted pack. It's only $10 more than a YV-666, Shadow Caster or Upsilon.

The question is... what system went through a conversion properly?

From what I can tell:

Attack Wing - effed it up

GW - keeps effing it up

Wizkids- effed it up again...oh and again

Malifaux - effed it up

thats just off the top of head

2 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

first, congrats on making Godwin proud

second, no one's saying "you should be happy it's not that bad"

what gets my short hairs in a knot is when people think that GW somehow employed better practices when it came to changing editions

and my boy, if you're going to dredge up my memories of those dark days, then I'm going to have to use them to prove how goddang wrong you are

I've never played a GW game and don't intend to.

But seriously, have a little trawl through this forum, you'll find my point made over time and time again.

Just because FFG has done something the same (or similar) as GW, but "not as bad", doesn't mean it's still not bad.

But for the record, I'd like to point out I'm all for 2nd Edition. So much broken stuff currently. I just hope they don't make the same mistakes again. Because I have no intention of buying into this a 3rd time.

Just now, Wiredin said:

The question is... what system went through a conversion properly?

From what I can tell:

Attack Wing - effed it up

GW - keeps effing it up

Wizkids- effed it up again...oh and again

Malifaux - effed it up

thats just off the top of head

Wasn't Attack Wing a WK game? But they lose out based on their prize support system, which involves giving entirely alternate game pieces that can only be won in tourneys.

Imagine if X-Wing had a PS10 Vader that could perform three actions instead of two for 32 points, but the only way to get one was to win a regional. That's Wizkids in a nutshell.

3 minutes ago, PhantomFO said:

Wasn't Attack Wing a WK game? But they lose out based on their prize support system, which involves giving entirely alternate game pieces that can only be won in tourneys.

Imagine if X-Wing had a PS10 Vader that could perform three actions instead of two for 32 points, but the only way to get one was to win a regional. That's Wizkids in a nutshell.

oh yes, it is wizkids. forgot about that... yea the WK prize support is "hey, winner gets a totally OP character/unit that can solo the average players whole collection". yea..it's stupid.

10 minutes ago, Wiredin said:

The question is... what system went through a conversion properly?

From what I can tell:

Attack Wing - effed it up

GW - keeps effing it up

Wizkids- effed it up again...oh and again

Malifaux - effed it up

thats just off the top of head

Privateer Press, I think

I guess you had to buy Prime mk 2/3 (depending on which edition you were transferring to) and you could buy the army books, but what you actually needed were unit cards that tracked their special rules and remaining health

they handled updates like FFG is handling 2.0, except they only need to provide cards for the units (so like pilot cards). so the faction packs, despite having people griping about card quantity, were actually very cheap

****, apparently they've nixed all that and have an online feature that lets you just straight print the cards out for free now

course it didn't address the rather annoying fact that Warmachine/Hordes really wanted to keep track of the front/back of models which was handled basically like Auzituck reinforce (180 degrees, either you were in the front "arc" of the model or you weren't)...but their bases didn't have any indication of where the front back/actually was.. .

but eh, minor gripe. It was a fun game and PP seems to be a really on the level company, just a pity the game has a learning curve like a brick wall and therefore a smaller-than-desirable local playerbase

Edition change is part of the gaming hobby. D&D is on fifth edition. The venerable Star Fleet Battles, unless I’m miscounting, is on their fourth edition (Captain’s), selling along side a halfway to fifth (the less crunchy and less rules-dense Federation Commander). In its short life, B5Wars went through two editions.

Not all of these transitions are handled well, but they are inevitable, especially in a game that has a long life.

All we can do is decide if we want to keep up with new content and buy in, or if the conversion isn’t worth it from our particular perspectives.

In my opinion, FFG has gone down a reasonable path to conversion that neither huge nor tiny collections will be served by. It’s a compromise option. Otherwise, either people with smaller conversions would be facing a choice to buy a huge box of 75% useless cardboard, or people with big collections would be facing even more undersized boxes and have to buy a lot more. More packaging, of course, would up the per unit cost.

Likely, the conversion kits are optimized for good but somewhat diverse list building from day one. Maybe you can’t do a full 8 TIE swarm, but the 6 from the starter plus conversion will not be insignificant, and leaves room for a centerpiece squad leader of some kind.

Under the circumstances, I think FFG handled this well enough that we can put away our pitchforks and torches.

6 minutes ago, MarekMandalore said:

Likely, the conversion kits are optimized for good but somewhat diverse list building from day one.

The conversion kits are really well done IMO. A bit pricey if you have enough of each ship for full spam. But enough for half (rounded up) of every ship per kit does make sense.

4 hours ago, sf1raptor said:

But at least we don’t play Warhammer.

This little thing is the same cost as a conversation kit.

Dude, it's Commander Farsight. COMMANDER FREAKIN' FARSIGHT!

What a name! I mean, you'd pay extra for a name like that. It's not like it's Talonbane Cobra or anything.