Since there's been a lot of discussions and arguments about the conversion kits and what they do or should contain, value, etc, I'm curious about people's collections and what ships they actually own versus what you get in a conversion kit.

I put together a google survey asking how many of each ship people want to convert. I'm only looking at standard 200 point play for a single player for the purposes of this survey, epic play or other non-standard larger games are a separate issue from what I'm looking at. If you're looking at converting 8 x-wings or 16 tie fighters so you and your buddy can both play generic swarms of the same ship against each other, that's again out of the scope of what I'm looking for (or more accurately, is essentially just 2 players looking at converting 4 x-wings and 8 tie fighters each, not one person looking at converting 8 and 16).

Link to the survey: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdev71exmw9eofic1i11rfLUN_1u4d8rgWGz8IilhNmsDyASg/viewform?usp=sf_link

My answer for the TIE Defender isn’t right as I answered three, but I have four.

Other than a third Y-wing, nearly all of my conversions will be achieved with the Conversion packs and starter. Then again, I'm not a a Tourney player, so my collection is mostly movie only, and just for fun.

7 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

My answer for the TIE Defender isn’t right as I answered three, but I have four.

That's why I specified that I'm only looking at how many of each ship people are looking to convert for standard play. While you may own 4 defenders, you can only actually fly 3 at a time in a standard game.

10 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:

That's why I specified that I'm only looking at how many of each ship people are looking to convert for standard play. While you may own 4 defenders, you can only actually fly 3 at a time in a standard game.

Fair.

6 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

Fair.

Basically, my thought is that the conversion kits appear to be mainly designed to convert ships for standard play based on the numbers included, and opening it up beyond that for epic etc is a whole different can of worms when you can run 8+ of any ship depending on the format.

I'm only looking to convert the amount that come in each faction kit (until epic is declared), so my answers won't help you in determining trends of excess/deficient ships vs dials. I have more ships than that for almost all cases (except most large scum, where I only have 1 of most of them).

32 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

My answer for the TIE Defender isn’t right as I answered three, but I have four.

Similarly, I have six TIE Interceptors. (That was the only one I couldn't accurately answer.)

2 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

Similarly, I have six TIE Interceptors. (That was the only one I couldn't accurately answer.)

Clearly, that is not enough! Get more! ( ;D )

24 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:

That's why I specified that I'm only looking at how many of each ship people are looking to convert for standard play. While you may own 4 defenders, you can only actually fly 3 at a time in a standard game.

So you're building invalid data into your survey purposefully. Why?

A husband and wife could easily need to convert four Defenders, six Interceptors, or 12 TIE fighters.

If you're looking at congruence between Conversion Feasibility and Actual Collection numbers, you're collecting invalid data.

If you're just sorta asking, "Hey, how many of each ship do you want to fly?" then just ask that.

Just now, Jeff Wilder said:

Similarly, I have six TIE Interceptors. (That was the only one I couldn't accurately answer.)

Yeah, the Defender is my only overage above standard play.

I should be pretty well covered. I will have an extra A-wing, Extra B-wing, and i think 2 extra T-65s. I'm not super worried about the 2 extra t65s considering Saw pack and the new core set though

4 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

So you're building invalid data into your survey purposefully. Why?

Because I'm looking at how the conversion kits work out for standard play. I mean, I guess I could update the max numbres to reflect double what comes in a conversion kit instead, which would cover SabineKey's fourth defender and your sixth interceptor, but would also drop the hwk and y-wing down to 4, which cuts off anyone who has more than 4 of either of those.

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A husband and wife could easily need to convert four Defenders, six Interceptors, or 12 TIE fighters.

Which is 2 players converting ships, not one. So it would essentially be two entries of 2 defenders, 3 interceptors and 6 fighters. 1 conversion kit each covers the defenders and interceptors, as well as a lot of the tie fighters.

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If you're looking at congruence between Conversion Feasibility and Actual Collection numbers, you're collecting invalid data.

If you're just sorta asking, "Hey, how many of each ship do you want to fly?" then just ask that.

As I said, I'm only looking for standard 200 point games right now. If you're flying epic, that's a different story. You can't fly more than 3 defenders in a list at one time. You can't fly more than 5 interceptors in a list a time. As far as standard play goes, it doesn't matter if you have 6 defenders if you cna't field more than 3 at a time.

9 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:

Because I'm looking at how the conversion kits work out for standard play. I mean, I guess I could update the max numbres to reflect double what comes in a conversion kit instead, which would cover SabineKey's fourth defender and your sixth interceptor, but would also drop the hwk and y-wing down to 4, which cuts off anyone who has more than 4 of either of those.

I just ... what? Why not just collect the data? You're deliberately warping the data. You don't see that?

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Which is 2 players converting ships, not one. So it would essentially be two entries of 2 defenders, 3 interceptors and 6 fighters. 1 conversion kit each covers the defenders and interceptors, as well as a lot of the tie fighters.

OhmyGooood. Just. Collect. The. Data.

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You can't fly more than 3 defenders in a list at one time. You can't fly more than 5 interceptors in a list a time. As far as standard play goes, it doesn't matter if you have 6 defenders if you cna't field more than 3 at a time.

Of course it matters. It doesn't matter if I'm flying my Interceptors or me and a friend are flying my Interceptors. It's still my collection, and it's still reasonable to gather the data for my collection to compare it to the means that are being offered to convert my collection.

Just collect the data. The only reason for you to decide you're the gatekeeper for "who has a reasonable collection and who doesn't" is ... well, no, there is no reason for you to do that.

You seem to be under the impression that what I'm raising as a concern is the number of CKs required to convert a collection. That is not my concern; at least not directly. My concern is that the CKs (Imperial especially) are wildly imbalanced when compared to actual, real-world, collections.

If you absolutely must know why I care that CKs are balanced, ****, chalk it up to "fewer trees destroyed to make them, if they're efficient." The reason is irrelevant. Just collect the data.

I added in the ships I am trading my scum stuff for on there...but it is done

I went ahead and updated max numbers to b edoulbe what's include din the conversion kit, so it can easier reflect people that own more than what you can run but won't necessarily want to trade or sell extras beyond that.

Responses can be edited if you go back to the link to update numbers.

3 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:

I went ahead and updated max numbers

Thank you. Sincerely.

9 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

I just ... what? Why not just collect the data? You're deliberately warping the data. You don't see that?

OhmyGooood. Just. Collect. The. Data.

Of course it matters. It doesn't matter if I'm flying my Interceptors or me and a friend are flying my Interceptors. It's still my collection, and it's still reasonable to gather the data for my collection to compare it to the means that are being offered to convert my collection.

Just collect the data. The only reason for you to decide you're the gatekeeper for "who has a reasonable collection and who doesn't" is ... well, no, there is no reason for you to do that.

You seem to be under the impression that what I'm raising as a concern is the number of CKs required to convert a collection. That is not my concern; at least not directly. My concern is that the CKs (Imperial especially) are wildly imbalanced when compared to actual, real-world, collections.

If you absolutely must know why I care that CKs are balanced, ****, chalk it up to "fewer trees destroyed to make them, if they're efficient." The reason is irrelevant. Just collect the data.

Updating to reflect max numbers in two kits does indeed make sense since it’ll affect what people want to trade or sell as I said above. I stand by not caring as much about supporting multiple players or epic play, etc in this survey.

My guess is that the conversion kits were designed as they were by ffg to get players up and running and able to play standard games again. You can buy them to get epic stuff as well, but will likely be far less balanced for that.

I’m just curious how they work out for standard play itself based on what people want to convert for that. As you go beyond standard lists (or more players) it’s more likely to get more unbalanced (for any faction probably)

50 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:

While you may own 4 defenders, you can only actually fly 3 at a time in a standard game.

...in a standard 1.0 Edition game, right?

We don't actually know what the point costs will be either at launch (or after post-launch updates). Maybe four Defenders will be a thing in 2.0. (Unlikely, I know.)

My biggest hope is that at some point soon FFG does go to the trouble to collect this data, and then offer -- for, say, each of the four most popular ships in each faction -- a $5 individual conversion.

The CKs would still easily remain the best deal, but it would really go a long way toward fixing their inefficiency. (And while I'm no expert, I'd be surprised if it couldn't be done at a small profit, for that limited number of SKUs.)

12 minutes ago, Dax12387 said:

...in a standard 1.0 Edition game, right?

We don't actually know what the point costs will be either at launch (or after post-launch updates). Maybe four Defenders will be a thing in 2.0. (Unlikely, I know.)

This is true, though as you said, unlikely unelss they get big changes.

10 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

My biggest hope is that at some point soon FFG does go to the trouble to collect this data, and then offer -- for, say, each of the four most popular ships in each faction -- a $5 individual conversion.

The CKs would still easily remain the best deal, but it would really go a long way toward fixing their inefficiency. (And while I'm no expert, I'd be surprised if it couldn't be done at a small profit, for that limited number of SKUs.)

It would be nice if they did single conersions (or wave 1 faction conversions) for the wave 1 ships. Let players get more x-wings/y-wings/tie fighhters/tie advanced (assuming anyone actually wants more of that one) without buying conversion kits. The x-wing isn't AS bad off (for standard play) since if you buy the core + renegades and 1 conversion kit you can run 4 x-wings in a standard game, though you may have several unused models after getting 2 new ones. And I'm *hoping* (though i could well be wrong) that whatever they release in later waves to let players get the new pilots/upgrades that might come out with rereleased ships will include new dials for those ships as well, which would leave potentially reasonable way to get more conversions for those ships, though it would mean waiting for them to rerelease to get it. Obviously that doesn't work if they onlyu do the cards and bases and don't include dials as well (and I don't know if they've said either way).

And with epic or other bigger games, I especially agree that other official ways to get extras of the popular ships wihtout buying extra conversion kits or models would be ideal.

Your continued insistence that we don't need, and that it's unreasonable to want, conversions for all of our existing ships is, I guess, something we will simply need to talk around.

I want to convert my entire collection. IMO, FFG probably wants for me to convert my entire collection. Most people I know want to convert their entire collections.

FFG has planned very poorly to allow us the efficiently do that, even when increasing efficiency by joining together.

You can say you're fine with how it is, and I do not dispute that it is fine for you. (I really don't.)

That doesn't change the fact that it is inefficient and poorly designed ... unless the intent was, in fact, to force people to spend more money due to the inefficiency. (For the record, I personally doubt that is true, but it's getting easier to understand why some people do think it's true. IMO, FFG just did not do a good job -- or even make an attempt at -- collecting data reflecting real-world collections, and instead just shrugged and said, "Screw it, this looks about right." In other words, "Never attribute to malice ... ")

1 hour ago, VanderLegion said:

That's why I specified that I'm only looking at how many of each ship people are looking to convert for standard play. While you may own 4 defenders, you can only actually fly 3 at a time in a standard game.

That's only valid for players who are the only ones to use their collection. We can actually fly 6 at a time in a tournament, and we have, because there's 2 of us playing this game.

Our collection is not x2 a normal collection, nor is it funded through 2 salaries. You may disagree about the validity of it, but based on available stats as to how much X-wing is being sold, we're the norm, not the single player/owner.

1 minute ago, Jeff Wilder said:

Your continued insistence that we don't need, and that it's unreasonable to want, conversions for all of our existing ships is, I guess, something we will simply need to talk around.

I want to convert my entire collection. IMO, FFG probably wants for me to convert my entire collection. Most people I know want to convert their entire collections.

FFG has planned very poorly to allow us the efficiently do that, even when increasing efficiency by joining together.

You can say you're fine with how it is, and I do not dispute that it is fine for you. (I really don't.)

That doesn't change the fact that it is inefficient and poorly designed ... unless the intent was, in fact, to force people to spend more money due to the inefficiency. (For the record, I personally doubt that is true, but it's getting easier to understand why some people do think it's true. IMO, FFG just did not do a good job -- or even make an attempt at -- collecting data reflecting real-world collections, and instead just shrugged and said, "Screw it, this looks about right." In other words, "Never attribute to malice ... ")

Nowhere have I said that people don't want to convert their entire collections, or that it's unreasonable to want to. I just want to see how the conversion kits work out for standard play. How much do people need to get back into playing standard games with the ships they want. How many extra models do you have that could be run in a standard game but aren't converted if you buy 1 conversion kit. How many extra conversions do you get that you don't have models for if you buy 1-2 conversion kits.

As I said, my belief is that FFG designed the conversion kits around standard play, not around converting your entire collection for playing epic or fielding multiple lists from people sharing a collection. I want to see what the numbers look like compared to that. Maybe I'm completely off base and that isn't what they were looking at. Maybe the numbers say that it's horribly efficient even just for that. that's just what I'm looking at.

And you can absolutely even still have multiple people fielding ships from the same faction from one player's collection, it just may or may not allow them to run the SAME ships depending how many they want to fly.

If you don't like how I set it up, you're free to build your own survey to look at entire collections instead (as you suggested for people that wanted more data than just your google doc included. And I'll point out that from what I can tell your google doc also doesn't seem to show numbers of models beyond what would be covered by 2 conversion kits for anyone either...)

I for one would also be thrilled if FFG offered dial-and-cardboard-only conversions for their top selling 1.0 ships, even though it wouldn't actually help me personally. I think that's the single biggest "for the community" thing they could offer. Maybe a 2-pack for $5 or $6 dollars, ABXY-wings and TIE Fighter/Advanced/Interceptor/Defender, so that people who have at most 10-12 extras of the most popular ships in a faction can save a little bit of money on converting their ships. It's clear that this is going to be the case for A LOT of people.

However, even if this doesn't happen, I also think that there will still be some secondary market alternatives, especially once the individual ship expacks are released. I can imagine a lot of people upgrading their X/Y models and selling the cardboard, for example.