While considering my response to X-wing 2e, I've been thinking about my experience with other games I've been involved with that have switched editions. These experiences have really impacted my view of 2e.

I had been playing Warhammer 40k for about two years when it switched to 6e. I wasn't heavily invested in the game. I was really only playing 40k because it was the game of choice for my playgroup. The change to 6e wasn't a big deal, since I could get a second hand copy of the rules from the new starter for about $20. ( The fancy $70 rulebook was rediculous.) However, a year later a new codex came out for my army that was significantly more than the revious codex. My army was small enough that I wanted to put that money towards building my army. My play group had started playing another game I was more interested in, so I sold off my Warhammer army in favor of the new game.

My other experience was with Heroclix. While they have never officially gone to another addition, they realistically did it twice, most recently about a year ago. Both times, all older figures were 100% compatible with the new edition. The first time changes were made, it became very evident that while technically the older figures were compatible, the newer figures were far superior so older figures never saw play (much like X-wing 1e now). Since Heroclix already had a retirement system, iconic figures were frequently redesigned in newer sets, and I primarily played competitively, this didn't bother me. With the more recent change, however, I was strictly playing casually and really only collecting. My son had never shown interest in the game but loved X-wing, so when they recently redid the rules, I dropped the game in favor of X-wing.

TL;DR

My 40k experience taught me that games will change and it will cost to continue to play. New editions were inevitable, but it was my choice to continue to play.

Heroclix taught me that smaller changes rendered older stuff obsolete. I could either buy into the new edition that made my current collection playable (40k model) or end up buying the new stuff and never use my old stuff (Heroclix).

In both instances, it comes down to my play group and size of my collection. Since I mostly play X-wing at home, I want to continue to play. Since my collection is small enough that one of each conversion kit will cover it, switching for me is reasonable. If my collection was larger or this was my first experience with new editions, I would probably stop buying X-wing and continue to play with what I have.

Oh good lord, the **** I could go on and ON about as a Warhammer player

And I was young as **** when I got into it, but even then I could smell the bull from a mile away

My "favorite" version change moments were all the hidden costs you didn't see after buying the new book. For example, the then new Imperial Guard valkerie was so ******* busted that everyone bought 3 for $150-180

And then the space Marines had to lose their two special weapons per squad ability, necessitating more units to run the same amount of meltas/plasmas. But wait! Chapter codexs!!! They're just like the base codex...BUT BETTER

Long Fang spam wolves, hyper powered turbocharged blood angels vechiles that made the eldar weep with envy! Hope you like buying supplements and the units to match, because there was NO reason to stick to standard marines!

Not even getting into fantasy dropping point cost of units, increasing point cap of standard games, ******* around with army composition to make you buy new units and discard parts of your collection...all so you could eventually be rewarded with random bull terrain (you've entered a forest which then rolled a man eating plant...get ******) and charge distances that could see your Knight stop short of an enemy infantry block and await the slaughter like a bunch of blank stare lambs

**** that.

Xwing 2.0 is so reasonable in comparison that I'm more than willing to either convert slowly or downsize for the sake of rules changes that actually seem aimed at improving the game and the viability of your collection

In the most recent 40k expansion, I essentially lost my entire investment in my Tau army. The stuff that had previously been good was nerfed into the ground, Ghostkeels, Riptides and the Tau'nar (and none of them improved that much with the codex) and the stuff that was good was very boring. Sold the whole thing at a loss when the codex was close enough to see they weren't really changing much and only tangentially play 40k now.

Warmachines Mk2-3 transition went all in on War room so I finally had to buy my faction for the app, a $50 unit was rendered illegal and about $120-170 of units was nerfed into super meh territory.

Malifauxs mk2 transition was a little easier on the budget, just bought some update decks and new models that weren't ugly as sin. Probably 120 for everything, but it's also a tiny game (8-10 models) and I only own a small part of 1 faction.

I kind of gave up on trying to follow Guild Balls constant updates and new cards. I know the core rules, but have basically no idea how my faction plays or matches up at this point.

So, yeah, edition transitions are never cheap.

Well with GW (I played Fantasy) you got a bunch of this - both when the Edition changed and rebalanced the new rules, then again when they got around to your army book of choice. I generally enjoyed them - new problems are fun problems and it was always something of an experience to have the dice rolled on your collection to see what was going to be hot and what was going to be garbage. That also goes for new releases as well, by the way, for all the moaning about them trying to push new models with overpowerered rules, new stuff was just as likely to be crap than amazing.

On the other hand there was Age of Sigmar with their dumb round bases, nonsense new lore and stupid Sigmarines. I'm still rather bitter at that one (even though I was ready to dump the system for XWing fully anyway).

The Star Wars roleplaying games have gone through several editions under multiple publishers, and each new version has meant a new series of rulebooks and sourcebooks for about $30 a pop. The Shadowrun RPG and Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay have a similar history. This isn't my first time switching to a new edition and paying lots of moneys to play with the new stuff.

I played Battletech and later Mechwarrior.

Battletech 3rd edition is when I started (1995?) and ditched out with maximum tech. Luckily Battletech was fairly affordable. I was a kid, so buying strictly off my allowance and got the rule books as presents. I just bought a few lances of mechs and that was that. But the power creep was so bad and the min-maxing was outrageous that I started playing in stock only groups, and then eventually lost interest because... girls.

When I was playing mechwarrior I was done school and just started dating my now wife. She actually liked the game and played with me. When the transition went from Dark Age to Age of Destruction it wasn't too bad. rules we're clarified and the all the old mechs were still available. But the new mechs had such outrageous power creep that I spent hundreds on blind packs to get the crap I wanted. I even resorted to e-bay to get some of the tournament exclusives so I could actually compete with my local group. Eventually it was too costly to keep up (blind packs...) and wizkids keeps giving tournament winners better and better equipment. So I dib's out hard. I have buckets of these stupid mechs now that are still in my possession. I also recently found my original rule books, so neat.

So even comparing Mechwarrior's transition to X-Wing is kind of interesting... the new core set was around $60 if I recall. So lets call that a wash. but unlike X-wing everything was blind pack, so you could spend $100+ to add 3 or 4 of the new mechs (packs were $10-15 a piece I think) and you draw nothing but junk. I don't think I pulled one Atlas the whole time I played (biggest baddest mech in the game). For $100 in X-wing 2.0 land, I don't have to worry about blind pulls. I get everything I originally had to be as viable as they are now...and I get a new core with all the fancy parts.

The only other miniatures game I have played seriously was Dungeons and Dragons miniatures. I dropped it, hard, because the rules-set changed from pseudo-3.5 to pseudo-4.0, and the 4.0 rules were terrible.

I've been through many edition changes in RPGs. Notables:

Shadowrun - I updated happily from 1st edition in 1990 all the way to 4th. (It's on 5th now.) The new rules-set is fine, but I'm perfectly happy with 4th, and I don't play Shadowrun often.

D&D - Updated happily from 1st to 3.5. Dropped it hard at 4th in favor of Pathfinder, due to absolute disdain for the 4th edition rules. 5th looks good, but we're happy with PFRPG, so I'm not switching back.

PFRPG - A new edition was just announced a couple of months ago. Again, it looks good, but I own everything Pathfinder (those who aren't familiar would not believe how much stuff), so I'm looking forward to owning and playing a complete game, so I'm not updating. I own enough unused material to keep GMing and playing easily until I'm dead. As with D&D5, I may play or GM one-offs of PFRPG2, but my group isn't switching.

My first miniature game was Mage Knight 1st edition. It was a collectible game with blind purchases. I spent a lot of money to get enough of each unit that two people could build squads. This was an early Wiz Kids click game. When they announced 2nd edition they did not make anything compatible... I sold everything at a huge loss and have not purchased anything collectible from that company since.

Mansions of Madness was a wonderful experience between 1st and 2nd. There was a conversion kit inside the 2 ed box and every character and monster were still valid.

Descent IMHO improved with 2nd edition as far as balance and how the game flowed. The 1st ed conversion kit felt good, but when the Hero/Monster pacts came out, it was even better with the majority of the minis. Imperial Assult is practically a 3rd ed of this and they seem to learn with each edition.

I look forward to the new X-wing ed and all of new ships after the initial re-release. May pick up a few of the new sculps too.

I share the thoughts on Warhammer. Rules updates and codex updates rendering parts of your collection useless, while making new stuff op so you basically had to buy new models to stay competitive at all. If you stick long enough then the trash may rise again, but then you will have spent a lot on shelfware. The latest installment (WH40k 8th) released indexes which were codices light, later on you had to buy the codex. I think I spent about 100€ just for rules, indices and codex (that would be 1.5 factions, didn't bother to go on with renegades and stuck with chaos marines)

What is worse, at least that is my feeling, the whole factions balance changes with the ebb and flow of codex release. So you might end up starting a new faction since your old one is no more competitive. The investment for this is naturally higher than just upgrading paper for existing models.

Been through some RPG stuff, old Star Wars WEG books. Too long ago to begin figure out the costs, but I didn't convert to the new system after WEG went down. I did a character build in the new ruleset and was quite disappointed so never bought in.

Battletech, I started somewhere in around 95 as well... hung with it through conversion to the Total Warfare rulebook which was the next ruleset and replaced all the core rules that came before. New Edition! It was a $50 hardcover brick, but hey, aside from a few changes in how things worked all units before were valid. Of course, then I bought the $50 advanced rules, and the $50 optional rules, and the $50 custom unit building rules... They look good on the shelf though and I'm proud to have them.

44 minutes ago, DagobahDave said:

The Star Wars roleplaying games have gone through several editions under multiple publishers, and each new version has meant a new series of rulebooks and sourcebooks for about $30 a pop. The Shadowrun RPG and Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay have a similar history. This isn't my first time switching to a new edition and paying lots of moneys to play with the new stuff.

I'm still playing WotC Star Wars Saga edition.

19 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

The only other miniatures game I have played seriously was Dungeons and Dragons miniatures. I dropped it, hard, because the rules-set changed from pseudo-3.5 to pseudo-4.0, and the 4.0 rules were terrible.

I've been through many edition changes in RPGs. Notables:

Shadowrun - I updated happily from 1st edition in 1990 all the way to 4th. (It's on 5th now.) The new rules-set is fine, but I'm perfectly happy with 4th, and I don't play Shadowrun often.

D&D - Updated happily from 1st to 3.5. Dropped it hard at 4th in favor of Pathfinder, due to absolute disdain for the 4th edition rules. 5th looks good, but we're happy with PFRPG, so I'm not switching back.

PFRPG - A new edition was just announced a couple of months ago. Again, it looks good, but I own everything Pathfinder (those who aren't familiar would not believe how much stuff), so I'm looking forward to owning and playing a complete game, so I'm not updating. I own enough unused material to keep GMing and playing easily until I'm dead. As with D&D5, I may play or GM one-offs of PFRPG2, but my group isn't switching.

RPGs are interesting. Since they are strictly casual, it is easy to stay with older editions. With a good GM, the rules hardly matter.

I've played DnD for 10 years across several additions and several other tabletop RPGs. I have two versions of Twilight Imperium sitting on my shelf. I am also big into boardgames.

I will probably buy into 2.0 50 dollars for a box of cardboard isn't something that bother me. What will mostly determine if i make the switch is if my game group does. If I have no one to play with then there is no reason to buy in.

GW games: edition changes often involved huge differences to the core mechanics and/or balance that required more often than not extensive changes to your armies as well as the cost of new rules. Porting over your collection was not always easy. For 40k I learned to magnetize EVERYTHING, which helped. My 6th edition Empire army looked nothing like my 8th edition one, for example. Some things remain constant, like tactical marines and assault marines being crap, which is actually nice from a collectors standpoint. Bottom line is that the cost both of money and time is much larger than the cost of the new rulebook, and things change just to change rather than feeling like the game is better. It’s just different.

Bolt Action: seems a lot like x wing 2.0, which is that it’s essentially the same game just cleaned up and incorporating feedback.

Various RPGs: pretty much always a hard reboot, where previous books became useless.

I’ve been through... six edition changes for 40k. I’ve spent more on some of them than others, but I think it’s important to break that down into things I NEEDED to buy to participate in the new edition, and things I WANTED to buy because they were the new hotness. A new rule book typically cost me about $40, and a codex about $50.

I went through three edition changes for WHFB, and again necessary purchases never ran more than a $40 rule book and $50 army books.

I got into Kings of War second edition and converted three of my WHFB factions for a single $25 purchase. Mantic are awesome.

Knight Models recently released a second edition of their awesome Batman miniatures game, with free printable cards for all models and a free rules download.

SAGA has recently released a second edition, and you can get the core rule book for $15 and the Era rulebooks for $20. Since all my war bands are from the Viking age, I was able to upgrade five full factions for $35, And that includes all the new battleboards required to play.

I've go so many...

Magic the Gathering: as a youngun, I spent allowance on Ice Age boosters (not coldsnap, OG Iceage), until my godfather quit magic and I inhereted a massive collection, 2 of the power 9, and at least 1 reserve list card. I didnt need to spend money building decks anymore, and didnt pick it up again until Mirrodin. (again, first mirrodin.) Collected Mirrodin, Kamigawa, and (first) Ravnica hard, had powerful but not friend-killing decks in the newfangled "modern" format, and again, stopped spending money. Recently picked it up again with a nearby Commander League, bought a few boxes (at a hundred dollars each) of Ixalon and Rivals, and I'm tempted to do the same for Dominaria (Because I was actually around for those days!) but need to watch my spending right now. (Besides, I've got 3 commander decks now to play whenever the opportunity presents)

Role Playing games: Also as a youngun, I got into the kids AD&D game at the local game store (2nd ed). We didnt know about splatbooks, so it was relatively cheap (just table dues to pay the DM) until 3rd edition was advertised. Thee's something of a blank there, but I bought a 3.5 core book, didnt like some of the changes, and stopped playing. I dabbled in Star wars, Ironclaw, Star wars revised, Ironclaw 2nd, and Star wars Saga, before D&D4 hit, and I caught RPGA fevor and got basically all the books, until the "heros of the (blank)" 4.5 soft reboot. My group started an Edge of Empire Beta game, and I caught splatbook fevor again- still waiting for the AoR Spy and F&D Mystic and Warrior books.

Minis: After I was no longer spending allowance on magic cards, I and a friend decided to pick up some 40k 3rd edition to play with each other. I went for the fction with the most vehicals, which would be the Imperial Guard. Casual games, slow collection, and mostly playing with a Vehical Design rules I found in a white dwarf. Then someone showed me another white dwarf with 1)Armored Company with Tanks as Troop Choices, and 2) a preivew of the 4th ed vehical rules, including my tanks side guns firing in addition to everything else. I promptly bought 6 Lemun russ at $30 each and assembled them fully loaded. Then the 5th edition Guard codex allowed tank squadrons, but killed my tanks extra weapons, so I needed to fill out my troops more. (Though I managed to kitbash my own Hydras long before there was a plastic model) I got another impetus to play in 6th edition, with more disposable income, and shifted to a Thunderwolf Lords deathstar suppprted by late arriving IG vendettas with objective catching allied troops. Finally, 7th edition, the "Astra Militarum" and the new spacewolves codex all dropped in 2 months, while I was between jobs, and I said enough was enough. Ooh, is that a Ywing dogfighting a tie intercepter? in Xwing, I've been mostly a "1-2 of everything for the cards" collector, except for some imperial spam list stuff or Autothrusters, the Expansion. Looking foreward to being an Imperial/Scum player in 2nd edition.

warhammer wasn't just "new hotness" driving you to new, necessary purchases though

back when I played, they updated the rules to push troop choices (for non-40k guys, "troop" was a classification that set your grunts apart from "elite/heavy support/fast attack etc." choices that were limited to X choices per army) by allowing only them to contest scenario objectives. To play anything but "dice-off", you now had to invest in a LOT of troops which had been pretty exceptionally crap in the previous edition

in warhammer fantasy, they had a really annoying habit of screwing over your unit selection. I remember high elf players getting livid when their all Calvary armies got gutted because their Silver Helm knights moved from Core (no unit limit in the army) to Special (hard unit cap) where there already existed an elite Calvary unit that the Silver Helms now directly competed with and remained strictly inferior to

pretty sure they also dicked around with minimum unit size, which didn't please the Empire players that were used to being able to field "Detachments" (mini-unit blocks acting in support of a "parent" unit)

not to mention that 6 years was the upper limit of these edition changes, 4 was far more common.

GW was really sorta sneaky about "incentivizing" you into spending at least double the surface cost of transferring to new editions

21 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

warhammer wasn't just "new hotness" driving you to new, necessary purchases though

back when I played, they updated the rules to push troop choices (for non-40k guys, "troop" was a classification that set your grunts apart from "elite/heavy support/fast attack etc." choices that were limited to X choices per army) by allowing only them to contest scenario objectives. To play anything but "dice-off", you now had to invest in a LOT of troops which had been pretty exceptionally crap in the previous edition

in warhammer fantasy, they had a really annoying habit of screwing over your unit selection. I remember high elf players getting livid when their all Calvary armies got gutted because their Silver Helm knights moved from Core (no unit limit in the army) to Special (hard unit cap) where there already existed an elite Calvary unit that the Silver Helms now directly competed with and remained strictly inferior to

pretty sure they also dicked around with minimum unit size, which didn't please the Empire players that were used to being able to field "Detachments" (mini-unit blocks acting in support of a "parent" unit)

not to mention that 6 years was the upper limit of these edition changes, 4 was far more common.

GW was really sorta sneaky about "incentivizing" you into spending at least double the surface cost of transferring to new editions

Yeah, but that’s no different to putting Palp in the Raider box. I played High Elves for a little while in 6th edition, so I can’t comment too directly on them.

aye palp in a raider box was some ****, meant I never played him

glad he's coming in the kit, instead

34 minutes ago, Rakaydos said:

Magic the Gathering: as a youngun, I spent allowance on Ice Age boosters (not coldsnap, OG Iceage)

This makes me smile, as Ice Age was the last set I collected. I was young, especially compared to now, but I wasn't a "youngster," by any means.

Malifaux and Firestorm Armada had a pretty good switch over to a new edition. I was always impressed with Privateer for managing to pull off their 2.0 and then release books for each faction over the next year. Flames of War had an awesome update from 2.0 to 3.0, giving out free rulebooks if you showed your copy of the 2.0 version. Their latest update I’m more... “meh...” about. I’ll hold my final opinion until I see what they do to the mid-war Eastern Front, but I’m expecting all Soviet tanks to end up ROF 1 with penalties to hit when moving because of questionable reasons. Games Workshop edition updates have never been good, and have always felt like “shaking the balance jar...” I have a shelved Evil Suns bike army, because GW decided only marines should have sub-factions, and Orks didn’t deserve bike armies (let alone a good one). And that’s not even mentioning my 6/7 ed Skaven, and Fantasy devolving into a skirmish game.

By far, X-Wing v2.0 seems to be one of the most reasonable updates I’ve ever witnessed. It is clear the devs are paying attention to the players and making changes for the good of the game, instead of just to shake stuff up. And they are clearly learning from past balance mistakes, by making points and upgrade slots into a “living ruleset” design (online, doesn’t affect printed cards). These are all good moves, and remind me of the good intentions that Epic Armageddon had back before GW killed that good idea, too.

6 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

This makes me smile, as Ice Age was the last set I collected. I was young, especially compared to now, but I wasn't a "youngster," by any means.

lets say I'm technically a millennial, and you can do the math. :3

I can see a lot of hatred towards GW And in most cases rightly so. Each and every time they did an update for a new edition It was all In the purpose of money grabbing. The rules were Not improved it most cases made it more confusing or Worse. On the purpose of selling you models.

I'm not gonna go into a long winded rant about how I got screwed by GW. So I can see how a lot of people are very hesitant X Wing 2.0. Im Concerned about the hidden cost as well. That's why I been so Diligent about asking questions about the Conversion kits. What will Conversion kits have how many copies for each fighter will it come with median plastic bases. I've asked these questions before because of the concern. I'm that veterans players like me who played other games have seen as type that behave Before From other companies.

The new edition Improves a game I'm all for. So far I believe fantasy flight's been Up front with the New edition. But I don't Blame anybody for being cautious. We've been hurt before.

so far, all my new editions for Monopoly have been fully backward compatible.

What was the worst from other games:

the faction I played was split up and re-united an edition later (and I was stupid enough to invest to get at least one half playable gain)
the army I was working on was invalidated by an edition change before I finished painting it (and I never did), this happend 3 times with 3 different armies in the same game

the new edition was not an improvement but a complete new game changing everything and I was starting from zero (happend 2 times with different games)
the game killed itself (the community support, or the company got bankrupt) with the changes, happend with 3 games

GW was screwing fans over with Warhammer until the game was dead and they had to reboot it with something completely different
they tried to do the same with Lord of the Rings, but as the community was not the same, the community support died the first time they did it
40k works somehow but if you want to be a tournament player you need a huge collection or a lot of money to keep up with the changing meta

Flames of War worked until V4 and everyone her stopped playing because of the changes
Firestorm Armada and Dystopian Wars may come back but I have my doubts
SAGA V2 is either loved or hated, I am still not sure if I should stick with V1 or upgrade

So X-Wing seems to be not the worst for now and do things right.