I'm currently compiling a master list of weapons in Genesys, and I noticed something that struck me as odd: Axes don't get the Sunder quality. This is true in both the Genesys Core Rulebook and in Realms of Terrinoth . But wouldn't it make sense for axes to get Sunder? Of all weapons, the axe seems specifically designed to break other things apart. Or am I overlooking something? Is Sunder much more powerful than I'm considering?

Axes may Sunder Armour and shields , but it’s easy to block an axe by deflecting it’s handle using your sword. So how do you have Sunder but only for armour? FFG seems to have decided to just remove Sunder

You could throw in a 10 pt talent Axe Master than allows you to add the Sunder quality to melee attacks made with an axe. I agree that axes are excellent for destroying stuff in general, though you would be hard pressed to destroy someone's sword while wielding an axe. The same is true of a hammer, though.

Axes are good at wrecking things that don't move and are positioned with something underneath the target to maximize the force of the blow, splitting logs on a stump, for instance. Have someone toss logs into the air, not so easy or effective.....

I don't think axes should have Sunder. Hammers are better to break things in my opinion.

Axes are a nice weapon to swing around and deal some area damage, but this kind of thing is reach just with talents.

Pathfinder 2.0 is doing something cool, creating a specific critical effect for each weapon group. Swords can give a bonus in attack rolls to allies, axes can deal demage to a enemy second enemy near you, spears reduce de enemy armor and attack I guess, etc.

Why I'm talking about this, cause it's possible to create new rules if you want. Why not something like this:

Quality: Destroyer: if this weapon cause critical damage, you may activate the quality Sunder for 1 advantage less, to a minimum of 1.

Or this could be a 5xp or 10xp talent.

Sunder already is a 1 Advantage activation, but the convoys decent. Perhaps

“when you inflict a Critical injury with this weapon you damage one piece of the opponents equipment as if you had activated the Sunder quality once”

Oh, my bad. I thought that needed 2 to activate Sunder.

I have made that mistake before too ?

4 hours ago, Richardbuxton said:

Sunder already is a 1 Advantage activation, but the convoys decent. Perhaps

“when you inflict a Critical injury with this weapon you damage one piece of the opponents equipment as if you had activated the Sunder quality once”

4 hours ago, Bellyon said:

Oh, my bad. I thought that needed 2 to activate Sunder.

Yeah, because then it would take 8(?) Advantage to one-shot a weapon or object into pieces instead of 4(?).

(I think my math is right...or would it be 6 instead of 3? I'm AFB right now...)

No, it was my mistake, I was thinking that we need 2 adv to active Sunder, but my point is to create a kind of synergy or something like "active 2 qualities that cost 2 at the same time just for 3 adv".

Anyway, like I've said, I don't agree that axes should have Sunder. Maybe a talent could provide this, like Direach said.

So I can see why they didn't give axes (or hammers) Sunder. But I'm having trouble finding the rule in the book for how weapons and armor can be damaged. Is it only possible to damage enemy gear if you attack with something that does have Sunder? Or could you achieve the effect with a Triumph and a warhammer?

Just with Sunder as far as I know. And the things are pretty simple:

• Here is the point where the equipment is ok, without any problem.
• Minor (one setback using it)
• Moderate (increase difficulty once)
• Major (unusable)
• Destroyed

I don't think it's wrong to describe some kind of damage based on the narrative events also, but like almost anything in the system, this is pretty open for the GM.

Thanks! Yeah, I don't see why it would be overpowered to allow a weapon to damage an enemy's piece of gear one step on a Triumph if Sunder costs 1 Advantage for an item with that quality. You'd need four Triumphs to completely destroy the gear, and by choosing to damage it, you're opting not to cause critical hits or other effects.

You could even go so far as to make some special materials immune to the Sunder effect like a mithril shirt worn by your hairy-footed halfling. Which is what the Cortosis Weave did to armor in the Star Wars RPG as it gave it immunity to Sunder and Breach weapon effects. You know, lightsaber protection. ?

To each table their own I say, but my take is the more things people load up on base weaponry, the less wiggle room a GM has for rewarding their players with stuff. When I made my weapons in my fantasy game I backed off from what I saw in the Gencon preview last year toned them down for that reason.

3 hours ago, SavageBob said:

But I'm having trouble finding the rule in the book for how weapons and armor can be damaged. Is it only possible to damage enemy gear if you attack with something that does have Sunder? Or could you achieve the effect with a Triumph and a warhammer?

You can destroy anything the opponent is using with 2 Triumphs. Sunder is a special quality that is much more effective at breaking certain things, but the 2 Triumph rule can be used on anything.

20 minutes ago, awayputurwpn said:

You can destroy anything the opponent is using with 2 Triumphs. Sunder is a special quality that is much more effective at breaking certain things, but the 2 Triumph rule can be used on anything.

Ah, yes! The table on p.104. Thanks! I knew there was a general, non-Sunder version of destroying enemy gear. If it's two Triumphs to destroy something outright, all the more reason that one Triumph should be able to damage the gear one step if the player chooses. Realistically, I'd probably use this as an option against PCs more than they'd use it on NPCs.

14 minutes ago, SavageBob said:

Ah, yes! The table on p.104. Thanks! I knew there was a general, non-Sunder version of destroying enemy gear. If it's two Triumphs to destroy something outright, all the more reason that one Triumph should be able to damage the gear one step if the player chooses. Realistically, I'd probably use this as an option against PCs more than they'd use it on NPCs.

I'd allow a Triumph or 3 Advantage to do this (on a successful check, of course). 4 successful checks, each with 3 advantage, to break something.

Don't forget that can be spent to damage the active item one step as well.