Personally, I like Long-range com on my bikes (or at least Commanding Presence on Veers) so that I can issue orders to them when I want, regarless of how the battle has gone. If you feel you can keep them close, then there's no need. Also, while Targeting scopes aren't bad, per se, I always feel like I am sort of wasting points on them. Maybe give a squad or two concussion grenades instead so that they can charge the enemy and throw black dice in their face. I also really like adding Environmental Protection to those troops so that they can hop over a barricade or run through rough terrain to hail those grenades all the more effectively. Looks like a good list, though! I might try it myself with 4 Storm, 2 Snow, and 2 Bikes once the Snowtroopers drop.

One other suggestion. It might be worth it to drop two squads and take Vader instead. Gives you two commanders, a choice of cards, and good panic control across the battlefield.

I've recently been converted to the DLT-19 side of the Force. I was all about the HH-12, and had a fair bit of success with it but after some reading here and elsewhere and a little playing around with it in game, the DLT-19 just seems a bit more versatile. Being able to move and shoot is huge, not having to exhaust/ready the weapon is big, and with potentially 4 dice to re-roll when you aim is massive (for the red and the white dice - not that you couldn't use them for the rocket tubes) and does wonders to roll them crits. If you switched them out the 20 points could go towards the aforementioned long range comm links.

That being as it is, there is something to be said about banging off a couple rockets and erasing an AT-RT from existence. The only issue I see is fighting Luke. If he gets in to it with your boys there may be some trouble. @SirCormac 's suggestion would mitigate that somewhat.

I still haven't been able to use my Veers in a game. I really want to!

6 hours ago, SirCormac said:

Personally, I like Long-range com on my bikes (or at least Commanding Presence on Veers) so that I can issue orders to them when I want, regarless of how the battle has gone. If you feel you can keep them close, then there's no need. Also, while Targeting scopes aren't bad, per se, I always feel like I am sort of wasting points on them. Maybe give a squad or two concussion grenades instead so that they can charge the enemy and throw black dice in their face. I also really like adding Environmental Protection to those troops so that they can hop over a barricade or run through rough terrain to hail those grenades all the more effectively. Looks like a good list, though! I might try it myself with 4 Storm, 2 Snow, and 2 Bikes once the Snowtroopers drop.

I'm also a pretty big fan of long range Coms I assumed with the fact of how I built veers with the upgrade the he would be more upfront and still be in range however it would be my first time running the list so I'm unsure and as for the scopes I figured since Veers hands out Aim tokens that they would just profit from more re-rolls from the free focus

1 hour ago, Crawfskeezen said:

I've recently been converted to the DLT-19 side of the Force. I was all about the HH-12, and had a fair bit of success with it but after some reading here and elsewhere and a little playing around with it in game, the DLT-19 just seems a bit more versatile. Being able to move and shoot is huge, not having to exhaust/ready the weapon is big, and with potentially 4 dice to re-roll when you aim is massive (for the red and the white dice - not that you couldn't use them for the rocket tubes) and does wonders to roll them crits. If you switched them out the 20 points could go towards the aforementioned long range comm links.

That being as it is, there is something to be said about banging off a couple rockets and erasing an AT-RT from existence. The only issue I see is fighting Luke. If he gets in to it with your boys there may be some trouble. @SirCormac 's suggestion would mitigate that somewhat.

I still haven't been able to use my Veers in a game. I really want to!

So I'm not sure how much of a fan I am of Hh-12's they really don't do a lot for me on paper that being said I have never ran them on the table before so this may be a test run for me, Also, you do bring up a good point with Luke and the Long range Coms, I do love Coms on my speeders and I was thinking that Luke could be a problem however it's all up in the air until I try the list.

22 hours ago, Lord Cypher said:

So I'm not sure how much of a fan I am of Hh-12's they really don't do a lot for me on paper that being said I have never ran them on the table before so this may be a test run for me, Also, you do bring up a good point with Luke and the Long range Coms, I do love Coms on my speeders and I was thinking that Luke could be a problem however it's all up in the air until I try the list.

DLTs are one of the strongest units-for-points in the game, in my opinion. My other thing about HH-12s is simply that it is redundant. Stormtroopers have surge to crit hit - so black dice have a 5/8 chance to hit and red dice have a 7/8 chance to hit. HH-12's 3 black dice will likely hit 1.875 units. The DLT's 2 red dice will likely hit 1.75 units. Very similar, although a slight advantage to the HH-12. For HH-12 you gain 2 Impact at the cost of Cumbersome and an inability to fire at Range 1.

So it could be argued that it is situational... a risk versus reward for when your army needs Impact. However, as the Empire army currently stands, it really doesn't need additional Impact. Almost all other units have Impact. AT-ST has Impact 3. Speeder Bikes have Impact 1 (stacks if you have both bikes). Vader has Impact 3. Stormtroopers can be upgraded to add Impact inside Range 1 with Grenades for 5 points instead of 34 point cost of the HH-12.

I guess my conclusion is that the HH-12s only value is +2 Impact (when compared with the DLT) at the cost of Cumbersome and a lack of Range 1, however, the current Empire army options don't really need additional Impact. If an armored vehicle is causing you trouble, you SHOULD have other units that can defeat it. Likely either Vader or an AT-ST.

So yeah, I stray away from HH-12s, personally. Just my two cents!

Huh... Stormtroopers have surge to HIT, not to crit.

3 hours ago, Deuzerre said:

Huh... Stormtroopers have surge to HIT, not to crit.

Brain fart on my part 100% - the word I typed was not the word I meant. Doesn't change the math though.

Brainfarts happen, no Biggie.

Imo DLTs are great for imperial players, but with veers and his ability to reboot units, HH12 got a neat boost imo

7 hours ago, Copes said:

DLTs are one of the strongest units-for-points in the game, in my opinion. My other thing about HH-12s is simply that it is redundant. Stormtroopers have surge to crit hit - so black dice have a 5/8 chance to hit and red dice have a 7/8 chance to hit. HH-12's 3 black dice will likely hit 1.875 units. The DLT's 2 red dice will likely hit 1.75 units. Very similar, although a slight advantage to the HH-12. For HH-12 you gain 2 Impact at the cost of Cumbersome and an inability to fire at Range 1.

So it could be argued that it is situational... a risk versus reward for when your army needs Impact. However, as the Empire army currently stands, it really doesn't need additional Impact. Almost all other units have Impact. AT-ST has Impact 3. Speeder Bikes have Impact 1 (stacks if you have both bikes). Vader has Impact 3. Stormtroopers can be upgraded to add Impact inside Range 1 with Grenades for 5 points instead of 34 point cost of the HH-12.

I guess my conclusion is that the HH-12s only value is +2 Impact (when compared with the DLT) at the cost of Cumbersome and a lack of Range 1, however, the current Empire army options don't really need additional Impact. If an armored vehicle is causing you trouble, you SHOULD have other units that can defeat it. Likely either Vader or an AT-ST.

So yeah, I stray away from HH-12s, personally. Just my two cents!

Thank you so much for this insight, yea I guess I'm not of fan of them really, but I want to try and run them to at least get a feel, that and I know my opponents like to run lots of AT RTs and snow speeders I thought this might help but well see

9 hours ago, Lord Cypher said:

Thank you so much for this insight, yea I guess I'm not of fan of them really, but I want to try and run them to at least get a feel, that and I know my opponents like to run lots of AT RTs and snow speeders I thought this might help but well see

Definitely should try it on the table as opposed to us sitting here theorycrafting. Let me know how it goes!