To be fair; some folk on here are just mugs regardless if you're in for 2.0 or not.

19 minutes ago, TheWampa said:

Maybe just read the product announcement once? All you're "assuming" is already answered there...

Plus, there will be a website version and a PDF-Version...

oh thats great, so i just need to take a laptop or PC with me instead or just keep reprinting it everytime they update or add new cards

and Yes i know you can get the Net on a phone or tablet .... I just happen to dislike this growing trend of board games that Need or are best served with Apps., others on here have stated Board Games are a way to get away from online life and I Totally agree

I have always been a Huge X-com fan since the days of UFO, but the board game relies on an App. and so that is a major reason FFG has not made any money out of me for their X-com board game.

Or just build your lists at home and bring the cards with you when you go to games.

Functionally I don't expect my play to be any different at all. I already build my lists online and bring cards to games, basically nothing is going to change.

On 5/7/2018 at 3:12 AM, TallGiraffe said:

I poke my head into the X-wing forums from time to time. 2.0 has me interested (Even though it kinda was the only thing at the Hyperspace Report AND MY RAGE STILL HASN'T GONE AWAY!)

I have read your previous thread here. https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/275339-350-to-convert-700/

After the first few posts by you, you just focus on all the posts against your rational or generally negative (And one post agreeing with you of course)

You don't even seem to acknowledge from my view positive comments such as going with trading to get what you wanted and just end up engaging in heated debates in the thread. The fault of the "Nasty" going on is you for stirring the pot it seems. If you think some people won't buy some kits just to piecemeal all the different components for profit, I am pretty sure it will happen that you can get stuff online.

But what do I know? I am just an Armada player.

2 hours ago, Forgottenlore said:

@Ram

But vontoothskie hasn’t just been occasionally making negative comments, he, and a few others, have been going out of their way to “I can’t, AND NEITHER CAN YOU!!!! You’re all wrong for saying you can!!!” Over and over again, to the point of creating multiple threads just to go CAN’T, CAN’T, CAN’T, CAN’T. People have tried to engage him constructively and he just ignores them in favor of throwing a tantrum and people are getting annoyed by it.

So, yes. If you are rude and obnoxious enough there reaches a point where people will be rude back to you.

There have been been a couple people, like you it seems, who have expressed disapproval and frustration at how FFG has gone about the update without behaving like a 3 year old and everyone has been perfectly polite and willing to have discussions with them. It’s just the people who refuse to do anything but whine who are (after 2 days) catching flak for it.

Oh man. Who could have seen this coming?

(Sorry for being dickish. I agree that the guy definitely doesn't want anyone to be able to have a good solution to this other than change the price of the kits or contents of the kits.)

The biggest benefit of the app, IMO, is that it will basically destroy the link between cards and upgrades. If the app contains all the information, then I won’t need four copies of a particular card just because I’ve applied that upgrade four times. It also means I can cut right down on the clutter on the table. Hopefully it has a well formatted printing option so we can use that for marking damage etc instead of using pilot cards. If it’s done right it may eliminate the need for cards altogether.

9 hours ago, Vontoothskie said:

what the **** are you talking about?

my statement was the cost to convert my personal collection through purchasing conversion kits.

that is not misinformation.

the hypothetical secondary market of the future has no bearing whatsoever on my statements or whether they are factual.

Meanwhile someone posts on the forum that he does not understand all this exitment about 2.0 prices, because all his conversion kits are free. He won a free 2.0 conversion in a big tournament at his store. ?

Your estimation for the conversion of your fleet is even more hypothetical than the already active secondary market. You can already pre-oder individual cards. So much for hypothetical. Meanwhile anyone buying 6 conversion kits for for his 5 Kihraxz fighters ... I would call such a person indeed just hypothetical. People are smarter than this.

11 hours ago, Makaze said:

Cardboard is significantly more expensive than cards. Cards use a standard size die that is mass produced, requires virtually no setup between different sheet runs, and can be easily automatically sorted and boxed. Whereas cardboard uses a custom die, requires changes to line between runs, can have varying slug sizes, and depending on the number of simultaneous lines can require post print sorting.

I won't claim to know FFGs margins on the conversion kits, scale is a huge factor and theirs is far larger than anything I've ever dealt with. But I will definitely say that the manufacturing cost for something like alt art cards vs custom shaped cardboard is very different.

Ok. Just out of interest, what print prize per card would you Think FFG has? I have asked my supplier about cardboard prints and basically they say that there is an inital cost for punching tool(s) that are unique per sheet but after that the cost is marginally higher because they need to use a different printer. So with the volumes that FFG have, the price to print cardboard should be just a few percent higher the regular cards and it may even be less as the cardboard is not glossy as the cards are.

So I Think I can stand pretty firm in my estimate.

But again, hypothetical and largly irrelevant. The cost is not an issue, the only thing that matters is if we buy it. And we know we will.

42 minutes ago, Chucknuckle said:

The biggest benefit of the app, IMO, is that it will basically destroy the link between cards and upgrades. If the app contains all the information, then I won’t need four copies of a particular card just because I’ve applied that upgrade four times. It also means I can cut right down on the clutter on the table. Hopefully it has a well formatted printing option so we can use that for marking damage etc instead of using pilot cards. If it’s done right it may eliminate the need for cards altogether.

For casual play, that;s fine.

For tournaments I can cast-iron guarantee you will need a copy of every card in your list, including multiples of the same card.

2 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

For casual play, that;s fine.

For tournaments I can cast-iron guarantee you will need a copy of every card in your list, including multiples of the same card.

Plus ça change, … ?

I agree, FFG is not eliminating the requirement for cards. The cards are there to let your opponent know what your configuration is, they’re not just for you who built the squad. You can’t expect me, who did not build your squad to remember what upgrades are on each ship...

The goal of using the app to proce things (and to indicate what upgrades a ship can have) is so that FFG can tweak prices and what is allowed on a ship without invalidating the print on the catd. They are acknowledging that mistakes slip through, and this way they can correct them and not end up with “fixes” that require titles or additional cards, instead pricing things correctly, or allowing or disallowing upgrade combinations for better balance.

10 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

For casual play, that;s fine.

For tournaments I can cast-iron guarantee you will need a copy of every card in your list, including multiples of the same card.

I cast-iron guarantee that the attitude is changing. If you can play from the app instead of a spread of cards, then simple laziness and thriftiness will move the player base away from “must have every card”. Maybe not for years, maybe not till third edition, but it will happen for sure.

6 minutes ago, RookiePilot said:

You can’t expect me, who did not build your squad to remember what upgrades are on each ship...

But I can use a print out, or simply show you the build screen on the app. It may have become the norm in X Wing, but it’s not actually unreasonable to have to ask your opponent to remind you about upgrades and abilities when playing war games.

10 minutes ago, Chucknuckle said:

I cast-iron guarantee that the attitude is changing. If you can play from the app instead of a spread of cards, then simple laziness and thriftiness will move the player base away from “must have every card”.

Most players don't give a quarter about having or not having all the cards required. It's FFG, because selling those cards and upgrades is part of their business model. Maybe the increases model prices are a sign that they want to get away from that, but to be honest: I don't think so.

The official stance of FFG is that you have to bring all the cards to a tournament. If something is missing you are not allowed to play this list in official FFG events. Now in reality loans or just ignoring that rule happens all the time already.

1 hour ago, Slash Macbain said:

2 hours ago, TheWampa said:

Maybe just read the product announcement once? All you're "assuming" is already answered there...

Plus, there will be a website version and a PDF-Version...

oh thats great, so i just need to take a laptop or PC with me instead or just keep reprinting it everytime they update or add new cards

and Yes i know you can get the Net on a phone or tablet .... I just happen to dislike this growing trend of board games that Need or are best served with Apps., others on here have stated Board Games are a way to get away from online life and I Totally agree

Don't get me wrong, but if you are one of the players that come to a store without some prepared lists (and I'm not talking meta here...) and start to rummage in their collection for another 30-40 min before we can finally begin a game, then I'm glad you probably live on another continent.

As a working person that unneccessary wait on a (in my case) Thursday night after 9 hours at work is absolutely a waste of my "hobby time"...

If the app was necessary to actually play the game I'd be fully on your side and wouldn't plan for 2.0.

But it isn't.

37 minutes ago, Chucknuckle said:

I cast-iron guarantee that the attitude is changing. If you can play from the app instead of a spread of cards, then simple laziness and thriftiness will move the player base away from “must have every card”. Maybe not for years, maybe not till third edition, but it will happen for sure.

You're wrong. No two ways about it. TOurnaments are a marketing tool for FFG, relaxing the requirements on cards would be utterly counterproductive.

What unofficial tournaments and kit-level stuff does is pretty immaterial, but expect anything at SC level or above to continue requiring all the cards.

Requiring all the cards at tournaments (and actually enforcing it) is fine right up until more players are pissed off by it, than not. Then it becomes an unnecessary friction point and a barrier to entry that is easily circumvented by using the app.

Mark my words, as player attitudes change FFG will change their policies.

On 5/7/2018 at 3:42 AM, Werewolf_nr said:

Honestly, not really. I got flak for accurately quoting my collection at $250+core (about $310).

My friends and I have a whole cabinet full of ships. Probably in the range of thousands of dollars in there over the years.

1 minute ago, Chucknuckle said:

Requiring all the cards at tournaments (and actually enforcing it) is fine right up until more players are pissed off by it, than not. Then it becomes an unnecessary friction point and a barrier to entry that is easily circumvented by using the app.

Mark my words, as player attitudes change FFG will change their policies.

Sounds like the old vs the young.

6 minutes ago, Chucknuckle said:

Requiring all the cards at tournaments (and actually enforcing it) is fine right up until more players are pissed off by it, than not. Then it becomes an unnecessary friction point and a barrier to entry that is easily circumvented by using the app.

Mark my words, as player attitudes change FFG will change their policies.

In that instance, FFG would stop doing tournaments.

FFG do tournaments to sell product, if the product is not required, the purporse of the tournaments ceases to exist.

Plus, it's really not easily circumvented by the app. I have no easy way to see what my opponent's list status is without all their cards; between force tokens, charges, shields and damage, the cards are necessary for everything to be easily visible across the table and not need me to badger my opponent every 5 minutes to tell me what's going on.

The app is not an in-game tool, it is a list building tool. I wouldn't expect to use it in play any more than I do YASB.

7 minutes ago, ishikabe said:

Sounds like the old vs the young.

Get off my lawn.

Apparently 32 is old now.

1 minute ago, thespaceinvader said:

In that instance, FFG would stop doing tournaments.

FFG do tournaments to sell product, if the product is not required, the purporse of the tournaments ceases to exist.

Plus, it's really not easily circumvented by the app. I have no easy way to see what my opponent's list status is without all their cards; between force tokens, charges, shields and damage, the cards are necessary for everything to be easily visible across the table and not need me to badger my opponent every 5 minutes to tell me what's going on.

The app is not an in-game tool, it is a list building tool. I wouldn't expect to use it in play any more than I do YASB.

That’s a negative ghost rider. Players will still want to attend tournaments so FFG will want to run them, lest their players abandon the system for something else.

although I’d personally LOVE the end of official tournaments, so the community would be forced to run them instead. Then we might finally see some variety!

6 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Get off my lawn.

Apparently 32 is old now.

I'm the same age but have no problem using an app for updated rules and cards. I bank this way too.

As a player, I don’t care whether you own the cards you are using or not. All I care is that is is not difficult determining your squad at a glance. If you built your squad on a phone, that isn’t going to cut it for actual gameplay. I can’t read your phone from across the table, and I’m not going to keep asking you all game about whether you have certain cards or not. Especially now that some cards have charges or status (dual sided). You should be prepared to bring the required physical components of the game with you if you want to play me. Hey, if I have an extra card you need, I’m even willing to loan it to you for the gameagainst me. I’m not trying to create a barrier to play, I just don’t want to deal with a game where I have to work extra hard because you don’t feel it is important to show your squad the way it was intended to be. It would be especially aggrevating to lose, simply because I didn’t know you still had one more missle or that I didn’t remember that you opened your s-foils last turn.

the absolute biggest problem i have with this new version is........... how long till 3.0

seriously this is why i got out of warhammer. im a 17 year warhammer 40k player and this is what happened, 1998-2005 3rd ed, 2005-2010 4th ed, 2010-2014 5th ed, 2014-2016 6th ed, and 2016 - present 7th and 8th ed............... note the time spans of editions gets shorter.....

my dates may be a bit off but honestly it doesnt get any more plain then that. how many times are you willing to update your collection to stay relevent. so many themed armies flushed down the toilet because of a new edition. thats all i see happening here. all because every wave HAD to have some new gimmick. they couldnt just put out cool ships for us to buy they had to have some broken gear or gimmick.

If you want to go totally electronic, the app would need to be able to display both player’s squads during game play. If I can browse you squad on my device whenever I need information, I can make that work. And I can bring a tablet so I can actually read everything. My old eyes need all the help they can get. However, what do you do when some yahoo forgets to charge his device before a tournament and it dies during the game? There is a certain elegance to the simplicity of the components of the game as it is. In fact, FFG did make an effort to reduce the clutter of the game in certain aspects. Less upgrade cards as ships now have auto-includes on the ship cards. Less target lock tokens. All for a better gaming experience.

1 minute ago, CushionRide said:

the absolute biggest problem i have with this new version is........... how long till 3.0

seriously this is why i got out of warhammer. im a 17 year warhammer 40k player and this is what happened, 1998-2005 3rd ed, 2005-2010 4th ed, 2010-2014 5th ed, 2014-2016 6th ed, and 2016 - present 7th and 8th ed............... note the time spans of editions gets shorter.....

my dates may be a bit off but honestly it doesnt get any more plain then that. how many times are you willing to update your collection to stay relevent. so many themed armies flushed down the toilet because of a new edition. thats all i see happening here. all because every wave HAD to have some new gimmick. they couldnt just put out cool ships for us to buy they had to have some broken gear or gimmick.

I honestly feel that FFG is trying to commit to longevity of a single version. The app for building goes a long way on this. It allows them to correct mistakes via pricing so that the game doesn’t become clunky and require “fix” cards and eratta. They’ve learned a lot from the first version and the FAQ path that evolved. I think they’re going to be better at the rules printed on the cards, and they’re backing off effects that caused power creep, like auto effects. They are also committed to keeping the iconic ships relevant even if they do get released before other new ships show up. Barring a major disastr with new mechanics like “the force”, I see all the changes trying to address the longevity of the version.