Several folks have covered this now but it's really quite simple: pretty much no one is bothered or cares if you decide not to convert to 2.0.

People are bothered and react negatively when people post misinformation "justifying" and trying to sway others into being angry at FFG over 2.0. You should continue to expect this if you post incorrect or hyperbolic information such as anything related to the whole app/web page squad building, "I have to pay $500 to convert my $100 collection" style threads or any of the similar things.

If you can stay away from misinformation and are truly just interested in letting people know why you might not be around in the future rather than inciting riots, I doubt anyone will react negatively to your posts

15 minutes ago, Jadotch said:

I personally cannot stand the app idea. I know why it was done, and the benefits of the app.

I often throw have game nights with people that don’t play a lot of sophisticated board games. I try and throw one into the night, while most others are like Cards Against Humanity. (The Resistance has been the only real successful one to stick.)

I have had a couple people interested in X-Wing.

An APP/Reference will be a hinderance for casual introductions into the game. (Especially for people who have played Pokémon/Magic in the past who enjoy list building.) In 1.0 I personally understood almost instantly what upgrad cards I could have just by glancing at the pilot card.

I am often hosting with my stuff.

The app is just an unneeded level of bureaucracy for a casual game and for people who use your set.

Anyways. Tomorrow I will be updating the X-Wing One website with at least stated goals and how I plan to keep X-Wing 1.0 fun for us hold outs. (I am leaning more and more on purchasing 2.0, but it will be used much much less that 1.0 due to the groups I play with.)

www.xwingone.com

As others have stated, I think quickbuild cards could be useful for you. HOWEVER, I do think that trying to continue 1.0 for casuals is a noble goal, and wish you best of luck. Additionally, I think I will be pursuing a system for building a simple squad building in 2.0 outside of quickbuild cards, just for fun.

I'm not sure if I could care less if people don't want to play 2nd edition.

List building is about 40% of the fun that got me personally hooked. If I was handed a “quick build” I don’t think I would have ever of bought into it.

Flying was another 40%. Then the fluff being the rest.

3 minutes ago, Jadotch said:

List building is about 40% of the fun that got me personally hooked. If I was handed a “quick build” I don’t think I would have ever of bought into it.

Flying was another 40%. Then the fluff being the rest.

So you're going to let a bunch of folks who've never played the game before or maybe played once or twice build their own lists as a spur of the moment thing on gamenight?

23 minutes ago, Jadotch said:

List building is about 40% of the fun that got me personally hooked. If I was handed a “quick build” I don’t think I would have ever of bought into it.

Flying was another 40%. Then the fluff being the rest.

You are 100% right the existence of quick builds remove standard list building from the game.

*Rolls eyes*

Man people are really nasty on here if you arent converting and make lots of posts complaing about it over and over saying the same things over and over even after proven that a lot of your arguments are false over and over clogging up the board with the same useless stance over and over.

Seriously, we get it. you don't like the way version two is being rolled out. we don't need to read about it yet again......

2 hours ago, Jadotch said:

List building is about 40% of the fun that got me personally hooked. If I was handed a “quick build” I don’t think I would have ever of bought into it.

I would imagine building a sub-optimal list that gets crushed because you're unfamiliar with the game would keep me from buying into it too.

16 minutes ago, DailyRich said:

I would imagine building a sub-optimal list that gets crushed because you're unfamiliar with the game would keep me from buying into it too.

I usually use a list of 6 generic obsidian ties during the intro game. While they make whatever list they want and find out how the cards operates.

The first pilot I flew was Etahn A’baht. Not exactly a winning pilot.

25 minutes ago, Jadotch said:

I usually use a list of 6 generic obsidian ties during the intro game. While they make whatever list they want and find out how the cards operates.

The first pilot I flew was Etahn A’baht. Not exactly a winning pilot.

Give them some quick build cards. Tell them to pick out whatever they like that totals 5. Assemble lists. Play game. Let them play again at 6 or 7 threat. Tell them that the full game is completely customizable. Gain new xwing friends.

Seriously, this new threat system is way better at introducing new players than anything 1.0 had. The introduction escalation scenario sounds like an amazing tool as well. Second edition blows first edition out of the water for ease of introduction.

5 hours ago, Icelom said:

I would be interested to see the data you have on the $20 price point, as it stands I did not know that ffg release their development, marketing, fabrication, warehousing, and shipping costs to the general public? do you work at FFG and have secret information?

I would be shocked if FFG is turning any kind of reasonable profit on the conversion kits based on the development cost and whatnot that went into them. Where they will make there profit is on the latter expansions of old ships with most of the development done on them already. 14x waves of ship development crammed into a $50 box. the box will have more physical content than most board games and most likely all $50 board games on top of a heavy development cost for all the content.

To be quite honest, I am having trouble seeing the perspective of people that claim they are being gouged or it's a cash grab. So please explain why you think it is a Cash Grab and the price is way to high for whats in the kits? because I just don't see it and have trouble taking people saying that seriously.

Games die.... no part of your payment for 1.0 guaranteed a large player base with organized play in perpetuity. FFG could have easily said 1.0 is over and started 100% fresh with 2.0 with no conversion kits.

All this being said, I know a few of my local group has very tight budgets for x-wing and I am going to do my best to help them by piecing out my extra ships (thinking a $1 a ship as they have no use to me, not sure the upgrade card counts and whats ships are double sided on what cardboard but there should be some.) and making sure they know they can borrow anything they need from me until they get there collection going, its a community in the end and I want everyone to still be playing and happy.

That is not how develpment costs work... Development costs are spread out over the lifecycle of the product. If you think that the entire procuct development cost of 2.0 should be covered by the conversion kits I can understand that it might be confusing.

My estimates are against production, packaging and shiping cost and the only reason that the price is that high in my estimate is the end sellers desired profit margin. I dont know the actual cost for FFG and I have nerver been involved in printing thick cardboard like dials, but I have been involved in printing game cards and other game pieces before so I am reasoably well aquainted with the printing process. My $20 estimate towards end byer is if anything pretty high and takes into account at least 2 steps distribution chains.

It is easy to get impressed by volyme/number of cards.

But I will say this again; I am fine with it. I like the solution that FFG has chosen and I am glad that most of the community accepts it and that the game lives on. And I already have the habit of givning quite a bit of my Money to FFG anyway.

16 hours ago, Dr Zoidberg said:

I've still yet to hear anyone offer a better alternative to the conversion packs offered by FFG. V2 isn't just for existing players; it's also going meant for new people too. So there has to be a balance between assisting existing players get up to scratch and making it open enough for new players to join.

Many of those complaining act as if FFG owes them precisely the right amount of stuff to convert their existing collections, and at a pittance too. Both assumptions are unreasonable. FFG is a business and I think it's struck a good balance between bringing existing players up to speed and making a new game (because it is a new game) available to new players.

I've also strong doubts about how many of those apparently quitting will actually follow through.

3 better options right off the top of my head

1, do exactly what theyve done but charge $20. anyone who has had components manufactured in asia or researched costs knows these packs cost well under $10 to produce AND ship. the $40+ markup is greedy considering they already sold us the ships

2) put more in the packs but keep prices the same. enough to run 200 point lists in the new ruleset with the ships of that faction. if a new defender costs 60 points, include 3 conversions for it, etc. still a huge profit

3) offer conversions for individual ships by request. mail in your proof of purchase or sell them for $2 a ship or something. do this with a limited window, say 6 months, to allow loyal customers an upgrade at reasonable prices

4) run a kickstarter style "campaign", where players could buy the core set and "optional buy" the ship components they need. this way FFG would have known what to make, had it payed for before printing, and players would get exactly what they needed. it would have been a "thank you" to longtime players while still making money for FFG and maintaining good will.

almost anything would be better than "surprise, give us all the money or sod off"

21 minutes ago, Ram said:

I dont know the actual cost for FFG and I have nerver been involved in printing thick cardboard like dials, but I have been involved in printing game cards and other game pieces before so I am reasoably well aquainted with the printing process

Cardboard is significantly more expensive than cards. Cards use a standard size die that is mass produced, requires virtually no setup between different sheet runs, and can be easily automatically sorted and boxed. Whereas cardboard uses a custom die, requires changes to line between runs, can have varying slug sizes, and depending on the number of simultaneous lines can require post print sorting.

I won't claim to know FFGs margins on the conversion kits, scale is a huge factor and theirs is far larger than anything I've ever dealt with. But I will definitely say that the manufacturing cost for something like alt art cards vs custom shaped cardboard is very different.

4 hours ago, punkUser said:

Several folks have covered this now but it's really quite simple: pretty much no one is bothered or cares if you decide not to convert to 2.0.

People are bothered and react negatively when people post misinformation "justifying" and trying to sway others into being angry at FFG over 2.0. You should continue to expect this if you post incorrect or hyperbolic information such as anything related to the whole app/web page squad building, "I have to pay $500 to convert my $100 collection" style threads or any of the similar things.

If you can stay away from misinformation and are truly just interested in letting people know why you might not be around in the future rather than inciting riots, I doubt anyone will react negatively to your posts

why are you lying?

there is no misinformation in my post.

my personal collection will cost very neary %50 to convert. I dont like that and it seems absurd to me. if you feel conversion cost is reasonable, cool. your collection probably doesnt involve swarms or wings of the same ship

it is not reasonable to pretend that the math isnt real though

5 hours ago, Jadotch said:

I personally cannot stand the app idea. I know why it was done, and the benefits of the app.

I often throw have game nights with people that don’t play a lot of sophisticated board games. I try and throw one into the night, while most others are like Cards Against Humanity. (The Resistance has been the only real successful one to stick.)

The quick build system is exactly for that. Your welcome, FFG thought about your exact situation and improved it by at least a whole magnitude. No app use needed at all.

4 hours ago, Jadotch said:

List building is about 40% of the fun that got me personally hooked. If I was handed a “quick build” I don’t think I would have ever of bought into it.

Flying was another 40%. Then the fluff being the rest.

For your builds there is the app. ?
For game nights with your casual friends when the app would be an hindrance, there is the quick build system in place for the benefit of your friends. You are not one of those guys who comes with his optimised lists and plays against the poor lists of friends, right? ?

2 minutes ago, Vontoothskie said:

3 better options right off the top of my head

1, do exactly what theyve done but charge $20. anyone who has had components manufactured in asia or researched costs knows these packs cost well under $10 to produce AND ship. the $40+ markup is greedy considering they already sold us the ships

2) put more in the packs but keep prices the same. enough to run 200 point lists in the new ruleset with the ships of that faction. if a new defender costs 60 points, include 3 conversions for it, etc. still a huge profit

3) offer conversions for individual ships by request. mail in your proof of purchase or sell them for $2 a ship or something. do this with a limited window, say 6 months, to allow loyal customers an upgrade at reasonable prices

4) run a kickstarter style "campaign", where players could buy the core set and "optional buy" the ship components they need. this way FFG would have known what to make, had it payed for before printing, and players would get exactly what they needed. it would have been a "thank you" to longtime players while still making money for FFG and maintaining good will.

almost anything would be better than "surprise, give us all the money or sod off"

Without knowing any of the numbers behind be scenes, we can’t possibly know a reasonable price on ourselves, even if some think they do.

We just have to decide for ourselves and either way is fine, but most people seem fine with it and we can all imagine a lot of ways it could have been worse.

5 minutes ago, Vontoothskie said:

why are you lying?

there is no misinformation in my post.

my personal collection will cost very neary %50 to convert. I dont like that and it seems absurd to me. if you feel conversion cost is reasonable, cool. your collection probably doesnt involve swarms or wings of the same ship

it is not reasonable to pretend that the math isnt real though

Your estimate of the cost on their end may or may not be accurate.

4 minutes ago, Vontoothskie said:

1, do exactly what theyve done but charge $20. anyone who has had components manufactured in asia or researched costs knows these packs cost well under $10 to produce AND ship. the $40+ markup is greedy considering they already sold us the ships

If you honestly think that FFG straight pockets the difference between base manufacturing cost and retail price then... just... wow...

9 minutes ago, Vontoothskie said:

3) offer conversions for individual ships by request. mail in your proof of purchase or sell them for $2 a ship or something. do this with a limited window, say 6 months, to allow loyal customers an upgrade at reasonable prices

Considering FFGs performance to find reliable and efficient logistic partners ... I am still cheaper with buying a conversion kit. I mean the core set is 111 euros when ordering from FFG directly. ?

My collection, vs the conversion kits:

Rebel Alliance Conversion Kit

4/3 – A-wing
2/2 – ARC-170
1/2 – Auzituck Gunship
2/2 – B-wing
2/2 – E-wing
1/2 – Ghost
2/2 – HWK-290
2/2 – K-wing
2/2 – Millennium Falcon
1/2 – Phantom I
2/2 – Phantom II
2/2 – Sabine’s TIE Fighter
1/2 – U-wing
3/2 – X-wing
2/2 – Y-wing
1/2 – YT-2400
4/4 – Z-95 Headhunter

Galactic Empire Conversion Kit

6/3 – Alpha-class Star Wing (including shapeways versions)
2/3 – Inquisitor’s TIE
1/2 – Lambda-class Shuttle
3/2 – TIE Advanced
3/3 – TIE Aggressor
3/3 – TIE Bomber
3/2 – TIE Defender
5/4 – TIE Fighter
5/3 – TIE Interceptor
3/2 – TIE Phantom
2/2 – TIE Punisher
5/3 – TIE Striker
1/2 – VT-49 Decimator

Scum and Villainy Conversion Kit

0/2 – Hound’s Tooth
2/2 – HWK-290
2/2 – IG-2000
4/3 – Kihraxz Fighter
1/2 – Kimogila Fighter
3/4 – M3-A Interceptor
2/2 – Mist Hunter
2/3 – Protectorate Starfighter
3/2 – Punishing One
1/3 – Quadjumper
1/2 – Scurrg H-6 Bomber
1/2 – Shadow Caster
1/2 – Slave I
5/2 – StarViper
2/2 – Y-wing
4/4 – Z-95 Headhunter

I'm going to choose to be Ok with throwing 1 Awing, 1 Xwing, 1 Kihraxz, 1 jumpmaster, and 3 butterflies away to save $100 dollars.

2 minutes ago, Rakaydos said:

My collection, vs the conversion kits:

Rebel Alliance Conversion Kit

4/3 – A-wing
2/2 – ARC-170
1/2 – Auzituck Gunship
2/2 – B-wing
2/2 – E-wing
1/2 – Ghost
2/2 – HWK-290
2/2 – K-wing
2/2 – Millennium Falcon
1/2 – Phantom I
2/2 – Phantom II
2/2 – Sabine’s TIE Fighter
1/2 – U-wing
3/2 – X-wing
2/2 – Y-wing
1/2 – YT-2400
4/4 – Z-95 Headhunter

Galactic Empire Conversion Kit

6/3 – Alpha-class Star Wing
2/3 – Inquisitor’s TIE
1/2 – Lambda-class Shuttle
3/2 – TIE Advanced
3/3 – TIE Aggressor
3/3 – TIE Bomber
3/2 – TIE Defender
5/4 – TIE Fighter
5/3 – TIE Interceptor
3/2 – TIE Phantom
2/2 – TIE Punisher
5/3 – TIE Striker
1/2 – VT-49 Decimator

Scum and Villainy Conversion Kit

0/2 – Hound’s Tooth
2/2 – HWK-290
2/2 – IG-2000
4/3 – Kihraxz Fighter
1/2 – Kimogila Fighter
3/4 – M3-A Interceptor
2/2 – Mist Hunter
2/3 – Protectorate Starfighter
3/2 – Punishing One
1/3 – Quadjumper
1/2 – Scurrg H-6 Bomber
1/2 – Shadow Caster
1/2 – Slave I
5/2 – StarViper
2/2 – Y-wing
4/4 – Z-95 Headhunter

I'm going to choose to be Ok with throwing 1 Awing, 1 Xwing, 1 Kihraxz, 1 jumpmaster, and 3 butterflies away to save $100 dollars.

And some people will do other reasonable things like trade or sell extras, too.

As a point of comparison, the core set for Android Netrunner comes with around 250 cards and a couple sheets of cardboard tokens and costs $40.

The conversion kits have more cards (but I don’t think a lot more), vastly more cardboard (what with the dials and base plates and so on) and plastic medium bases for $10 more. That is a lot more content for that $10.

25 minutes ago, Vontoothskie said:

2) put more in the packs but keep prices the same. enough to run 200 point lists in the new ruleset with the ships of that faction. if a new defender costs 60 points, include 3 conversions for it, etc. still a huge profit

For all we know, they did. we can't say until the app and complete rules are released.

11 minutes ago, Vontoothskie said:

why are you lying?

there is no misinformation in my post.

my personal collection will cost very neary %50 to convert. I dont like that and it seems absurd to me. if you feel conversion cost is reasonable, cool. your collection probably doesnt involve swarms or wings of the same ship

it is not reasonable to pretend that the math isnt real though

No it is misinformation.

You should be looking at splitting kits and the secondary market for your 1 or 2 ships that you swarm beyond the single kit. the fact you have only 34 ships across all 5 factions and think you require 6x of the first 3 factions upgrade kits and are apparently going to just burn the rest of the content in those kits instead of selling it off or trading is what is insane. You will just ignore this logical solution to your problem like you have every other time someone has suggested it so you can complain some more.

Either you pay the high price for your small collection to FFG and be mad about it or you work with other players and use the secondary market to sell/buy what you need and have extra. With your size of collection buying 1x of each conversion will still leave you with 2/3rds of the ships being extra beyond the count you need. Most likely people with your collections should be looking only at the secondary market.

I have some sympathy, I can understand that your collection is not ideal for this conversion process (being top heavy in only a few ships and completely lacking in other ships) but you keep flat out refusing to acknowledge there is other solutions to your problem. For me I will have extra ships from my 2x of each conversion kit (that I feel is a steal of a deal works out to about $2CAD per ship, not including selling any extras off) and I will be selling the extra stuff off cheap to local players in situations like you.

I do feel bad that it's more awkward for you to upgrade efficiently, but not everyone can win in this situation. Some people are going to be put in an annoying position.

16 minutes ago, Rakaydos said:

My collection, vs the conversion kits:

Rebel Alliance Conversion Kit

4/3 – A-wing
2/2 – ARC-170
1/2 – Auzituck Gunship
2/2 – B-wing
2/2 – E-wing
1/2 – Ghost
2/2 – HWK-290
2/2 – K-wing
2/2 – Millennium Falcon
1/2 – Phantom I
2/2 – Phantom II
2/2 – Sabine’s TIE Fighter
1/2 – U-wing
3/2 – X-wing
2/2 – Y-wing
1/2 – YT-2400
4/4 – Z-95 Headhunter

Galactic Empire Conversion Kit

6/3 – Alpha-class Star Wing (including shapeways versions)
2/3 – Inquisitor’s TIE
1/2 – Lambda-class Shuttle
3/2 – TIE Advanced
3/3 – TIE Aggressor
3/3 – TIE Bomber
3/2 – TIE Defender
5/4 – TIE Fighter
5/3 – TIE Interceptor
3/2 – TIE Phantom
2/2 – TIE Punisher
5/3 – TIE Striker
1/2 – VT-49 Decimator

Scum and Villainy Conversion Kit

0/2 – Hound’s Tooth
2/2 – HWK-290
2/2 – IG-2000
4/3 – Kihraxz Fighter
1/2 – Kimogila Fighter
3/4 – M3-A Interceptor
2/2 – Mist Hunter
2/3 – Protectorate Starfighter
3/2 – Punishing One
1/3 – Quadjumper
1/2 – Scurrg H-6 Bomber
1/2 – Shadow Caster
1/2 – Slave I
5/2 – StarViper
2/2 – Y-wing
4/4 – Z-95 Headhunter

I'm going to choose to be Ok with throwing 1 Awing, 1 Xwing, 1 Kihraxz, 1 jumpmaster, and 3 butterflies away to save $100 dollars.

1

You can probably just trade, you have some decent trade items you have extra of.

Simply looking at your list compared to my collection I have extras of probably half the ships you are looking for... and you even have extras of the 3 ships i have that total over the 6x kits i am going to get.

That extra M3A is calling to me.... would gladly trade you a Punishing one for it... if only we were local and could make this easy but my guess is someone local to you will be more then willing to trade.
Anyw