2 minutes ago, player2072913 said:

Not a major aspect and selling point in general, or just not for you?

Because the app is a major aspect and selling point of 2.0 for me.

app =\= smartphone

You can print it out in the library if you are tech-phobic.

1 minute ago, TasteTheRainbow said:

app =\= smartphone

You can print it out in the library if you are tech-phobic.

I love the idea of the app, and all the possibilities it opens up.

I also think it's very thoughtful of ffg to open up alternative methods of accessing the information with it, so that it's benefits reach as many players as possible!

I'm not bothered by people who don't want to convert. I'm bothered by the misinformation that keeps getting repeated as fact.

You don't need a smartphone to play the game. You don't need to bring one to the table with you. You need it for squad building only -- something which tons of people do already, just not with an official FFG app. And the app will be available online and the point values will be available as a printable PDF, so you don't even need a smartphone at all. Regardless, you won't see people at tournaments staring at their smartphones while they're playing.

There won't be content in the expansion packs that isn't in the conversion kits. FFG has said this numerous times, yet somehow, while believing everything else FFG says about 2.0, people don't want to believe this.

Nothing about 2.0 is stopping anyone from playing 1.0. Your collection isn't being confiscated in October. FFG isn't going to scour stores and basements for signs of 1.0 heresy. You're just not going to get new ships. Welcome to every miniatures game that has gotten a new edition since, well, ever.

Now, if you have an issue with the cost of the conversion kits or the amount of ships you can convert or where you think the rules are going, those are all legitimate reasons for deciding 2.0 is not for you. But as this is a discussion board, people will want to discuss those points with you. And, this being the internet, some will be jerks about it. That's how it goes.

10 hours ago, Vontoothskie said:

Why are all these people crying that other people don't think conversion is a good investment? why do they care so much about FFGs profit margin? why do they care if i purchase the type of cell phone they want? Why is it soooo important that we conform to their needs? like did this page get taken over by those incel misogynist cult dudes all the sudden?

I'll try and respond to the first two.

1) I'm typically seeing people try to point out logical flaws in those that say that the conversion kits are a "cash grab."

2) We should care about FFGs profit margin because that profit is what keeps the game going. Certainly that doesn't mean we need to be mindless consumers (I've said I hate the way they package fixes, especially with epic ships), but FFG making a profit helps keep the game going and provides it with more resources to do so.

11 minutes ago, DailyRich said:

I'm not bothered by people who don't want to convert. I'm bothered by the misinformation that keeps getting repeated as fact.

You don't need a smartphone to play the game. You don't need to bring one to the table with you. You need it for squad building only -- something which tons of people do already, just not with an official FFG app. And the app will be available online and the point values will be available as a printable PDF, so you don't even need a smartphone at all. Regardless, you won't see people at tournaments staring at their smartphones while they're playing.

There won't be content in the expansion packs that isn't in the conversion kits. FFG has said this numerous times, yet somehow, while believing everything else FFG says about 2.0, people don't want to believe this.

Nothing about 2.0 is stopping anyone from playing 1.0. Your collection isn't being confiscated in October. FFG isn't going to scour stores and basements for signs of 1.0 heresy. You're just not going to get new ships. Welcome to every miniatures game that has gotten a new edition since, well, ever.

Now, if you have an issue with the cost of the conversion kits or the amount of ships you can convert or where you think the rules are going, those are all legitimate reasons for deciding 2.0 is not for you. But as this is a discussion board, people will want to discuss those points with you. And, this being the internet, some will be jerks about it. That's how it goes.

In fairness, the fact that 2.0 is coming out will mean that most store based 1.0 communities will naturally shift to 2.0. If you relied on a healthy community of 1.0 players to find opponents, I think you'll have some issues once 2.0 comes out. Playing with the latest rules (including the latest editions) usually makes life easier when looking for an actual game.

The app thing is non issue. If you don't want to use it, use the printable paper list instead.

The conversion kit is also a non issue for a lot of people. Everyone should expect some sort of cost involved when moving to a new edition. If you want to play with multiple factions, you should expect your cost to be higher than someone who wants to play with only one faction. If you have a particularly large collection, you should expect your cost to be higher than someone who has a more average collection. If you have particularly large collections of all three factions, you should expect to be in the highest cost category. These are generally known things about table top gaming edition changes. I have an average sized collection of all three factions. I only really ever play Imperials, so I'll buy a single Imperial Conversion Kit and will be fine. I'll shelve the other ships. If I ever want to play them, I'll buy a new upgrade kit.

5 hours ago, Ram said:

Well, it is a cash grab. It is not a horrible cash grab in any way, but it paints a Picture about the financial status of the general x-wing player very well.

I Think FFG is very well aware of what they are doing. They cant reboot with all new ships, too many would quit. So they make the conversion kits. The conversion kits are pretty pricy, but they include a lot of stuff and most players are buying it. They could have sold them for $20 easely I would guess, but since there are loads of cards, dials etc. in there, they figure that they can get $50 for them. And since we are used to pay $25+ for our bigger ships and $30+ for our veteran packs, this feels like a sweet deal for us. Even though we are paying $50 for something that is in essence a pack of cardboard with no ships and that replicates something that we already payed a lot for.

Sane people look at us and go "Huh!?", but we are not sane people, are we?

I would be interested to see the data you have on the $20 price point, as it stands I did not know that ffg release their development, marketing, fabrication, warehousing, and shipping costs to the general public? do you work at FFG and have secret information?

I would be shocked if FFG is turning any kind of reasonable profit on the conversion kits based on the development cost and whatnot that went into them. Where they will make there profit is on the latter expansions of old ships with most of the development done on them already. 14x waves of ship development crammed into a $50 box. the box will have more physical content than most board games and most likely all $50 board games on top of a heavy development cost for all the content.

To be quite honest, I am having trouble seeing the perspective of people that claim they are being gouged or it's a cash grab. So please explain why you think it is a Cash Grab and the price is way to high for whats in the kits? because I just don't see it and have trouble taking people saying that seriously.

Games die.... no part of your payment for 1.0 guaranteed a large player base with organized play in perpetuity. FFG could have easily said 1.0 is over and started 100% fresh with 2.0 with no conversion kits.

All this being said, I know a few of my local group has very tight budgets for x-wing and I am going to do my best to help them by piecing out my extra ships (thinking a $1 a ship as they have no use to me, not sure the upgrade card counts and whats ships are double sided on what cardboard but there should be some.) and making sure they know they can borrow anything they need from me until they get there collection going, its a community in the end and I want everyone to still be playing and happy.

1 hour ago, player2072913 said:

Not a major aspect and selling point in general, or just not for you?

Because the app is a major aspect and selling point of 2.0 for me.

In general, because the app is not smartphone exclusive. It's as well an web app which runs fine from desktops, laptops, windows/mac/linux/free-bsd/unix etc, basically anything with a browser. Let's face it, using a PC to build and PRINT your lists is a lot more convenient than a smartphone. A lot of people still have not figured out how to print from their smartphones, even when it is as trivial as getting an USB-connector in on first try. ?

Hmm thinking?

ok games need to progress and expand yes i can see that, they sometimes need rule adjustments i get that as well.

That said, when your customer base has already spent, i would guess, several hundred Pounds/ Dollars at least on your products to turn round and tell them they will be unable to use those products without spending more money, which of course doesn't guarantee you could use everything even after you spend that money (I would like to see a Full and Complete detailed list of what the conversion kits will cover, will it be every ship and card sold so far?), that does give the impression of money grabbing, whether it is or not.

That said again, what seals the deal on money grabbing is still going ahead with and positively advertising products that will clearly be of no use within a few months, name Wave XIV, just cancel it, whats the point?, make those ships the first wave in 2.0 instead.

If a company wants to change their systems, ok, but you don't keep pumping out products on essentially dis-continued games as well, just to make a few more bucks, that is cheap and grubby.

As to the feeling i'm getting that some here don't feel they are being listened to as fans, why would you be? this is Disney Star Wars (behind the scenes at least) look at what The Last Jedi has done to the general Star Wars fanbase, and Disney couldn't care less, the glory days of Star Wars are gone i feel.

I think I will bowing out of X-wing with 2.0

Sad times indeed

10 minutes ago, Icelom said:

I would be interested to see the data you have on the $20 price point, as it stands I did not know that ffg release their development, marketing, fabrication, warehousing, and shipping costs to the general public? do you work at FFG and have secret information?

I would be shocked if FFG is turning any kind of reasonable profit on the conversion kits based on the development cost and whatnot that went into them. Where they will make there profit is on the latter expansions of old ships with most of the development done on them already. 14x waves of ship development crammed into a $50 box. the box will have more physical content than most board games and most likely all $50 board games on top of a heavy development cost for all the content.

I'll be honest and say that I wouldn't be surprised if FFG is making a decent amount on the conversion kits, and I'm actually OK with that...because with the creation of the kit (and future "wave" kits) they just aren't going to be making nearly as much money off of those with large 1.0 collections unless they are going to double the number of players.

Hmm thinking?

ok games need to progress and expand yes i can see that, they sometimes need rule adjustments i get that as well.

That said, when your customer base has already spent, i would guess, several hundred Pounds/ Dollars at least on your products to turn round and tell them they will be unable to use those products without spending more money, which of course doesn't guarantee you could use everything even after you spend that money (I would like to see a Full and Complete detailed list of what the conversion kits will cover, will it be every ship and card sold so far?), that does give the impression of money grabbing, whether it is or not.

That said again, what seals the deal on money grabbing is still going ahead with and positively advertising products that will clearly be of no use within a few months, namely Wave XIV, just cancel it, whats the point?, make those ships the first wave in 2.0 instead.

If a company wants to change their systems, ok, but you don't keep pumping out products on essentially dis-continued games as well, just to make a few more bucks, that is cheap and grubby.

As to the feeling i'm getting that some here don't feel they are being listened to as fans, why would you be? this is Disney Star Wars (behind the scenes at least) look at what The Last Jedi has done to the general Star Wars fanbase, and Disney couldn't care less, the glory days of Star Wars are gone i feel.

I think I will bowing out of X-wing with 2.0

Sad times indeed

1 minute ago, Slash Macbain said:

That said again, what seals the deal on money grabbing is still going ahead with and positively advertising products that will clearly be of no use within a few months, name Wave XIV, just cancel it, whats the point?, make those ships the first wave in 2.0 instead.

They are.

1 minute ago, Slash Macbain said:

advertising products that will clearly be of no use within a few months, name Wave XIV, just cancel it, whats the point?, make those ships the first wave in 2.0 instead.

Wave XIV is exactly that - the boxes contain both 1e and 2e components.

6 minutes ago, Slash Macbain said:

That said, when your customer base has already spent, i would guess, several hundred Pounds/ Dollars at least on your products to turn round and tell them they will be unable to use those products in 2.0 without spending more money, which of course doesn't guarantee you could use everything even after you spend that money (I would like to see a Full and Complete detailed list of what the conversion kits will cover, will it be every ship and card sold so far?), that does give the impression of money grabbing, whether it is or not (by this definition all companies who make a new edition of something would be at fault).

That said again, what seals the deal on money grabbing is still going ahead with and positively advertising products that will clearly be of no use within a few months, name Wave XIV, just cancel it, whats the point?, make those ships the first wave in 2.0 instead. (They are 1.0 compatible and you don't need to buy them. They have made this very clear.)

If a company wants to change their systems, ok, but you don't keep pumping out products on essentially dis-continued games as well, just to make a few more bucks, that is cheap and grubby. (At least they made the product for people to have instead of making it solely for 2.0, and you don't need to buy them...that sounds like not cheap and grubby to me. Its also only 1 product.)

As to the feeling i'm getting that some here don't feel they are being listened to as fans, why would you be? this is Disney Star Wars (behind the scenes at least) look at what The Last Jedi has done to the general Star Wars fanbase, and Disney couldn't care less, the glory days of Star Wars are gone i feel. (I am not the biggest Disney fan either )

I think I will bowing out of X-wing with 2.0 (Fair)

Sad times indeed

My critiques and changes are in bold.

4 minutes ago, Slash Macbain said:

Hmm thinking?

ok games need to progress and expand yes i can see that, they sometimes need rule adjustments i get that as well.

That said, when your customer base has already spent, i would guess, several hundred Pounds/ Dollars at least on your products to turn round and tell them they will be unable to use those products without spending more money, which of course doesn't guarantee you could use everything even after you spend that money (I would like to see a Full and Complete detailed list of what the conversion kits will cover, will it be every ship and card sold so far?), that does give the impression of money grabbing, whether it is or not.

That said again, what seals the deal on money grabbing is still going ahead with and positively advertising products that will clearly be of no use within a few months, namely Wave XIV, just cancel it, whats the point?, make those ships the first wave in 2.0 instead.

If a company wants to change their systems, ok, but you don't keep pumping out products on essentially dis-continued games as well, just to make a few more bucks, that is cheap and grubby.

As to the feeling i'm getting that some here don't feel they are being listened to as fans, why would you be? this is Disney Star Wars (behind the scenes at least) look at what The Last Jedi has done to the general Star Wars fanbase, and Disney couldn't care less, the glory days of Star Wars are gone i feel.

I think I will bowing out of X-wing with 2.0

Sad times indeed

The last wave 1.0 ships were released in December of 2017 10 months before 2.0 is set to start...

How much lead time do they need to give on there 2.0? 2 years? 3 years? I don't know what you expect here.

the wave 14 coming out is 2.0 compatible it will have all the 2.0 stuff in it, this is why people get cranky the "anti convert" crowd keeps posting plainly false statements about the switchover.

4 minutes ago, svelok said:

Wave XIV is exactly that - the boxes contain both 1e and 2e components.

I haven't searched every forum yet, and nothing stated on the product pages, but I will assume you have done the research for me lol

But that is one good thing to hear at least, lets see if that pushes the price up more than the extra $5 there already seems to be between 1.0 and 2.0 prices

5 minutes ago, LifeGain said:

My critiques and changes are in bold.

Yes ALL companies are at fault, i wasn't saying this is limited to FFG

2 minutes ago, Slash Macbain said:

I haven't searched every forum yet, and nothing stated on the product pages, but I will assume you have done the research for me lol

But that is one good thing to hear at least, lets see if that pushes the price up more than the extra $5 there already seems to be between 1.0 and 2.0 prices

"This expansion contains a pre-painted TIE reaper miniature as well as all the upgrade cards, ship cards, and tokens that you need to incorporate the ship into both first and second edition squadrons. We'll take a closer look at the second edition parts of this expansion in a future preview!" - Crush the rebellion FFG artical

It's in the main empire article... and in the main rebel article. It's not hidden or anything they put it right in the announcement articles for the game.

4 minutes ago, Icelom said:

"This expansion contains a pre-painted TIE reaper miniature as well as all the upgrade cards, ship cards, and tokens that you need to incorporate the ship into both first and second edition squadrons. We'll take a closer look at the second edition parts of this expansion in a future preview!" - Crush the rebellion FFG artical

It's in the main empire article... and in the main rebel article. It's not hidden or anything they put it right in the announcement articles for the game.

Serious have you got a link? coz I'm damned if I can find that on any page I have looked at? haha

1 minute ago, Slash Macbain said:

Serious have you got a link? coz I'm damned if I can find that on any page I have looked at? haha

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2018/5/1/crush-the-rebellion-1/

literally, the article i quoted... near the bottom is the "fear the reaper" section

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2018/5/1/all-wings-report-in-1/

again "Extreme Action" section near the bottom

3 minutes ago, Icelom said:

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2018/5/1/crush-the-rebellion-1/

literally, the article i quoted... near the bottom is the "fear the reaper" section

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2018/5/1/all-wings-report-in-1/

again "Extreme Action" section near the bottom

Thank You

8 hours ago, Tooka-cat said:

For the record you absolutely do NOT need to use a smart phone with the game. You can use the web version (which I'm betting you already use a third-party force builder on the web). And if you really do love working it all out with paper, pencil, and a calculator you can use the free PDF with the point values and upgrade slots instead. So please just drop that complaint already.

This times 1000.

I think people are nasty when you:

1. Make multiple threads about the same thing.

2. Make false statements in those threads

3. Ignore people when they point out you're giving incorrect information.

4. Repeat that false info

Then again I'd certainly categorize doing those 4 things as being pretty nasty yourself. So glass houses and such.

I personally cannot stand the app idea. I know why it was done, and the benefits of the app.

I often throw have game nights with people that don’t play a lot of sophisticated board games. I try and throw one into the night, while most others are like Cards Against Humanity. (The Resistance has been the only real successful one to stick.)

I have had a couple people interested in X-Wing.

An APP/Reference will be a hinderance for casual introductions into the game. (Especially for people who have played Pokémon/Magic in the past who enjoy list building.) In 1.0 I personally understood almost instantly what upgrad cards I could have just by glancing at the pilot card.

I am often hosting with my stuff.

The app is just an unneeded level of bureaucracy for a casual game and for people who use your set.

Anyways. Tomorrow I will be updating the X-Wing One website with at least stated goals and how I plan to keep X-Wing 1.0 fun for us hold outs. (I am leaning more and more on purchasing 2.0, but it will be used much much less that 1.0 due to the groups I play with.)

www.xwingone.com

5 minutes ago, Jadotch said:

I personally cannot stand the app idea. I know why it was done, and the benefits of the app.

I often throw have game nights with people that don’t play a lot of sophisticated board games. I try and throw one into the night, while most others are like Cards Against Humanity. (The Resistance has been the only real successful one to stick.)

I have had a couple people interested in X-Wing.

An APP/Reference will be a hinderance for casual introductions into the game. (Especially for people who have played Pokémon/Magic in the past who enjoy list building.) In 1.0 I personally understood almost instantly what upgrad cards I could have just by glancing at the pilot card.

The app is just an unneeded level of bureaucracy for a casual game and for people who use your set.

Anyways. Tomorrow I will be updating the X-Wing One website with at least stated goals and how I plan to keep X-Wing 1.0 fun for us hold outs. (I am leaning more and more on purchasing 2.0, but it will be used much less that 1.0 due to the groups I playing.)

www.xwingone.com

They added the quick build system.... a system far better at the initial introduction into the game, a lot easier to understand and use.

If using the PDF or the app is to complex for your new players then pulling out a giant stack of cards is also to complex, the quick build system is a massive improvement for you.

I just don't get it. You are complaining about something they have improved for you in 2.0....

2 minutes ago, Jadotch said:

I personally cannot stand the app idea. I know why it was done, and the benefits of the app.

I often throw have game nights with people that don’t play a lot of sophisticated board games. I try and throw one into the night, while most others are like Cards Against Humanity. (The Resistance has been the only real successful one to stick.)

I have had a couple people interested in X-Wing.

An APP/Reference will be a hinderance for casual introductions into the game. (Especially for people who have played Pokémon/Magic in the past who enjoy list building.) In 1.0 I personally understood almost instantly what upgrad cards I could have just by glancing at the pilot card.

I am often hosting with my stuff.

The app is just an unneeded level of bureaucracy for a casual game and for people who use your set.

Anyways. Tomorrow I will be updating the X-Wing One website with at least stated goals and how I plan to keep X-Wing 1.0 fun for us hold outs. (I am leaning more and more on purchasing 2.0, but it will be used much less that 1.0 due to the groups I playing.)

www.xwingone.com

The game is going to come with "quick-build" cards where you'll need neither the APP nor the web-based builder nor the PDF file. Just pick the threat level of the game and pick ships amounting to the chosen level. The card gives the pilots and upgrades. They should be good for quick pick-up games with the casuals.