Hi all,

I used to play the GW 2nd edition Talisman waaay back when I was a teenager. Now my kids are at that age I decided to give it a whirl and buy the new revised edition (not sure what happened to all my old stuff but I think it got trashed after I left it in my parents house after leaving home... oops) and the good news is we are all having great fun with it.

I'd like to get one of the expansions as one of my son's birthday presents (seems unfair not to get something else when this will be used by all) but am not sure which one to get.

I'm sure he'd like the Dungeon expansion but I can't help feeling space will be an issue as the current board and cards etc don't leave much space on our table. Also with generally only having 3 players (my wife has refrained from getting involved yet, but there's still time!!) do we really need more space to spread out in?

Personally I think I most like the look of the Frostmarch but I read some comments about them getting the colours wrong on the cards - I remember similar problems from the old Adventure/Expansion cards as well and it does spoil things a little knowing which set the card comes from. My mind boggles at how they could get this basic thing wrong yet again, so I'm hoping someone will confirm it's untrue or fixed in a subsequent print.

Which leaves the Reaper which does look much like the old Expansion but with added Warlock quests and the Reaper. Mostly this one looks good and the reviews seem to think it's the best place to start. My only concern is the Reaper character itself putting my wife of giving it a go as thes a bit superstitious about such things... then again if she can't get over that she's probably never going to get hooked anyway.

So I'm thinking the Reaper is a solid choice, but in truth I think I prefer the concept of the Frostmarch one and would like someone to recommend that one too.

We aren't too bothered about the odd overpowered character as when the kids draw it it gives me a reasonable handicap, although they tend to like ganging up on me anyway... like last night.

Cheers!

Sound like you have given this quite a lot of thought

As you say, the dungeon expansion takes some space, and if that is a problem one of the mini-expansions are a good idea!

Whether to get frostmarch or reaper expansion aren't that all important. Both of them gives additional adventure cards, spell cards and warlock quests and not to forget characters!

The main difference between them is that the Frostmarch add 3 alternative ending cards. So far my group have not played with them as we are satisfied with the original ending as it is.

The Reaper gives additionally the Reaper figure which moves around the board everytime a player rolls *1* for his movement. The Reaper can then occasionally land on a player (according to the wish of the player that rolled *1* for the movement) and the affected player that is ''attacked'' by the reaper have to roll a die to see what happens to him. *5-6* are so called safe rolls, so the chances are higher that someting bad happens.

In this way the Reaper is another playing, just being controlled by whoever rolls a *1* for their movement, and it really adds another exciting aspect of the game itself. I am not sure if the Reaper was part of the earlier eddition, but it was a bloody great idea to induce it into the Talisman series

Hope it helps,

SC

Yes the Reaper itself does sound interesting, although it might be a bit annoying for the kids to lose in that way it does give them an 'easy' way to pick on me... so as a game mechanic it would probably suit us.

Is it true about the Frostmarch card colours being wrong? Truth be told that's the main thing putting me off it.

I'm sure ultimately we will end up with all the mini-expansions anyway. If we went for the big boxes we would need to start playing on the floor I think, which would probably mean we have to go and play in my daughter's bedroom! Not so good if she doesn't want to play, but we could always miss out the extra maps for smaller games just me and my son.

Deleted: Repeat post due to messing up quote insert.

StormCaller said:

No the Reaper is new with FFG. I think this Reaper sounds very similar to either Talisman Expansion or Talisman Adventure from 2nd edition. We had them all so I don't recall which cards came with which set but I know many of the Reaper ones are familiar to me.

Overall I really like this 4th Edition, they have cleared up a lot of the confusing parts of the game and made it much more balanced, and the fate adds a bit more skill too. Although it does mean considerably less deaths and toadings, which is a shame. Only toading in about 5 games so far was when I got greedy and rerolled a lose craft at the enchantress. If I remembered how bad Toad was I wouldn't have risked it.

Which wasn't a bad thing as it meant my son got to win his first ever game.

Hehe, yeah, faith doesn't always go in your favour, been there, done that

About the miscolouring.. That's new for me, maybe someone else reading this on the forums have any thoughts about it.

SC

I,ve been playing with the Frostmarch expansion and the cards are fine. Nothing wrong with the colors. My kids and I really enjoy this expansion. My wife is hooked on this game also and wants the dungeon expansion next. Have not tried the Reaper yet but am looking forward to adding it into the mix also.

Hope that helps about the coloring of the cards. Like I said no problems here.

You won't go far wrong with either Reaper ot Frostmarch. I saw no problem with any cards or characters, but I don't much care for the Warlock as a character.

Since you have kids, and even if you did not, I also reccomend a visit to talismanisland and look at the free to down load fan expansions.

Nothing is more fun that a big old craft night, especially when you get to use your results in your favorite game.

Nicely put, Feldrik! Not that fan expansions will ever replace the quality and nature of commercial ones, but there's usually something in there that will appeal to most players as an occasional or regular addition. And as to the crafting part... kids love that!

I have the Reaper expansion but not the Frostmarch yet.

My wife (only other player) refuses to play with it for same sort of reasons.

I did laugh when she drew Ghoul as her character last time out......until she beat me. Again.

I have dungeon but we have not used it as with 2 players would be too many spaces.

The first expansion we got was the Dungeon and it's great. Yes there is the issue with extra board, but... there's more board! It's going to be a problem when there is all 4 corners filled, we'll jump off that cliff then. The Dungeon has lots of great new objects and followers, some of which only work in the Dungeon, + the Dungeon Treasure cards which add a nice boost to the game.

With the smaller expansions, I would recommend getting the Reaper first, then Frostmarch, just because Frostmarch grows on the Warlock Quest rules introduced in the Reaper. There are 12 in the Reaper and about 20 more in the Frostmarch, not sure off hand. The Reaper NPC is great and has definitly changed the tides of the game here!

Great descriptions posted above on the actual differences and what's included in each, nothing to add there, except that the expansion characters are great and that is almost my primary reason for getting new kits!

We're also playing with the Ice Queen and Toad King NPC's from talismanisland and they are a lot of fun. You'll need the Frostmarch set to play with the Ice Queen, but anyone can be playing with the Toad King =)

The Frostmarch Adventure card backs have a slightly more yellow tint here, and the Spell card backs are darker, but the actual card content seems totally normal. I never pay attention to the card piles anyways to think 'oh, that next card is...' so it hasn't made any difference. I've just noticed and that's all, no big.

With the Frostmarch expansion, there is a problem with the cutting of the cards.They are not printed in the centre.

On top of that, some cards are also fray.

I also saw some colour difference from the characters from the Frostmarch expansion. But it's not much..

BanthaFodder, try using parts of the Dungeon. For example, when a dungeon door is drawn it does not count as a card on the space but it indicates you must draw dungeon cards for that space for the rest of the game.

You can use the Warlock Quests as well. Start with 3 to 5 of them. When you finish one you can draw a random Dungeon Treasure as a reward.

Just some ideas , back to the original topic while we still have one wheel on the tracks.

I have all the expansion sets and we played with all of them this last weekend. When we separated the cards, I noticed some where a lighter color than most. I believe it was the spell cards, on the Frostmarch expansion. I’ll look tonight and let you know.

Thanks all for the advice. Seems a very active and helpful community here on the Talisman forums.

I have ordered both Reaper and Frostmarch expansions. Now I just have to restrain myself into keeping them for birthday presents if possible, rather than just open them right away like I did with the game itself (which was originally supposed to be a present...). It seemed reasonable to give him it early when it's as much for me as it is for him.

Of course there's no reason we can't find something else... whoops I'm starting to buckle already.

Orion3T said:

I looked last night, and I was correct. The spell cards in my Frostmarch expansion set are more purple than blue. I purchased that expansion set 2 weeks ago. It's a shade or two different.

Color tone differences have been around since 2E. You'll get used to it.

JCHendee said:

Just because it happened back in 2E, which I recall very clearly happened with both spell and adventure cards, does not mean it should be acceptable! Really the whole point of a deck of cards is that you have no idea what's coming up, so the most basic thing to get wrong is the colour of the backs of the card. The only worse thing would be making them the wrong size altogether.

Of course if there's enough cards it won't make any real difference to the game, it just seems a somewhat lower production standard than we have come to expect from FFG.

Either way Reaper arrived today and Frostmarch is expected to follow shortly. Now I just have to decide whether to treat ourselves or whether they get kept for birthday stocking fillers.

Orion3T said:

I've seen it in other products as well... and yes, I'm talking about FFG as well as other companies and products beyond games. You obviously don't know much about print production.

Variances occur between print runs of all products that go through a printing process. The variance occurs for a good dozen factors. It may be minor or severe, depending on how many factors of variance converge in a particular print run. One hopes for minor variance. One hopes that all involved in production (seldom the same entities or individuals doing design and sales) are attentive. No matter what, the cards are still playable.

Orion3T said:

Hyperbole and exaggeration won't make your point with me. Fraying caused by improper fitting, alignment, and maintenance of cutting equipment is more serious than a color deviation.... and 100 times more likely than a box showing with the wrong size of cards. Just ask anyone around here.

yes, the cards in these two sets (frostmarch and base set) are slightly different in color. one is a greener tint, the other brown.

JCHendee,

Isn't it where "quality control" and "proofing" departments should be involve?

Of course, one can say that 2nd edition was worse and indeed it was, but it is still very sad to see that even with all the improvement done since the 2nd edition came out that these kind of error still happen!

The only perfect edition in that respect was the 1st edition (black and white)

Cheers

Old Master said:

Yes, but does FFG have its own production operation, or is production shopped out? We really don't know at this point, though I suppose someone could ask if it's really that serious an issue. On the other hand, it wouldn't make any difference.

I'm seen tonal variation in book covers, but do you think their going to send back 5000 or 25000 paperbacks to be ripped up because the colors aren't exactly the same between the first edition and the thirteenth. Or between book 3 and book 6 in a series that are supposed to use the same color tones on on matching design features aside from differing illustrations?

No.

Quality control is about testing sample units (usually less than 1% of them) for usability and soundness of a product... not about micro variations in cosmetics. And if print runs are done even smaller, say in 500 unit lots, then variations between say the 10th and 11th might not be as noticable as between the 5th and the 50th. Smaller print runs = more printings = equals the potential for more micro variations building up.

There is a lot more to it than people are aware of. There are a lot more important things as well.

Old Master said:

So true... now can you imagine selling B&W as the answer to some people complaining about color variation? And yet wouldn't they play just the same?

Uh…sorry for answering the question! Also clarification – I bought 4ER about a year ago (original belonged to a friend who no longer lives close). Yes it is true that colors can vary. That is why when bridesmaids dresses are ordered they get them from the same lot. Even though it is the ”same color”, one batch of paint can vary from the next.

JCHendee said:

I’m sure there is, but as I assume we are all crazy about this game (if we weren't, would we really be on these forums? ), it would be nice if all the cards could be the same color in all the expansions. The Frostmarch set appears to be the only one that has a difference in color shade. I can buy Monopoly for $15, or Talisman 4ER for $40. Would you expect the quality of a Mercedes to be that of a Chevrolet? No. The Mercedes obviously is a better quality car and costs more because of it . I feel that FFG is a higher quality BG company than Hasbro. Obviously so does FFG, since they charge 2.6 times what a Monopoly game costs. Therefore quality should be better.

I am not saying their quality is bad, but as a consumer, I don’t feel I’m out of line to expect better quality than other BG makers.

I'm not sure your comparison stacks up as Monopoly is a hugely mass produced game and therefore costs would be low because of it.

Colour variations, though a bugbear, will always exist. If FFG was to invest in making every colour perfect the costs involved would be prohibitively high.

And the color issues for a Monopoly game are not even close to the same as for Talisman. The comparison carries no weight. Monoply uses mostly spot color. Talisman components use mostly composite color.