Just now, GreenDragoon said:

I think we talk past each other. I don't understand what you are saying here.
My point is that he will never be able to field all these ships. So most of his ships will always remain on the shelf, both during 1.0 and during 2.0 times. And the only difference is that he - and only he - now knows that he could not fly all of them at the same time if he wanted for some reason. Something I bet has not happened. And I say that as someone who provides the minis for 6 people, sometimes playing 2vs2 epic. That is still not enough to field all my ships.

My point is that one kit is not enough to fly four X Wings. It's not enough to fly three Y Wings. It's not enough to fly three B Wings or four A Wings or basically anything more than two of anything. So he's restricted to only use lists comprising two of this ship and two of that ship.

The first thing I want to do with 2.0 is see how a half-squadron of X Wings does against a bunch of TIE fighters.

But that will cost me $210 with official kits, because six X Wings requires three conversion kits.

Yes, proxying will solve a lot of problems, but it's hard to predict just how much proxying will be needed until we have more information.

All I'm saying is that it's fair for everyone to acknowledge that only playing with lists that are viable from a single conversion kit places a lot of restrictions on a player, especially if that player prefers non-standard games.

Look, no one buys a ship with no plan of ever using it. I mean, unless you're just collecting for it's own sake, but that's pretty rare I'd think. If someone buys an eighth X Wing it's because they plan to fly eight X Wings at some point. If they have six B Wings it's because they plan to use six B Wings. With a large collection, a single kit instantly limits all those builds. It takes more kits to open those options back up, and the kits aren't cheap. I just wish people could acknowledge that.

2 minutes ago, Chucknuckle said:

My point is that one kit is not enough to fly four X Wings. It's not enough to fly three Y Wings. It's not enough to fly three B Wings or four A Wings or basically anything more than two of anything. So he's restricted to only use lists comprising two of this ship and two of that ship.

The first thing I want to do with 2.0 is see how a half-squadron of X Wings does against a bunch of TIE fighters.

But that will cost me $210 with official kits, because six X Wings requires three conversion kits.

Yes, proxying will solve a lot of problems, but it's hard to predict just how much proxying will be needed until we have more information.

All I'm saying is that it's fair for everyone to acknowledge that only playing with lists that are viable from a single conversion kit places a lot of restrictions on a player, especially if that player prefers non-standard games.

Look, no one buys a ship with no plan of ever using it. I mean, unless you're just collecting for it's own sake, but that's pretty rare I'd think. If someone buys an eighth X Wing it's because they plan to fly eight X Wings at some point. If they have six B Wings it's because they plan to use six B Wings. With a large collection, a single kit instantly limits all those builds. It takes more kits to open those options back up, and the kits aren't cheap. I just wish people could acknowledge that. 

I still don't understand.

First, you said it yourself: until we have more information. So why this outrage now when we don't even know whether it is justified or not?

Second, that focus on non-competitive games solves all the problems as far as I'm concerned (and it is my preferred way to play for the last few months). One kit is not enough to fly four X-wings? You will get Saw's renegades and a standard kit anyway, and then you have enough to fly four. For Y-wings, B-wings and A-wings (and 4-5 Awings are my favorite lists!) you can proxy. You can see how it is and then decide whether you want to get additional ones from ebay or the rumored smaller/individual conversion packs.

The TAP, Defender and TIE Advanced are all I have left of my collection. And a Gunboat.

Cheers

Baaa

You have to buy the core set. And I assume you're buying Saw's Renegades. Add a single Rebel conversion kit, that's four playable 2.0 X-Wings.

4 hours ago, Chucknuckle said:

The attitude of "oh you have lots of ships, the cost of conversion will be trivial in comparison" is flawed because people have had years to build these collections one ship at a time.

And the response of "well, you can just spend years saving to buy all the conversion kits you need" is equally flawed.

Some people, to upgrade to 2.0, are staring down the barrel of a very expensive purchase. We don't need to belittle those people or yell them their concerns are invalid. They have a legitimate grievance.

Why does someone who has many 1.0 ships have a legitimate grievance? In what way are they being penalised?

They get to the same choice as anyone else. Pay to upgrade ships or don't pay to upgrade ships.

It could be argued that the player with a small collection has to pay more per ship as they won't get to use every card in a conversion kit. The player with a large collection will get to use every card in a conversion kit. A great big bundle of stuff in a box is better for the huge collection than the small collection.

Unless you're suggesting that the player with lots of ships is somehow entitled to a much bigger discount than the player with a small number of ships. And that's just ridiculous.

31 minutes ago, Chucknuckle said:

Look, no one buys a ship with no plan of ever using it. I mean, unless you're just collecting for it's own sake, but that's pretty rare I'd think.

Incorrect, many bought ships just for cards because v1 was lame like that.

This would be a great time to make the proof of purchase punch-outs worth something. Maybe the distributer could give store credit towards a conversion kit,, $2 per punchout? Or mail-in punch-outs for discount coupons?

Yeah, for those wanting to field 3+ of certain ships it does get expensive. Personally I’d have preferred only 1 each of the large based ships and 3-4 of all the small ones in each conversion pack.

Heres how I look at it, as someone with a collection that in theory would require 2+ of each conversion pack:

with a core set and one conversion pack, I will be able to use multiples of every ship in my collection. If FFG did a decent job with the new mechanics and points, in reality I’ll be able to put more of my collection on the table than before. I can’t remember the last time I used an a wing, certainly not all 6 of the ones I own at once. If in 2.0 I can field my B wings, e wings, a wings, y wings with something other than TLT stapled to them, etc... I’ll be happy.

So, yeah, I need 3 rebel conversion sets to update just my rebel collection currently. I’m not going to do that though, it would just be a waste of money. If I can play epic with a good mix of ships happily, great. Instead of 6 x wings and 6 y wings, I’m Ok mixing it up with my other ships, in fact I’m looking forward to it. You can easily field 400+ point (I guess 800+ soon) worth of ships from the conversion pack + a new core.

Again, I DO wish they’d given us a extra pair of certain ships. a wings and y wings most of all for rebels, tie fighters and interceptors for imperial to help cover the epic players, but in reality there should be a ton of playability in any format with just a single conversion pack.

49 minutes ago, Baaa said:

The TAP, Defender and TIE Advanced are all I have left of my collection. And a Gunboat.

Cheers

Baaa

Lies ! I see a tie interceptor, a tie fighter and a tie punisher !

v 1.0 will not magically disappear from your house on October.

You want to field everything? Play 1.0 with your friends.

v. 2.0 is starting a new game that can be steadily bought anew, or played with the figurines of another game with a conversion kit.

I mean you cannot use more ships than that are in 1 conversion pack anyway right? I mean 2 kits would be enough for all the ships you can possibly fit into 100 points, with the exception of Epic, but those dont have conversions yet anyway, and how often do you play that anyway?

PS. I am predicting that someone will show up and say: ''I play Epic every week... So that is super important to me!''

-How many conversion sets do I need?

-What do you want to fly?

-I don't know because we don't have complete rules or points?

-...so how is anyone here supposed to know what you need?

Moving on, there's nothing that says you have to play every ship, from every faction at launch. You built up 1.0 over time, do 2.0 the same way. Pick a conversion kit for chosen faction with a starter set and start flying. Once you and everyone else has a better idea of the rules, pick up targeted extra conversion sets i.e. I've got a cool list idea, I'll pick up the 1-2 conversion sets to build it and test it out. This "must get all the ships legal at once!" attitude baffles me because I'd bet money you didn't just go into a LGS and drop a few thousand on everything you have now and I also bet money at least half if not 70-80% of that hasn't seen the table in the last year. You didn't build your whole collection at once, you've never flown your whole collection at once, and we don't even have enough rules and points to know what may or may not be good/fun (depending on how you like to fly). Don't worry about it and get what you need as you need it.

No, you’ve shown why 2E will cost *you* a lot if you convert everything

For most of the rest of us who don’t have that level of plastic crack addiction, it will cost a lot less.

Too lazy to photo bucket, but I will need

3 imps

2 rebels

2 scum

Prediction

3 first order

3 resistance

1 epic

13 minutes ago, Hawkstrike said:

No, you’ve shown why 2E will cost *you* a lot if you convert everything

For most of the rest of us who don’t have that level of plastic crack addiction, it will cost a lot less.

Yeah you’re right it will cost me a lot to upgrade

yes it’s my fault

I own my failures

Maybe i wanted to replace my Star Wars collection I had as a kid that was given away by my family

But because I didn’t want to photocopy cards or print them out at home

just to get enough of the specific cards I needed to be able to field the build I wanted I purchased heavily

I ultimately realised this and for my local league fielded 4 blue b-wing and a z95 (bbbbz)

No upgrades nothing and I won the league

because I learnt to fly really well

but if FFG offered an upgrade system to get replacement cards for your original purchases at a sensible cost

I’d be happy

what we’re all those purchase tokens for (either card or cut out) if not for this possible solution ?

i collected them all What for ? Fun ?

It just seems like the distribution of cards for each con kit could’ve softened the blow

ok I have a crazy collection but I don’t have 2 ghosts or 2 of each rebel phantoms and yeah loads of T65 x-wings

but only 2 sets in the con kit ?

I just wish FFG had given more thought about what their loyal players would need

rather than here’s the basic and buy as much as you need

but I suppose that’s what they do

that’s why I will buy the app, work out what I really need

then buy the con kits as required, probably buy from eBay single items to get a “full” set without having loads of cards left over I will never need or use (like I already have)

My original post was to encourage people to show how much they had invested

This has obviously backfired and it’s broken down into the usual 2.0 moaning thread

that is my mistake

not buying loads of ships to play a game From something I love

I have a reasonable collection spread across the 3 factions.

I'm not a competitive player just casual and I really like themed lists/games.

One of my lists was a Black Sun list with 4 Star Vipers and 4 Z-95's. To play this list now I'll need 2 Scum and Villainy Conversion kits to get the dials for the Star Vipers.

This will give me dials, baseplates, etc for 98 ships even though I only have 21 models which need these items. Effectively I'm paying around 80% of the price of the conversion kits for "useless" components.

As I have 4 X-Wings I'm in a similar situation needing 2 Conversion kits if I want to field them all. Again this gives me 74 dials,etc when I only need them for 19 ships.

Another 2 Conversion kits needed for my Imperials though I actually almost get half the number of useable dials in this instance.

Given that my financial circumstances altered drastically a while ago I certainly don't have the money to purchase all of these over any reasonable time scale so I'm either going to be left playing version 1 (if I can find an opponent after version 2 comes out), playing with lists I'm not happy with or playing with sub-standard proxies.

Thanks FFG, I really like your games but this change to version 2 is pretty much going to kill this game for me.

4 hours ago, Dice lord said:

The OP has stated that they're interested in bigger battles - fielding more than 2 x-wings say.

Heck, a single conversion kit for rebels and imperials doesn't even allow for a very interesting trench run game!

Not everyone is about 100/6 (yawn)

Epic hasn’t been upgraded yet. He can still run epic with 1e rules just like my brother and friend are doing. Epic is a great format that maybe doesn’t need the 2e rules updates. He still has a great game if he only uses 1e epic format from now on.

24 minutes ago, stet2 said:

One of my lists was a Black Sun list with 4 Star Vipers and 4 Z-95's. To play this list now I'll need 2 Scum and Villainy Conversion kits to get the dials for the Star Vipers.

no you won't

if you put in just a bit of effort, you can find these on a third party market

FFG also mentioned selling additional cardboard only packs so veteran players wouldn't have to buy re-released models if they came with new upgrades. these might wait until the ship gets re-released, though

sadly, the x-wings might be harder unless you got an empire player willing to part with the core set content. This sucks, but assuming you can't find a 3rd party replacement, the standalone model is still less than half a kit

finally, you get a LOT of options with a kit if you feel like playing 2.0 without going whole hog. You won't be able to immediately run spam, but considering the balance overhaul you almost definitely won't need to...unless ffg **** it up

kits also give your old collection some resale value as the models are not being rendered pointless in 2.0

16 minutes ago, Dpro said:

Epic hasn’t been upgraded yet. He can still run epic with 1e rules just like my brother and friend are doing. Epic is a great format that maybe doesn’t need the 2e rules updates. He still has a great game if he only uses 1e epic format from now on.

and this also bears mentioning

I also have a large collection - but I don't see a major problem.

I will get the new core plus one of each conversion kit. These will cost about £135 (possibly less since not all offers are available yet) or the same as buying all the ships in each wave.

For spam lists? I will borrow bits from my friends.

For official epic? We don't have any rules or guidance, so don't spend a pile of money on anything or you'll probably regret it.

For casual, home games? Proxy. Or play v1. You have 16 tie fighters? The dial hasn't changed, what's the problem?

2 hours ago, Chucknuckle said:

It's not in his mind. It's a real limitation. It boils down to "just fly what I think you should fly, it's unreasonable to want anything else".

I don't think that's an acceptable response.

And yeah, proxying is a thing but it's hard to proxy dials and baseplates.

I went to a regional where there was no way I could choose any ship or pilot from my collection to play and still have a chance. Even with ships that were towards the top of the meta, I faced fenn ghost twice and, although I had fun, had no real chance of winning.

2e should give me a lot more opportunities to bring ships and pilots I want to a tournament with the expectation I at least have a chance to win.

I will continue to play 1e Epic. The mechanics work well there and I have a lot of fun with my friends and brothers playing. If FFG never dropped a new ship again, I’d continue playing cause I like the game. They have no obligation to support my habit. I’m glad they are releasing a 2e and use most of my fleet to do so.

I haven’t bought a lot of the latest waves. With the new release I’m way upping my purchase again. I’m guessing there are a lot like me to possibly balance out the people with large collections who claim to never buy again.

35 minutes ago, FlashBackJack said:

I just wish FFG had given more thought about what their loyal players would need.

1 Kit each + core is enough for anyone that has bought every single X-wing 1.0 product.

Call me mad, but I’d say that someone who has bought every SKU, is a loyal customer.

Or you mean that you are more loyal than him? Because in that case, I’m afraid you mistake loyalty with compulsive shopping.

7 hours ago, FlashBackJack said:

... and I’m in Australia ...

I was going to say:

FIRST. WORLD. PROBLEM.

Then I read the above. Never mind. ?

I work on a budget for my gaming. I limit myself to $40 a month. I will have to get the new Core and at least one conversion kit and that should run me over $100 (when converted to CDN$) but I am ok with waiting until Christmas for more kits. All I need to get the ball rolling is the core and 1 kit for each faction. Not all of my collection will be wave 1 so the stuff in wave 2 or later can wait as well as I can be piecemeal with my next purchase of kits. Once I start getting into my second kits I'll have extra ships that I can trade off for (because I'll have extra ones from the kit) and any that I don't have or want to upgrade (I know I don't have 100 points of every ship) I will 2.0 up the missing amount with the 2.0 packs when they come out.

It may take a year to convert all of my ships but I'm not required or need to have every one available as soon as September starts. All of my stuff won't be wave released by this time next year, I don't see FFG's release schedule being that aggressive, so I'll concentrate on one of each for now and will up my second kits as I need them. I'm ok with making a purchase every 2nd month as opposed to each month. If I wait every second month then I may be able to get a kit and an expack that I need. I know I want to convert all of my collection but I don't need to convert it all just yet.

Just take your time as before and everything will be fine.

2 minutes ago, Sergovan said:

I work on a budget for my gaming. I limit myself to $40 a month. I will have to get the new Core and at least one conversion kit and that should run me over $100 (when converted to CDN$) but I am ok with waiting until Christmas for more kits. All I need to get the ball rolling is the core and 1 kit for each faction. Not all of my collection will be wave 1 so the stuff in wave 2 or later can wait as well as I can be piecemeal with my next purchase of kits. Once I start getting into my second kits I'll have extra ships that I can trade off for (because I'll have extra ones from the kit) and any that I don't have or want to upgrade (I know I don't have 100 points of every ship) I will 2.0 up the missing amount with the 2.0 packs when they come out.

It may take a year to convert all of my ships but I'm not required or need to have every one available as soon as September starts. All of my stuff won't be wave released by this time next year, I don't see FFG's release schedule being that aggressive, so I'll concentrate on one of each for now and will up my second kits as I need them. I'm ok with making a purchase every 2nd month as opposed to each month. If I wait every second month then I may be able to get a kit and an expack that I need. I know I want to convert all of my collection but I don't need to convert it all just yet.

Just take your time as before and everything will be fine.

I salute you. Moderation is underrated.

Let's add up the Synergies:

Assuming that you buy new core + 3 conversion kits + Saw's Renegades you get combined

8 Z-95

4 X-Wing

4 Y-wing

6+2 TIEs (with the 2 Sabines TIEs. Bonus: If you didn't own a Sabine's TIE before, paint some yellow/orange on one of your TIEs and get it now for free)

Yes, it doesn't give you 4 B-Wings or 4-5 A-Wings or 5 Khiraz now, but there should be options in trading/proxy/ buying singles online later on.

In total I don't find it too bad.