Now that we've got a good indication of the base mechanics of the game, and that ships cost approximately the same as they do here, we can begin coming up with ship ideas. The first thing that comes to mind for me is the TIE Defender, so here it is:

3 primary attack.
3 Agility
3 Hull
4 Shields

Calculate -> Focus
Calculate -> Target Lock
Calculate -> Boost
Calculate -> Barrel Roll

Defender dial as-is, but with 3-banks blue instead of white.

Generic ability on all pilot cards:
TIE/D Defender
After you perform an attack, you may perform an attack with an equipped [cannon] secondary weapon on a target in your bullseye firing arc.

Upgrade bar contains:
Cannon
System
Configuration
Title
Modification

Related upgrade cards:
Ion Cannons (can deal more than one ion token).
FCS (rerolls dice without spending the lock)
Advanced Sensors (makes those red actions nicer)

Defender of the Empire (Title, 5 points, TIE Defender Only )
This card is only in effect if you are the only friendly ship in play. When you are hit by an attack, receive one stress token for each uncancelled [crit] result.
Focus -> Evade
Boost -> Barrel Roll
Barrel Roll -> Boost

Reactive Energy Alocator (Configuration, 5 points, TIE Defender Only)
Once per round when attacking with a primary weapon, you may either spend one shield to roll one additional attack die or cancel 2 attack dice to regain 1 shield .

Pilots:

Widdle Generic:
Costs 80 points (40 in 1.0). PS 2.

Biggy Generic:
Cost 85 points, PS3.

Countess Ryad:
Cost 90 points. PS 3. When you reveal a [straight] manoeuvre, you may treat it as a red [koiogran] manoeuvre of the same speed.

Colonel Vessery:
Cost 92 points. PS 4. Elite Slot. When attacking, immediately after rolling attack dice, you may acquire a target lock on the attacker if they are in your bullseye firing arc.

Maarek Stele:
Cost 97 points. PS 5. Force value 1. Elite Slot. Standard Maarek Ability, but 'primary weapon only'.

Wedge Antilles:
Cost 98 points. PS 6. Elite Slot. When attacking, the defender rolls one fewer defence die.
Wedge loses the [title] slot for this ship, and is a Rebel pilot.

Design Thoughts:

The TIE Defender was reputed to be extraordinarily expensive, but with phenomenal performance and incredible pilots. All the pilots are pretty standard, save for Wedge. In the old canon, Rogue squadron was rescued from certain death by a squadron of Defenders, which they then train in and proceed to truly whoop butt with later on.

So are you excited for the possibilities of second edition?

Calculate is droid only.

6 minutes ago, HolySorcerer said:

Calculate is droid only.

Yeah, I was looking at that. It's not a set rule yet, so I think the wiggle room is there. I'm viewing it as the shipboard AI performing that action, then the second one as the pilot themselves coordinating things, hence white focus/TL and red boost/BR.

3 minutes ago, Astech said:

Yeah, I was looking at that. It's not a set rule yet, so I think the wiggle room is there. I'm viewing it as the shipboard AI performing that action, then the second one as the pilot themselves coordinating things, hence white focus/TL and red boost/BR.

I’m pretty certain that’s not the direction they are looking at it from. I think the idea is calculate, like the force, is a way to distinguish a thematic difference in the characters by aligning it with a game mechanic.

I want my defenders to have the x7 title benefit, but be able to take cannons

kinda like x1s have ATC but can still take system slot upgrades (FCS)

14 minutes ago, Astech said:

Yeah, I was looking at that. It's not a set rule yet, so I think the wiggle room is there. I'm viewing it as the shipboard AI performing that action, then the second one as the pilot themselves coordinating things, hence white focus/TL and red boost/BR.

Not to mention that since they can only calculate it means that they would be unable to perform a focus action while ioned. In interviews and describing the token they've pretty clearly pointed it out as a droid thing, but if you were to use it then it would need to be the linked action instead.

53 minutes ago, Astech said:

Defender of the Empire (Title, 5 points, TIE Defender Only )
This card is only in effect if you are the only friendly ship in play. When you are hit by an attack, receive one stress token for each uncancelled [crit] result.
Focus -> Evade
Boost -> Barrel Roll
Barrel Roll -> Boost

Reactive Energy Alocator (Configuration, 5 points, TIE Defender Only)
Once per round when attacking with a primary weapon, you may either spend one shield to roll one additional attack die or cancel 2 attack dice to regain 1 shield .

(....)

Wedge Antilles:
Cost 98 points. PS 6. Elite Slot. When attacking, the defender rolls one fewer defence die.
Wedge loses the [title] slot for this ship, and is a Rebel pilot.

FFG explicitly said, they want to move away from generic titles. Configurations only exist because you need flip-cards for s-foils. Also: They are trying to eliminate the need for cross-buying and reinforce faction identities, so no rebel pilots in empire packs.

What is more likely is the the Defender will come with either the /X7 or /D backed in

As for the gunboat, it'd be real nice to roll os-1 and xg-1 into the same title

Gotta find room to fit on Advanced SLAM, though

20 minutes ago, Duskwalker said:

FFG explicitly said, they want to move away from generic titles. Configurations only exist because you need flip-cards for s-foils. Also: They are trying to eliminate the need for cross-buying and reinforce faction identities, so no rebel pilots in empire packs.

What is more likely is the the Defender will come with either the /X7 or /D backed in

I expect /D, or a variant of it, to be honest. they seem to be moving away for token-stacking, so /X7 is out. However, I do expect if to be bullseye arc only, and probably have some restriction on modifying. A defender configuration would be interesting, but I don't really see where the theme fits in (because as you mention, they want it only for things you need to flip). Ideally, it serves the same role as it did in legends - A generalist among specialists, but priced to match.

I'm hoping that in addition to bullseye doubletap, they make it feel more satisfying by doing away with the white 4K and completely changing their dial. Make maneuvering them and catching someone in your bullseye feel extra satisfying.

I think a whole pile of these assumptions are completely out of the 2.0 design philosophy (others in this thread have pointed it out)

-They don't want titles, they want ship abilities built into the ships that you can't choose to have or not have.

-Calculate is droid only it replaces the focus. Its a very cool distinction and they seem quite proud of it so don't expect "tweaks" to it.

-They don't want cross faction expansions and are killing all the current ones that existed in 1.0

-they are toning down shield values and increasing hull values to make critical hits more important.

Basically, I don't think you quite understand what they are trying to do with 2.0 and have just tossed up some random ideas.

59 minutes ago, Icelom said:

I think a whole pile of these assumptions are completely out of the 2.0 design philosophy (others in this thread have pointed it out)

-They don't want titles, they want ship abilities built into the ships that you can't choose to have or not have.

-Calculate is droid only it replaces the focus. Its a very cool distinction and they seem quite proud of it so don't expect "tweaks" to it.

-They don't want cross faction expansions and are killing all the current ones that existed in 1.0

-they are toning down shield values and increasing hull values to make critical hits more important.

Basically, I don't think you quite understand what they are trying to do with 2.0 and have just tossed up some random ideas.

This post sums up all the criticisms nicely.

Ship abilities built into the ships are all very well and good, but only if you merely want one of them. The TIE Defender is the premier Imperial ship, so it stands to reason that it should have a few more tricks up its sleeve than normal. I was mainly considering text space on the pilot card when making the configuration upgrade. Maybe it could be squeezed onto the pilot card, in which case that'd be preferable.

Calculate is intended to be droid-centric, but a droid is nothing but an AI, and a ship like the Defender could very well have one. It certainly gives the ship an interesting mechanical feel, I think.

I can understand the new philosophy on avoiding cross-faction expansions.

I was aware of toning down shield value, but it makes no sense for the Defender to have less shielding. That was the whole purpose of the fighter - heavy everything. So in general it's great, but there are always exceptions to the rules.

Criticism is awesome, but in a healthy relationship it's accompanied by useful suggestions for improvement to make it something other than cruel.

2 hours ago, Do I need a Username said:

I expect /D, or a variant of it, to be honest. they seem to be moving away for token-stacking, so /X7 is out. However, I do expect if to be bullseye arc only, and probably have some restriction on modifying. A defender configuration would be interesting, but I don't really see where the theme fits in (because as you mention, they want it only for things you need to flip). Ideally, it serves the same role as it did in legends - A generalist among specialists, but priced to match.

In the TIE fighter games in which the Defender made its grand appearance, players could allocate energy between engines, shields and weaponry (and maybe sensors?). If there was an easy way to make a 3-way flappy card I'd have gone for that, but reconsidered and went for a simpler card that accomplishes essentially the same thing. Maybe I should give it a charge limit though, so we don't get Miranda-level abuse of fat ships.

Here is what I suspect using the X-wing and Tie/ad as a base:

3 primary attack.
3 Agility
3/4 Hull
3/2 Shields

Actions:

Focus > Boost/barrel roll(it will be one but definitely not both, Leaning towards boost myself)

Target Lock

Boost/barrel roll (same as the linked action)

Ship Ability:

Tied/D ability(no X/7 based on what has been said on the new design philosophy it is out)

Give the dial some sloops but keep the white K-turn

Make it reasonably priced and I could see this being used.

Yeah 4 Hull is much more likely than 4 Shields. Shields are in general going down on ships as they want crits to matter more.

7 hours ago, Astech said:

Now that we've got a good indication of the base mechanics of the game, and that ships cost approximately the same as they do here, we can begin coming up with ship ideas. The first thing that comes to mind for me is the TIE Defender, so here it is:

3 primary attack.
3 Agility
3 Hull
4 Shields

Calculate -> Focus
Calculate -> Target Lock
Calculate -> Boost
Calculate -> Barrel Roll

Defender dial as-is, but with 3-banks blue instead of white.

Generic ability on all pilot cards:
TIE/D Defender
After you perform an attack, you may perform an attack with an equipped [cannon] secondary weapon on a target in your bullseye firing arc.

Upgrade bar contains:
Cannon
System
Configuration
Title
Modification

Related upgrade cards:
Ion Cannons (can deal more than one ion token).
FCS (rerolls dice without spending the lock)
Advanced Sensors (makes those red actions nicer)

Defender of the Empire (Title, 5 points, TIE Defender Only )
This card is only in effect if you are the only friendly ship in play. When you are hit by an attack, receive one stress token for each uncancelled [crit] result.
Focus -> Evade
Boost -> Barrel Roll
Barrel Roll -> Boost

Reactive Energy Alocator (Configuration, 5 points, TIE Defender Only)
Once per round when attacking with a primary weapon, you may either spend one shield to roll one additional attack die or cancel 2 attack dice to regain 1 shield .

Pilots:

Widdle Generic:
Costs 80 points (40 in 1.0). PS 2.

Biggy Generic:
Cost 85 points, PS3.

Countess Ryad:
Cost 90 points. PS 3. When you reveal a [straight] manoeuvre, you may treat it as a red [koiogran] manoeuvre of the same speed.

Colonel Vessery:
Cost 92 points. PS 4. Elite Slot. When attacking, immediately after rolling attack dice, you may acquire a target lock on the attacker if they are in your bullseye firing arc.

Maarek Stele:
Cost 97 points. PS 5. Force value 1. Elite Slot. Standard Maarek Ability, but 'primary weapon only'.

Wedge Antilles:
Cost 98 points. PS 6. Elite Slot. When attacking, the defender rolls one fewer defence die.
Wedge loses the [title] slot for this ship, and is a Rebel pilot.

Design Thoughts:

The TIE Defender was reputed to be extraordinarily expensive, but with phenomenal performance and incredible pilots. All the pilots are pretty standard, save for Wedge. In the old canon, Rogue squadron was rescued from certain death by a squadron of Defenders, which they then train in and proceed to truly whoop butt with later on.

So are you excited for the possibilities of second edition?

Why!??

Why should we come up with ship ideas?

Why are your ship ideas (or any of us ship ideas) better than FFG ship ideas?

You like the game? You're euphoric a new version is coming up? take a deep breath, wait for it's release, read the rules and just play the game as it is.

...

I had an idea for Keyan Farlander:

Force Rating of 1, Initiative 4

" When you reveal a maneuver, you may spend 1 [force] to rotate your dial to another maneuver with the same speed."

Then give him a Talent slot instead of a Force Talent slot so he can't stack Sense onto that. Keyan was always more of a traditional fighter ace than a Force using ace anyhow. But he WAS force sensitive and then later trained as a Jedi, so we can probably get away with the Force Rating.

Essentially the idea here is that since Keyan's ability has been dumped onto Tem Numb, but the guy always did love Stay on Target, and giving him that as his innate pilot ability would be neat. Plus it turns the lubering assault fighter that is the B-Wing into a murderous knife fighter.

I also feel that B-Wings should get their own S-Foils card, although how it could work I don't know. Maybe have the Open S-Foils give them back their 2K?

Instead of giving it more shields how about giving it Reinforce? They are remaking reinforce into a large ship thing but it could be used to simulate the powerfull shields and hull as well as the ability to redirect power from the computer game with that.

2 minutes ago, mcgreag said:

Instead of giving it more shields how about giving it Reinforce? They are remaking reinforce into a large ship thing but it could be used to simulate the powerfull shields and hull as well as the ability to redirect power from the computer game with that.

I think I heard somebody on a forum elsewhere throw around the idea of giving it regenerating shields, similar to how Force has that little chevron to denote it recharges. It would be pretty crazy, but then again, the TIE-D is a pretty crazy ship.

That's certainty possible. Limited by charges(like the new R2 astromechs) to 1 or 2 would not seem to be too broken. As long as it was costed appropriately.

1 hour ago, pflrocha said:

Why!??

Why should we come up with ship ideas?

Why are your ship ideas (or any of us ship ideas) better than FFG ship ideas?

You like the game? You're euphoric a new version is coming up? take a deep breath, wait for it's release, read the rules and just play the game as it is.

...

Whats wrong with speculating?

No body is saying that this should be the new ship. **** it may turn out to be completely different. We are just having a bit of fun and exercising our imagination with what we know of 2.0 ships so far and extrapolating out to other hulls.

Calm down.

7 hours ago, HammerGibbens said:

I'm hoping that in addition to bullseye doubletap, they make it feel more satisfying by doing away with the white 4K and completely changing their dial. Make maneuvering them and catching someone in your bullseye feel extra satisfying.

I disagree. Sure, the white 4K is super good, but it is also the trademark of a defender, its entire gimmick. More importantly , dodging the bulls-eye arc from it shouldn't be that hard, because it doesn't move (except the ends, which extend behind the defender by one range band). It allows the ship to maneuver behind people, but if you want the bullseye, you will have to do something else.

This whole tie Defender discussion has made me wonder- what’s keeping them from having some of the pilots have one of the titles and others having the other? Have a generic x7 and a generic Tie/D, and make, say, Ryad an x7 and and Vessery Tie/D.

4 minutes ago, Kdubb said:

This whole tie Defender discussion has made me wonder- what’s keeping them from having some of the pilots have one of the titles and others having the other? Have a generic x7 and a generic Tie/D, and make, say, Ryad an x7 and and Vessery Tie/D.

I like that, but I wonder if the configuration slot will be used instead.

The TIE/D should have reinforce or regen abilities. The shields on those things were nuts.

I think a System slot would do nice on the Defender.


I think maybe the Defender will be able to equip cannons, and fire them both in the Bullseye arc. Then there will be some configuration card for the X7 stuff, adding maybe a linked boost-evade action to it.