Cannot Get Your Ship Out! It's Gonna be MAY Articles

By geek19, in Star Wars: Armada

Posted at

I'll get to mine within the next few days, just got home earlier today and I'm wiped. It was a fun event, though, and I'll be doing what I can to get back next year.

Posted at
18 hours ago, Snipafist said:

I'll get to mine within the next few days, just got home earlier today and I'm wiped. It was a fun event, though, and I'll be doing what I can to get back next year.

Be kind :)

Posted at
1 hour ago, Mogrok said:

Be kind :)      

I will! All the people I played were polite and gave me tough games, even if the margins didn't always seem that way. Did we play? What round?

Posted at
56 minutes ago, Snipafist said:

I will! All the people I played were polite and gave me tough games, even if the margins didn't always seem that way. Did we play? What round?

1st. I made the mistake of trying to kill the mc30 instead of letting Steele do the work. Prob would only have been a 6 or 7 for you instead of the 9. Stupid move on my part.

Posted at

http://cannotgetyourshipout.blogspot.com/2018/05/erics-worlds-2018-report.html

IT FINALLY HAPPENED.

No, seriously, I've been really busy with gardening* and childcare and Mother's Day travel and whatnot, sorry it took so long.

*My vegetable garden this year is going to be amazing. So many tomatoes and peppers and cucumbers and green beans and other things, I can't wait! I just had a short window to get everything in and have been busting my hump to make it happen.

Posted at

How’s the garden meta these days? Do peppers need a nerf?

Posted at
5 minutes ago, WAC47 said:

How’s the garden meta these days? Do peppers need a nerf?  

Peppers needed a buff from last year so I planted them in a spot where they get more sun. Green beans are extremely effective for their points cost, so I added 50% more of them to my garden. Tomatoes are a mainstay so they're the same. 50% fewer zucchinis this year because I found they get diminishing returns, but I felt the investment in the trellis support upgrade for cucumbers was worth it, so I doubled down on it for more cucumbers this year. The learning curve to make them into pickles is a little intimidating at first, but I got the hang of it.

Lettuce and carrots are not very cost-effective and were dropped altogether.

Posted at
21 minutes ago, Snipafist said:

Peppers needed a buff from last year so I planted them in a spot where they get more sun. Green beans are extremely effective for their points cost, so I added 50% more of them to my garden. Tomatoes are a mainstay so they're the same. 50% fewer zucchinis this year because I found they get diminishing returns, but I felt the investment in the trellis support upgrade for cucumbers was worth it, so I doubled down on it for more cucumbers this year. The learning curve to make them into pickles is a little intimidating at first, but I got the hang of it.

Lettuce and carrots are not very cost-effective and were dropped altogether.

Haha thanks! Sounds like my fiancee and I need to try out green beans in our next build. ?

Posted at
1 minute ago, WAC47 said:

Haha thanks! Sounds like my fiancee and I need to try out green beans in our next build. ?     

They produce like crazy and keep producing throughout the year for not a lot of space relative to their output (just make sure they get a lot of sun and you keep them fertilized). I was carting off baskets of them for soups and sides all through the summer and fall last year and we wanted even more for this year. It's not too late to get some planted if you were interested! ;)

Star Wars: Gardening continues!

Posted at
1 hour ago, Snipafist said:

They produce like crazy and keep producing throughout the year for not a lot of space relative to their output (just make sure they get a lot of sun and you keep them fertilized). I was carting off baskets of them for soups and sides all through the summer and fall last year and we wanted even more for this year. It's not too late to get some planted if you were interested! ;)

Star Wars: Gardening continues!

It should be noted that green beans also are eligible for the pickling upgrade... if you are so inclined.

Posted at

Nice write up!

I love hammerheads. I've fielded up to 4 in a fleet before and have always enjoyed them. But when I step back and look at the numbers... I'm struggling to see the power of those scout corvettes. I'm always trying to justify hammerheads and would love to hear your thoughts on it.

What about them makes you prefer them over a cr90? Is it the extra hull point? The earlier maneuverability clicks? The 3-ish saved points? The rerolls from TFO? A CR90 with TRCs is 3 points more and arguably better in every way. Their damage is comparable, (3 reds with TRCs versus 4 reds with TFO), and more versatile, being able to use multiple arcs. They've got the same flak. The CR90 has more shields, so really the only time a hammerhead is more durable is when getting hit in the nose with an accuracy to block the redirect... (and even then, a 2nd evade helps in the case of multiple accuracies!) Slaved turrets will further hurt in the even of needing to flak. The CR90 also boasts a potential speed 4 and a way nicer maneuverability chart.

Torpedo hammerheads I can get behind more easily, but the Scout variant (especially with slaved turrets) never looks worth it when I compare the two ships closely. I want to justify hammerheads in my lists, but how is more CR90s not a better investment?

Thanks!

Posted at
6 minutes ago, duck_bird said:

Nice write up!

I love hammerheads. I've fielded up to 4 in a fleet before and have always enjoyed them. But when I step back and look at the numbers... I'm struggling to see the power of those scout corvettes. I'm always trying to justify hammerheads and would love to hear your thoughts on it.

What about them makes you prefer them over a cr90? Is it the extra hull point? The earlier maneuverability clicks? The 3-ish saved points? The rerolls from TFO? A CR90 with TRCs is 3 points more and arguably better in every way. Their damage is comparable, (3 reds with TRCs versus 4 reds with TFO), and more versatile, being able to use multiple arcs. They've got the same flak. The CR90 has more shields, so really the only time a hammerhead is more durable is when getting hit in the nose with an accuracy to block the redirect... (and even then, a 2nd evade helps in the case of multiple accuracies!) Slaved turrets will further hurt in the even of needing to flak. The CR90 also boasts a potential speed 4 and a way nicer maneuverability chart.

Torpedo hammerheads I can get behind more easily, but the Scout variant (especially with slaved turrets) never looks worth it when I compare the two ships closely. I want to justify hammerheads in my lists, but how is more CR90s not a better investment?

Thanks!

To understand scout hammers you have to go back to why CR90's got used a lot.

Its about rhythm, in any turn you rarely want more than one ship to be under serious threat and/or have a fixed activation timing. Something like an MC30 really wants to activate first to avoid taking fire, (or activate last in order to set up its shot). Whereas TRC90's dont really care when they activate as they can offer up a little bit of damage consistently whilst never really putting themselves in imminent danger.

So with scout hammers you also get an early game where they dont mind when they activate as they are stable at long range and have something to offer, whereas torp hammers are really suckered to try and get into close range to offer their value. In Snipes case the Scouts are chucking 3 red dice at range with a reroll, whilst his MC30s get to take their pick of activations rather than it being a choice of risk.

Posted at
38 minutes ago, duck_bird said:

Nice write up!

I love hammerheads. I've fielded up to 4 in a fleet before and have always enjoyed them. But when I step back and look at the numbers... I'm struggling to see the power of those scout corvettes. I'm always trying to justify hammerheads and would love to hear your thoughts on it.

What about them makes you prefer them over a cr90? Is it the extra hull point? The earlier maneuverability clicks? The 3-ish saved points? The rerolls from TFO? A CR90 with TRCs is 3 points more and arguably better in every way. Their damage is comparable, (3 reds with TRCs versus 4 reds with TFO), and more versatile, being able to use multiple arcs. They've got the same flak. The CR90 has more shields, so really the only time a hammerhead is more durable is when getting hit in the nose with an accuracy to block the redirect... (and even then, a 2nd evade helps in the case of multiple accuracies!) Slaved turrets will further hurt in the even of needing to flak. The CR90 also boasts a potential speed 4 and a way nicer maneuverability chart.

Torpedo hammerheads I can get behind more easily, but the Scout variant (especially with slaved turrets) never looks worth it when I compare the two ships closely. I want to justify hammerheads in my lists, but how is more CR90s not a better investment?

Thanks!

Well for 50 points a slaved turret Disposable capacitor Scout throws 5 dices with CF at long range. 51 with TFO. They can punch pretty hard and people tend to focus on the more dangerous stuff.

Posted at
Quote

Assault: Most Wanted
Defense: Hyperspace Assault
Navigation: Salvage Run

Out of curiosity, what's the rationale for MW over Opening Salvo? That's one of the objective decisions I've never felt I had a decent grasp on with MSU.

Also- is your plan for HA to tuck away Landmonition, or the cheaper MC30? Or does it depend?

Posted at
47 minutes ago, duck_bird said:

Nice write up!

I love hammerheads. I've fielded up to 4 in a fleet before and have always enjoyed them. But when I step back and look at the numbers... I'm struggling to see the power of those scout corvettes. I'm always trying to justify hammerheads and would love to hear your thoughts on it.

What about them makes you prefer them over a cr90? Is it the extra hull point? The earlier maneuverability clicks? The 3-ish saved points? The rerolls from TFO? A CR90 with TRCs is 3 points more and arguably better in every way. Their damage is comparable, (3 reds with TRCs versus 4 reds with TFO), and more versatile, being able to use multiple arcs. They've got the same flak. The CR90 has more shields, so really the only time a hammerhead is more durable is when getting hit in the nose with an accuracy to block the redirect... (and even then, a 2nd evade helps in the case of multiple accuracies!) Slaved turrets will further hurt in the even of needing to flak. The CR90 also boasts a potential speed 4 and a way nicer maneuverability chart.

Torpedo hammerheads I can get behind more easily, but the Scout  variant (especially with slaved turrets) never looks worth it when I compare the two ships closely. I want to justify hammerheads in my lists, but how is more CR90s not a better investment?

Thanks!

CR90s are more proactive/aggressive and Hammerheads are more reactive/defensive. CR90As want to be dancing around on the flanks and getting in double-arcs and that's how they do. Hammerheads generally are sticking more towards a gunline and while they definitely can pull some fancy maneuvers (they're GREAT at inside turns and I feel like I don't see people mention this ever), their place is roughly in the center.

That said, they had a couple other things recommending them over CR90As:

  • Early Warning System absolutely hoses CR90s. It's an inconvenience for sure for Hammerheads, but they really only want the one front arc attack anyways so they manage. I wanted something I felt would handle that match up a little bit better ( Jaina's doesn't care, but not all CR90s can be Jaina's ).
  • Hammerheads are just a little bit more survivable against super attacks (in my experience) than CR90s provided you keep front toward enemy and for a few less points, I was on board.
    • On a related note, I've had Hammerheads survive on one hull several times where a CR90 would've been toast. They're just that slight bit harder to drop, especially at medium range. They also don't care about XI7s due to their terrible non-front shields.
  • Slaved + TFO pretty consistently produces results on every dice in the pool whereas TRCs will sometimes only save one die amidst a bunch of garbage. Against ships with evade tokens and/or Admonition and/or Brunson, having a more consistent damage pool adds up.
  • The Hammerhead nav chart is better for getting in the way of ships/ramming them and the CR90 nav chart is better for getting around them, if that makes sense. For a gunline element with Rieekan, I wanted getting in the way. I already had 4 ships that wanted to get around.
    • It's been my experience with MSU that against most other fleets, they'll advance against your center (what you deploy earliest, usually) because the flanks are difficult to direct a combined fleet against. This is particularly true of MSU without squadrons to buy deployment time. Hammerheads seem a more natural fit for that kind of use than CR90s due to the nav chart, like I said.
  • I wanted 3 more ships total but I wanted them to contribute at range and not be fighting with the MC30s for wanting to activate last or first. I couldn't squeeze in 3 CR90As with TRCs and so it would've been 2 CR90Bs with a CR90A and the CR90Bs generally like going first when they can. I could fit in 2 Hammerhead Scouts and 1 Hammerhead Torp, though.

Hopefully that makes sense. Only very rarely did I feel like the Slaved Turrets had a negative impact on me (on a side note, Hammerhead Scouts are one of the few ships I'd even consider Slaved Turrets on, as they're otherwise pretty bad). In general with a more reactive use you won't be double arcing much anyways and you'll want to keep your front towards the enemy, so they normally would just get the one attack anyways. With all of them ganging up on things, the damage started sticking more than you'd think. In some games I flakked, but with zero squadrons and lots of aces about, flakking was generally a waste of my time unless the squads dove right into a death trap, which Worlds players did not do.

42 minutes ago, svelok said:

Out of curiosity, what's the rationale for MW over Opening Salvo? That's one of the objective decisions I've never felt I had a decent grasp on with MSU.

Also- is your plan for HA to tuck away Landmonition, or the cheaper MC30? Or does it depend?

I considered Opening Salvo as a counter to Sloane and Raddus fleets, but it had been my experience that the fleet type I was most concerned about (Vader double Cymoons) would just barely fail to kill most of my ships at long range and I didn't want to help them with extra dice. I did come very close to selecting Opening Salvo, though, and I might toy around with it when I play the fleet again in the future.

Hyperspace Assault tucks the used car MC30 into hyperspace for a rude surprise. People were frequently surprised at how upgrade-light it was but it smashed face all throughout the day. I didn't regret bringing it at all and I could throw it away with Rieekan if I had to without fretting over its points cost much.

Posted at

I have a theory that the FFG's PR Department read the blog and have decided to wait until the entirety of wave 7 has been covered by you guys before revealing wave 8.

Posted at
4 hours ago, Indy_com said:

I have a theory that the FFG's PR Department read the blog and have decided to wait until the entirety of wave 7 has been covered by you guys before revealing wave 8.

I know one of the things Jimmy Lee does (from his own mouth) is he reads the forums and other Armada-related internet content, which includes our blog (presumably as well as others, like Steel Command). I'm not quite so sure about the conclusion you've reached but I can very that FFG to some extent does read the blog ;) .

That said I really need to get the Thrawn, Mandalorian Gauntlet, and 7th fleet articles up. Under normal circumstances, that would've happened already but with Worlds and whatnot, articles slowed down. Plus I'm not really keen on Thrawn or the Gauntlets, so there's that...

Posted at
5 hours ago, Indy_com said:

I have a theory that the FFG's PR Department read the blog and have decided to wait until the entirety of wave 7 has been covered by you guys before revealing wave 8.

Man, I need to rewrite the MC30 article calling it weak and terrible then just so I can get more black dice ships, haha!

Posted at
1 hour ago, geek19 said:

https://cannotgetyourshipout.blogspot.com/2018/05/where-do-we-go-and-why-do-we-fight.html

Multiple thinkpieces! Shade thrown at other blogs! John continues to slack off on updating those articles he said he was going to!

Excellent article...up until point 4 :)

Seriously though, I agree with the fact that we are in a fantastic, evolving meta, and we really should try and fly everything. (even Konstantine Tagge and Leia )

Posted at

This was an excellent article. My favorite line from it was "One of my fears with me saying that a ship or squadron is 'bad' is that you're not going to test it out and see if you agree with me or not." This cannot be overstated and I really appreciate you saying it. There are certain ships, squadrons, and upgrades that are definitely sub-optimal, but testing them out and combining them in unique and unanticipated ways is part of how the meta evolves (in between waves and hits with the Nerf bat).

And on top of that is the fun factor. The article certainly is focused on the evolving meta and winning, especially at the top tier, but to me point 4 is also about the fun factor. If you enjoy playing with a ship that might not be optimal, keep trying to find a better use for it if it's fun (for me it's Peltas, even though I know Rikki got Top 4 this year with one). Makes me think of @Crabbok and his Arquitens Conga Line. I'm not sure how competitive it is, but he sure seems to have a lot of fun with it.

Posted at

Oh it's fun - and deadly. It's not unbeatable, but if you do beat it you probably aren't getting more than 6 points. (I hope!)

Posted at
14 minutes ago, Crabbok said:

Oh it's fun - and deadly. It's not unbeatable, but if you do beat it you probably aren't getting more than 6 points. (I hope!)

It looked pretty deadly in the tournament report that you posted this morning Really makes me want to give it a shot.