Oooo boy what a great three days its been for Armada, and what a terrible three days its been for my productivity at work, my sleep, and my body! But I present to you the final Overnight Report coming out of this years Worlds:
https://intelsweep.wordpress.com/2018/05/04/the-overnight-report-the-top-cut/
Congratulations to Nathan!
The match was difficult to watch as a spectator, but it was clear to see the brilliant strategies you employed throughout the match. You had cold dice but you never faltered and took the victory. Great game, well earned, congratulations.
Thanks Cap!
Great report thanks for putting it together so quickly.
I relate to Darth Vader on an emotional level from that scene with no imperials making the top cut...
Yeah, this...
QuoteEffectively the two days of Swiss are separate tournaments that meet in the very final stages. Limiting cut positions to Top 2 each day really warps the overall tournament and a better system (i.e. a combined tournament with an extended cut) should be considered.
A similar comment could be levelled about the nature of cut games. The excitement from Swiss comes from the risk and reward at play. Players are willing to risk more when it is in their interest to do so. A 1pt win might get you over the line during the cut, but in swiss it might as well be a loss. A shift away from the current format of cut play could similarly improve what are some of the most visible games of Armada played each year.
...this is a problem.
I really hope FFG doesn't look at the results of the top 3 of the 4 lists being Rieekan+squadrons and decide Rieekan/squadrons needs another nerf. That's totally taking the wrong message from this, because you would have seen more varied lists if the final format wasn't single-elimination. Specifically, more aggressive-focused commanders would be more valuable.
(OTOH, only 2 Imperial lists in the overall top 8 is...not great.)
Top ? four ? each ? day ?
Top ? eight ? swiss ?
If you really want to get past the defensive style flying flip how the points work. Tie tournament points to points killed plus objectives, use the spread as a tie breaker. Issue solved. That will change the nature of the game, for the better though remains to be seen.
10 hours ago, Kushielrdf said:Great report thanks for putting it together so quickly.
Thanks! Its been a real pleasure honestly 
6 hours ago, xanderf said:Yeah, this...
...this is a problem.
I really hope FFG doesn't look at the results of the top 3 of the 4 lists being Rieekan+squadrons and decide Rieekan/squadrons needs another nerf. That's totally taking the wrong message from this, because you would have seen more varied lists if the final format wasn't single-elimination. Specifically, more aggressive-focused commanders would be more valuable.
(OTOH, only 2 Imperial lists in the overall top 8 is...not great.)
If you look at the Top 10 though, Imps were 4 / 10 (and all of those 4 were within 1-2 points of making the Top Cut. In a way its almost a shame that the final rounds didn't shape up a little differently because I feel the way it shook out gives an impression of the game that isn't entirely fair to its current state.
Great job on these reports. I was using these reports to follow what was going on and I was there!
24 minutes ago, Kristjan said:Great job on these reports. I was using these reports to follow what was going on and I was there!
Hey thanks! I had the real advantage of being able to review everything while Worlds was asleep.
Have to say, while I maintain my concerns about it vs generics, I was watching the Top Cut going "**** if Kristjan had snuck in to that second seed spot, he would have had the hard counter to these Rieekan fleets".
14 minutes ago, Captain Weather said:Have to say, while I maintain my concerns about it vs generics, I was watching the Top Cut going "**** if Kristjan had snuck in to that second seed spot, he would have had the hard counter to these Rieekan fleets".
There are no guarantees the flechettes are going to go off, but when they do it's pretty epic. My second game I had a Boba and mauler locked down for the entire game. I even ran over Boba with my Victory, but my gladiator Demo with Moff JJ was able to hook around and lock him down. I play a lot of games against Yik and without that flechette Demo I would get rolled hard.
You, Sir, are a fantastic writer. Enjoyed it greatly.
Thx all reporters as well, without checking and maybe unfairly I say that no community shows this dedication.
At Euros, we try to return the favor!
These reports have been great. Thanks for all you do for the community.
9 hours ago, NebulonB said:You, Sir, are a fantastic writer. Enjoyed it greatly.
Thx all reporters as well, without checking and maybe unfairly I say that no community shows this dedication.
At Euros, we try to return the favor!
Thanks for all the love, definitely makes it worth it.
If you're at Euros this year, while I'm sure @Tokra will be pretty reliable for data, the more people I have on the ground thinking to gather general data and top 10 lists the better. If I can get my hands on the data I'll do some Overnight Reports for Euros as well!
Thanks for all the great work keeping us up to date. God knows we need people like you guys to pick up all the balls FFG is dropping. Grats to the winners.
I'll be there too and should be able to commentate the cut, although as this is my year maybe not....
On 5/5/2018 at 7:22 PM, xanderf said:Yeah, this...
...this is a problem.
I really hope FFG doesn't look at the results of the top 3 of the 4 lists being Rieekan+squadrons and decide Rieekan/squadrons needs another nerf. That's totally taking the wrong message from this, because you would have seen more varied lists if the final format wasn't single-elimination. Specifically, more aggressive-focused commanders would be more valuable.
(OTOH, only 2 Imperial lists in the overall top 8 is...not great.)
While I mostly agree I am not sure about the bolded statement. Rieekan made his way through 5 swiss rounds. With another 3 swiss rounds after the cut you would made the last matches more interesting but Rieekan would be still there with no reason to be someone else.
It is hard to argue that a more agressive-focused commander would be more valuable when Rieekan already won them during the swiss.
3 hours ago, ovinomanc3r said:While I mostly agree I am not sure about the bolded statement. Rieekan made his way through 5 swiss rounds. With another 3 swiss rounds after the cut you would made the last matches more interesting but Rieekan would be still there with no reason to be someone else.
It is hard to argue that a more agressive-focused commander would be more valuable when Rieekan already won them during the swiss.
I think he means of there was a top 4 or 8 each day then a second swiss for finals from those 8 or 16. THAT would vary the results I think.
5 minutes ago, moodswing5537 said:I think he means of there was a top 4 or 8 each day then a second swiss for finals from those 8 or 16. THAT would vary the results I think.
And Ovi's point is that Nathan won Day1B and Yik won Day1A, so is Rieekan Aces not the king of Swiss anyway?
Top two of each day gave us:
Just taking the top 4 of each day, instead of top 2, would've added:
Still not the most diverse thing in the world (3x Raddus, 3x Rieekan, 2x double ISD), but still a bit more diverse. And those additional four fleets were, at most, 3 tournament points away from making the cut as-was, so it's not like a Rieekan mirror match as the final game would be pre-ordained by any means.
1 hour ago, Ginkapo said:And Ovi's point is that Nathan won Day1B and Yik won Day1A, so is Rieekan Aces not the king of Swiss anyway?
Maybe, in a field of 1 swiss tourney. If they are forced to go through a second swiss against players from the opposite days, wouldn't that be a better determination of actual dominance, and less to chance?
I mean, we can't use Ceteris paribus, since the skill levels vary, so we would have to assume that it's chance of matchups. Therefore, more matchups means a better determination of skill over more lists, right?
Edited by moodswing553715 minutes ago, moodswing5537 said:Maybe, in a field of 1 swiss tourney. If they are forced to go through a second swiss against players from the opposite days, wouldn't that be a better determination of actual dominance, and less to chance?
I mean, we can't use Ceteris paribus, since the skill levels vary, so we would have to assume that it's chance of matchups. Therefore, more matchups means a better determination of skill over more lists, right?
Are you arguing that it would vary results, or that it would be a stronger test? Because right now it feels like you are arguing all sides of the coin.
12 minutes ago, moodswing5537 said:Maybe, in a field of 1 swiss tourney. If they are forced to go through a second swiss against players from the opposite days, wouldn't that be a better determination of actual dominance, and less to chance?
I mean, we can't use Ceteris paribus, since the skill levels vary, so we would have to assume that it's chance of matchups. Therefore, more matchups means a better determination of skill over more lists, right?
Of course but that has nothing to do with Rieekan.
As I said, I agree about another swiss round would be better than an elimination but I questioned that this way Rieekan would have more problems. The lest skillful players would have but Rieekan (played by high level players) proved being awesome through two 5-rounds swiss.
Even if the level between both days was too different he won both anyways!
6 hours ago, ovinomanc3r said:While I mostly agree I am not sure about the bolded statement. Rieekan made his way through 5 swiss rounds. With another 3 swiss rounds after the cut you would made the last matches more interesting but Rieekan would be still there with no reason to be someone else.
It is hard to argue that a more agressive-focused commander would be more valuable when Rieekan already won them during the swiss.
My suggestion is that Rieekan is not the optimal choice if you know you are always going to be playing Swiss.
But the top-level players going into the tournament knew that the final format would be single-elimination, so while Rieekan may not have otherwise been the optimal choice through the Swiss rounds, taking him through Swiss into the single-eliminations gives them the best chance of success overall. And the top players were good enough at the game generally that when playing against randomly-matched opponents, a choice of 'less than optimal for the format' commander is not a big penalty to them.
IE., in the opening days, it was the players, not as much the commander, which determined top placement. In the final rounds, as it had cut to top players from both previous days, we could assume the skill of the players is now closer to being equal, which means the choice of commander will make a bigger difference here.