6 hours ago, Infinite_Maelstrom said:

I know the kits aren't "cheap" unless you really stretch it (look, it's only $50! I could buy 98000 of them for the same price as it would cost to launch my satellite into orbit!), but they could also be a lot more expensive. I don't think I will buy enough for my whole collection, and I may sell parts I don't need to compensate for cost.

No-one is going to mention the fact that this guy HAS HIS OWN SATELLITE?!? And that he is selling parts of his collection to fund the launch?

now that is one **** of a hobby.

52 minutes ago, Sekac said:

I can't wait until everyone who thinks FFG is robbing us finally quits the game and stops posting about it.

The sooner, the better, please.

Some of us are rational and just want to be happy about it.

More likely: they see how much fun everyone is having and then they'll buy in, too. I am guessing this is the route to be taken by the majority of The Dissatisfied.

18 minutes ago, FalseError said:

No-one is going to mention the fact that this guy HAS HIS OWN SATELLITE?!? And that he is selling parts of his collection to fund the launch?

now that is one **** of a hobby.

Shhh, not without the tin foil thought wave blocker on. You have just put this mans family in jeopardy.

I seem to be posting variations of the same thing again and again.

I am one of the few who has no intention of buying into second edition. At my VERY casual level whereat I provide all of the ships, rules, etc., and there’s all of 4-5 total players, and no meta, first edition is fine.

That said, for those who have had to deal with the meta in FLGS, cons, and tournaments, second edition offers some clear solutions to their many valid complaints. Second edition has a lot of potential and looks pretty cool.

If you play with a community, and so can focus on a single faction and a core set, the buy in to use most of your collection out of the gate is more than reasonable. If there’s not enough in there to run your eight TIE swarm, try some other builds and play out of the gate with new ideas. See what a varied squad can do.

Some people seem to be simply looking for reasons to complain. Try, instead, looking for the potential fun and new experiences offered by a new format and design. Have FUN with the game.

27 minutes ago, Incard said:

More likely: they see how much fun everyone is having and then they'll buy in, too. I am guessing this is the route to be taken by the majority of The Dissatisfied.

Yeah probably. Once they realize that many of them will happily pay $60 for the latest video game and play it for 20 hours.

And yet are outraged that they must pay $50 for hundreds of hours of entertainment.

Many of them will probably realize how ridiculous that is. If so, I hope they have that epiphany soon.

Please post instances where other game companies gave away large quantities of things for free.

9 hours ago, Dice lord said:

These kits really should be released as a free PDF for printing out; it's basically a box of cards and tokens for stuff you've already bought - printed onto sticker paper they could even be stuck over 1st ed existing tokens.

A poor move.

If sticky back paper is used, you've lost the use of V1 cardboard. Not a great idea.

Buy or buy not. There is no whining.

41 minutes ago, faceyfood said:

Please post instances where other game companies gave away large quantities of things for free.

I traded in my old Flames of war rulebook at a flgs for the new edition. For free.

We paid $40ish USD for Aces packs that fixed a few ships. Granted, those came with a couple repainted models, dials, cards, etc. that added some card clutter to the game and made modest improvements to those included ships... for a time. They would later get overshadowed again and that would be that.

The upgrade kits may not come with models, but they are coming with 35+ dials (depending on the faction), brand new pilot cards (new and old pilots), dials with maneuver fixes baked in, a new point system that allows for finer balance and the ability to make adjustments MUCH easier if and when a broken list crops up with their free list building app.

But you're right, sure, all that should be free. NO! Better! they should pay US!

21 minutes ago, Dice lord said:

I traded in my old Flames of war rulebook at a flgs for the new edition. For free.

You know the X-wing rulebook is online for free right? You don't even have to turn anything in. Sounds like those Flames of War folks really took advantage of you.

Do you have any good examples you'd like to share?

People who are simply saying that $50 alone is enough to convert to the new edition haven’t really thought much about it.

There’s the cost for other kits if you play more factions plus the need for multiple kits if you play swarms. There’s also the need for a core set plus the need for the new medium base.

$40 core set

$300 for conversion kits for playing multiple factions and using more ships than the number of dials listed in the FAQ

$90 for a set of three medium bases (maybe just two but that depends on the medium ships)

$60-100 for the two new trilogy kits with a price fluctuation on the cheap of $30 to the $50 of the current ones

This is alot more money than that simple $50 people parade around.

Warhammer fantasy Warscrolls - free download.

This really is quite a decisive topic.

39 minutes ago, Kubernes said:

People who are simply saying that $50 alone is enough to convert to the new edition haven’t really thought much about it.

There’s the cost for other kits if you play more factions plus the need for multiple kits if you play swarms. There’s also the need for a core set plus the need for the new medium base.

$40 core set

$300 for conversion kits for playing multiple factions and using more ships than the number of dials listed in the FAQ

$90 for a set of three medium bases (maybe just two but that depends on the medium ships)

$60-100 for the two new trilogy kits with a price fluctuation on the cheap of $30 to the $50 of the current ones

This is alot more money than that simple $50 people parade around.

1) How and why do you pay 90$ for medium basis when they already come with the kits?

2) how may Headhunter swarm do you actually fly?

I have a question, OP: how many of you are there and do you each really need your own thread? ?

1 minute ago, ObiWonka said:

I have a question, OP: how many of you are there and do you each really need your own thread? ?

Only one, but many appear to have similar views apparently - I feel I suggested something different in that conversion of existing printed material could've been achieved in a downloaded PDF; especially for those not interested in having tournament "approved" material.

I've said my bit - some agree, some disagree. That's ok. This approach hasn't won me over this time but I still love me some FFG.

11 hours ago, bottleface said:

Also, this will never happen because understandably FFG likes money, but with the app being required now there should no longer be any need for official cards since everything can be in the app.

Still nice to have cards on the table for opponents to easily see what you have, track shields and damage, etc. and even if they did get rid of cards, you’d still need all the cardboard

3 hours ago, Dice lord said:

I traded in my old Flames of war rulebook at a flgs for the new edition. For free.

Good thing the rules for 2.0 are gonna be online for free

2 hours ago, Kubernes said:

$300 for conversion kits for playing multiple factions and using more ships than the number of dials listed in the FAQ

Or depending on the numbers you need, you get them second hand. If you have 100 points of every ship; then yes, it will cost you more to convert them all. This doesn’t strike me as particularly wrong.

2 hours ago, Kubernes said:

$90 for a set of three medium bases (maybe just two but that depends on the medium ships)

Every conversion kit already gives you 4

2 hours ago, Kubernes said:

$60-100 for the two new trilogy kits with a price fluctuation on the cheap of $30 to the $50 of the current ones

Who knows how much this’ll be. They’ll also contain more copies of each ship and doesn’t happen until some unknown point in the future

and you don’t actually *have* to fly all 5 factions

5 hours ago, Dice lord said:

I traded in my old Flames of war rulebook at a flgs for the new edition. For free.

Not really the same thing is it?

7 hours ago, Dice lord said:

Only one, but many appear to have similar views apparently - I feel I suggested something different in that conversion of existing printed material could've been achieved in a downloaded PDF; especially for those not interested in having tournament "approved" material.

I'm becoming more and more certain that they're all dummy accounts for a small team of North Korean hackers intent on destroying the western way of life. Their primary focus is disrupting the rest and relaxation of others via a phenomenon known as "BS Group Think". Friends in high places have told me that we board gamers - as the most social of the game groups - are the last line of defence against these terrorists...

8 hours ago, Kubernes said:

People who are simply saying that $50 alone is enough to convert to the new edition haven’t really thought much about it.

There’s the cost for other kits if you play more factions plus the need for multiple kits if you play swarms. There’s also the need for a core set plus the need for the new medium base.

$40 core set

$300 for conversion kits for playing multiple factions and using more ships than the number of dials listed in the FAQ

$90 for a set of three medium bases (maybe just two but that depends on the medium ships)

$60-100 for the two new trilogy kits with a price fluctuation on the cheap of $30 to the $50 of the current ones

This is alot more money than that simple $50 people parade around.

$90 is the figure most stated. Core set and one conversion kit, because not everyone has a compulsion to hoard all they can that's related to an obsession. It'll cost $350 maximum to convert for standard play - two of each conversion kit and one core. Add another $60 for the new trilogy ships later on.

The cost of a "full" 100/6 collection is immense. By my count, you're looking at at least 5.6 k if you wanted to field every possible combination of ships and upgrades. It's probably higher than this by quite a bit, but I don't have time to work everything out. Regardless, you're paying about 5% of the original cost to upgrade everything you own for standard play to second edition. If you own less of anything you can sell or trade the extras as singles to make up a significant amount of your investment in conversion.

I wouldn't be paying $90 to get a whole new collection. I would be paying $90 to lose three quarters of my old collection.

I pay them more money, and in return I lose three quarters of my collection? And I should be HAPPY about it?

5 minutes ago, Chucknuckle said:

I wouldn't be paying $90 to get a whole new collection. I would be paying $90 to lose three quarters of my old collection.

I pay them more money, and in return I lose three quarters of my collection? And I should be HAPPY about it?

No. You pay $40 for the core set of an entirely new game. Then you have the option of buying one or more conversion kits at $50 each for the privilege of using ships from another game in this newer, far superior game.

Heck yes, you should be happy about it.

1 minute ago, Astech said:

No. You pay $40 for the core set of an entirely new game. Then you have the option of buying one or more conversion kits at $50 each for the privilege of using ships from another game in this newer, far superior game.

Heck yes, you should be happy about it.

This is entirely delusional. I've been through many edition changes with many games, and while there's almost always a cost involved I've never seen players collections held to ransom like this before. You can push yourself through mental hoops about it being a new game if you want, but it doesn't change the facts:

I pay $90 and lose three quarters of my collection. To unlock my entire collection with official conversion kits would cost more than $400. Two Imperial kits, two rebel kits, a First Order kit, a Resistance kit, an Epic kit and a new Starter.

It's undeniably a barrier to entry. The cost of conversion is high, no matter how you justify it or what comparisons you draw. It's a lot of money. The sheer Volume of people upset about the price prove that a lot of people consider the price to be very high. It's rubbing people the wrong way.

44 minutes ago, Chucknuckle said:

This is entirely delusional. I've been through many edition changes with many games, and while there's almost always a cost involved I've never seen players collections held to ransom like this before. You can push yourself through mental hoops about it being a new game if you want, but it doesn't change the facts:

I pay $90 and lose three quarters of my collection. To unlock my entire collection with official conversion kits would cost more than $400. Two Imperial kits, two rebel kits, a First Order kit, a Resistance kit, an Epic kit and a new Starter.

It's undeniably a barrier to entry. The cost of conversion is high, no matter how you justify it or what comparisons you draw. It's a lot of money. The sheer Volume of people upset about the price prove that a lot of people consider the price to be very high. It's rubbing people the wrong way.

Please define 'held to ransom', because it's extreme hyperbole here and out of context to boot.

You pay 90$ to get 40 or so ships for a phenomenal reboot of a game, with guaranteed tournament support and enormous player presence.

The cost of conversion is approximately 5% of the cost of your collection. If you're a compulsive hoarder of ships you've got the money to burn. If you're a reasonable consumer you've got cards to trade from each pack to convert your whole fleet on the cheap, and if you're a rookie pilot with a small collection the singles market is there for you. If you actually count the number of people on either side of the argument, compared to the amount that simply don't care about it, you'll find that both extremes are a teeny minority.

19 minutes ago, Astech said:

Please define 'held to ransom', because it's extreme hyperbole here and out of context to boot.

You pay 90$ to get 40 or so ships for a phenomenal reboot of a game, with guaranteed tournament support and enormous player presence.

The cost of conversion is approximately 5% of the cost of your collection. If you're a compulsive hoarder of ships you've got the money to burn. If you're a reasonable consumer you've got cards to trade from each pack to convert your whole fleet on the cheap, and if you're a rookie pilot with a small collection the singles market is there for you. If you actually count the number of people on either side of the argument, compared to the amount that simply don't care about it, you'll find that both extremes are a teeny minority.

I pay $90, and can't use any of my Imperial, First Order, Scum, Resistance or Huge ships. Unless I give FFG even more money. And even with that $90, I can only use half to a third of my Rebel collection because, like many others, I have 4+ of the ships I like (mostly the OT ships).

Trading cards won't help, because every man and his dog will be chasing more small based ships and trying to offload their extra large based ships. Unless you want to swap the two X Wings out of the conversion kit for two Ghost conversion sets? No? I didn't think so.

9 minutes ago, Chucknuckle said:

I pay $90, and can't use any of my Imperial, First Order, Scum, Resistance or Huge ships. Unless I give FFG even more money. And even with that $90, I can only use half to a third of my Rebel collection because, like many others, I have 4+ of the ships I like (mostly the OT ships).

Trading cards won't help, because every man and his dog will be chasing more small based ships and trying to offload their extra large based ships. Unless you want to swap the two X Wings out of the conversion kit for two Ghost conversion sets? No? I didn't think so.

Sort of like how we all pay $160 for a Raider and we can't use it with a free CR-90? It's the same situation as always - you've got to pay for the things you want to use. If you can't view it as a new game entirely, view the conversion kits as typical 'ace packs' like G4H, where you're paying for fixes to ships.

Not for Ghosts, no. But I'd offload my X-wing converts because I don't intend to fly more than 2 generics ever. I'd take Kihraxz fighters in trade. The same goes for a majority of Empire sets, since I've only got a few copies of each. I could, personally, probably get away with only getting two of the three conversion kits, yet still end up with my whole collection converted.

It's actually conceivable that somebody would want 2 Ghost converts too. I know a few people who have two, and aren't likely to get anything except for the Empire kit, yet love their Ghosts. They probably wouldn't give me Kihraxzs though, but they'd definitely give me a spare quad jumper (my favourite ship).

So long as you're willing to make it a communal effort, and so long as everyone in your community has equally bloated collections, you'll be able to work out a trade. As an extreme, you could even consider trading away 1-2 of your models for a bundle of conversions for other ships.

12 hours ago, Kubernes said:

People who are simply saying that $50 alone is enough to convert to the new edition haven’t really thought much about it.

There’s the cost for other kits if you play more factions plus the need for multiple kits if you play swarms. There’s also the need for a core set plus the need for the new medium base.

$40 core set

$300 for conversion kits for playing multiple factions and using more ships than the number of dials listed in the FAQ

$90 for a set of three medium bases (maybe just two but that depends on the medium ships)

$60-100 for the two new trilogy kits with a price fluctuation on the cheap of $30 to the $50 of the current ones

This is alot more money than that simple $50 people parade around.

Right, because eBay doesn't exist and no-one will be selling singles of stuff they're not interested in.

*eye roll*