Not really 'fixes' or 'broken things' - really just ideas to capture Star Wars theme better

• Breakout of to-hit from damage. This would have allowed, for example, torpedoes that are more difficult to hit with...but do a lot of damage; or missiles that hit very easily, but do very little damage. 1st edition touched on the second part of that a LITTLE with...well, cannons, of all things - the ion or flechette with 'roll x dice, if this hits cancel all dice and do y effect with 1 damage'. Odd choice for a cannon, anyway. But the first part never really appeared at all, either way.
• Less variety of speed choices. Every single ship in the game has a 2-forward. Practically everything (maybe all of it?) has 2-banks and 3-banks, with just the color differing. A 4-bank maneuver would have done a lot to introduce new options for higher speed units that are more difficult to maneuver at slower speeds.
• "Switch your deflector shields on -- double front!" I mean, seriously, one of the earliest lines going into the FIRST major space battle in the franchise...and we still have no corresponding ability. Sort of addressed by 'reinforce', although the X-Wing cannot use that action, so...???
• Still annoyed that there is no flag on which ships have hyperdrive, and which don't. It's a small thing, but makes a big difference for scenario play, for those into that, speaking of which...
• Have we all played 'Armada'? Some of us? "Objectives"?? I mean, of everything for X-Wing 2.0 to pass on...SOMETHING OTHER THAN DEATHMATCH AND DEATHMATCH ONLY would have been, I dunno, super awesome. SOME kind of objectives. Heck, even if you keep it in the FPS video game flavor and it's just capture-the-flag or team-rabbit or king-of-the-hill or whatever. Just...something other than always-deathmatch, all-the-time, as part of the core rules.

Anyway, minor nits to pick. Overall, 2nd edition does look like an epic improvement on this, but...

Well, heck, it took us six years before the X-Wings got "Lock S-Foils into attack position!" so I guess an equal amount of time before 'shields double front' may be expected... ?

1) similar to your point 1, I wish there was a better way to have ships with low attack values remain viable. It’s better than 1.0 seemingly, but I was hoping for something more like legion when it came to defense dice. One of the things I like about Armada is that the fighters feel “right”. A wings and tie fighters don’t have a high max damage, but they still do damage. In x wing, a wings and tie fighters don’t just do less damage, they have a hard time doing any damage at all. As long as defense dice are a set value based on the defender as opposed to the attack being made, I think it’s going to be an issue.

2) I’m with you on the missions and scenarios. I don’t know if I’m alone in this, but I actually played the little missions that came with the expansions and they were fun, but not really meant to be played over and over again. I’m perfectly fine with the major tournaments remaining 100/6 (well, 200/6), but a more varied selection of standard pick up game type formats would be most welcome along with a campaign or two.

Don't you think Objectives would've made this game too similar to Armada ? How are we gonna choose if both Armada and X-Wing are the same game with different scales?

I wish they had gone farther in banishing passive dice mods. The Force seems like a big offender there.

Also, I don't like the Luke Skywalker gunner card. If you can move your are arc for free at the start of combat, you're basically as good as the old 360 degree turrets were. I'm sure he's expensive, etc., etc., but the turret mechanic was unfun long before turrets were OP.

Keep in mind guys, OP is going to have scenario events with ship restrictions and such as well as 200/6 competitive play now

Imperial only upgrade slot

40 minutes ago, kraedin said:

I wish they had gone farther in banishing passive dice mods. The Force seems like a big offender there.

Not to mention it is an infinite, regenerating resource. I like it though, because it differentiates the power players from the other characters. It is one of the only few things left that give you a sense of feeling powerful. Also note that they should be costed higher than regular pilots, with pilot skill having its own separate tax. So far we know pilot skill has a big tax, but we don't know if being high ps force user is more costly than a high ps non force user. Very important is the force cap a ship can have, because that is what they can normally spend per turn. Even though it is infinite advantage, blanks will eventually be rolled and ships will die. But that brings another issue.

What I don't like is that now luck plays a bigger factor. Sure, piloting helps, but dice matter much more now, and having that 1 per turn palp-like modifier is big. It is really funny that now every force user is basically palp-supported, while palp himself only gives pseudo force modifiers to any ship, and having a squadron full of force users is far better than having palp supporting other ships.

Luke + Ezra + whatever else looks very strong. Luke because high ps, force user and infinite force modifications on defense, or extra, mid-combat force regen if no eyeballs are rolled. Ezra because 1 force can modify as if it was 2 force, without needing to be stressed. From what it is not shown, I fear the resistance will be incredibly strong. They already said they are basically super stars, add Leia as force user and it will get out of hand, hopefully no pilots with force. For empire, maybe generic force user inquisitors may be strong.

They made torpedoes high accuracy and high damage and missiles low accuracy and low damage. I would have preferred to have ordnance break away from dice = accuracy and damage model.

New die types to add some distinction between weapon types especially Torps vs Missiles.

Some variation on who is first player during the game to prevent that being such a strong thing to get.

Thaaaats about it.

2 hours ago, spacelion said:

Don't you think Objectives would've made this game too similar to Armada ? How are we gonna choose if both Armada and X-Wing are the same game with different scales?

I don't really think so, no - not least because there is a LOT about Armada that causes more thoughtful play and planning (I mean, the 6-turn cap, as well as the vastly slower speeds of the ships combined with much higher potentiall lethality) that the overall flavor the games would be quite different.

It would really just provide more variety to X-Wing.

2 hours ago, Nyxen said:

Keep in mind guys, OP is going to have scenario events with ship restrictions and such as well as 200/6 competitive play now

Yeah, I only wish that was true. I mean, how many of us where here for Imdaar Alpha? It was a major X-Wing event, with specific build restrictions, and then you played!...a deathmatch with 6 obstacles.

The build restrictions where the only change, and they really didn't change anything.

I too would love generic objectives for play that still allowed you to pick your own force. And I'd also love to see campaign play of some type with an app to support it and make it really easy to keep track of for all players involved. I also wouldn't mind some new obstacles though I suspect that is coming down the line. Mostly just stuff to give variety to the usual death match or to give context to the battles. Other than that I think 2.0 looks fantastic so far.

56 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

New die types to add some distinction between weapon types especially Torps vs Missiles.

Some variation on who is first player during the game to prevent that being such a strong thing to get.

Thaaaats about it.

These are pretty much the two I would have wanted.

Something to distinguish between missiles and torps even a little bit, like set damage after they hit.

Some way to minimise the impact of losing the initiative roll in a mirror game.

But 2e so far looks to be a huge improvement in so many ways that I'm not remotely upset.

2 hours ago, xanderf said:

I don't really think so, no - not least because there is a LOT about Armada that causes more thoughtful play and planning (I mean, the 6-turn cap, as well as the vastly slower speeds of the ships combined with much higher potentiall lethality) that the overall flavor the games would be quite different.

It would really just provide more variety to X-Wing.

Yeah, I only wish that was true. I mean, how many of us where here for Imdaar Alpha? It was a major X-Wing event, with specific build restrictions, and then you played!...a deathmatch with 6 obstacles.

The build restrictions where the only change, and they really didn't change anything.

To be fair, Imdaar Alpha was their take on a prerelease, and its in one of their announcements about 2.0 that they're expanding the OP kits to include just those sorts of things...

Not normally one to post, but a lurker with ideas.

Why did they not split the ship and pilot card into 2 cards?

I mean, it would really open up the game choices, and would be easy to do.

Each ship would then have 1 generic card.

Then the pilot card and ship title card would add to it. Along with any upgrades.

This would allow pilots like Luke, for example, to fly the Falcon, (which he does in the expanded content) or an E-wing, or any other ship he gets onboard.

Even Leia flies the Falcon in the Films.

If they did that in 2.0 then I'd be more inclined to get it.

I see no reason not to do this, other than people saying certain pilots should never fly certain ships, although they can always fly ships together in combnations that should otherwise never happen, like pilots who die in A New Hope along side Ships that only appear in Jedi.

No benefit of hindsight:

1. No repositioning, because that relieves you from predicting your enemy's moves. The force is strong with you? Prove it.

2. Adjustable turrets. Point your turret in the direction you think your enemy is.

Missiles and torpedoes that can be dodged. Give them their own counters and maneuvres. Homing missiles have a better dial than proton torpedoes. Missiles are now either to weak to take them or decide the match with an alpha strike in the first or second round, which is even more boring.

1 hour ago, max_ryan said:

Why did they not split the ship and pilot card into 2 cards?

Because of the difficulty of costing synergy effects. Luke is probably a lot more dangerous in an E-Wing.

I don' see an issue, an E-wing could cost more than an X wing, so overall, yes more dangerous but also more expensive.

1 hour ago, max_ryan said:

Why did they not split the ship and pilot card into 2 cards?

This.

Just have a pilot card with a nice image, a Pilot Skill / Initiative value, maybe add a restriction on whether the pilot can be attached to small, medium and/or large ships. Then add a certain special action or ability to strong pilots. The Force could also be a part of the pilot cards instead of the ships with a baked-in pilot.

indeed, Luke could fly a Y-Wing if you wanted, just like he did in the Star Wars Holiday Special. Have Han as a pilot card with a restriction to only large ships (possibly medium as well) to restrict him from engaging the enemy in Sabine's TIE (and give him the all-powerful ability to always perform the first attack in any given round, of course).

A missed opportunity?

2 hours ago, max_ryan said:

Not normally one to post, but a lurker with ideas.

Why did they not split the ship and pilot card into 2 cards?

I mean, it would really open up the game choices, and would be easy to do.

Each ship would then have 1 generic card.

Then the pilot card and ship title card would add to it. Along with any upgrades.

This would allow pilots like Luke, for example, to fly the Falcon, (which he does in the expanded content) or an E-wing, or any other ship he gets onboard.

Even Leia flies the Falcon in the Films.

If they did that in 2.0 then I'd be more inclined to get it.

I see no reason not to do this, other than people saying certain pilots should never fly certain ships, although they can always fly ships together in combnations that should otherwise never happen, like pilots who die in A New Hope along side Ships that only appear in Jedi.

This was done in attack wing and is generally regarded to be terrible. Abilities then have to be designed to be useful on all ship chassis and can result in specific combos becoming overpowered. Or even for ability to be too weak if the designers are too conservative.

Also you end up with more table space being taken up by cards. Some people are already annoyed with the size changes for upgrades in 2.0.

For 2.0 this can be addressed with the new tag lines under each pilot title. Using Luke as an example again the current pilot is "Red 5".

There is no reason that a new Luke Pilot card for an Ewing cannot be released at a later date with the tagline"Rogue Leader" or whatever his callsign was when he flew an E-wing in order to differentiate the card. The use of these taglines opens up the design space in a similar way to Imperial assault which does have two Luke minis each with different tag lines showing where they come from in the OT. "hero of the Rebellion" for ANH and ESB along with "Jedi Knight" for ROTJ.

7 hours ago, kraedin said:

Also, I don't like the Luke Skywalker gunner card. If you can move your are arc for free at the start of combat, you're basically as good as the old 360 degree turrets were. I'm sure he's expensive, etc., etc., but the turret mechanic was unfun long before turrets were OP.

90% sure (based on the appearance of the [rotate turret] action icon on the card) that it is a free [rotate turret] action. Not just “rotate turret for free.” Therefore, no taking a Boost/red maneuver and Lukeing. And there should be some counterplay through action denial.

And he’s bound to be ridiculously expensive. And he’s unique. And they’ve changed actions/abilities to prevent super unkillable ships.

I understand the frustration but it’s very early to tell how much Luke will actually result in a fat turret meta (and the rough translation from Polish doesn’t help)

I’m missing:

1. Clear missile vs torpedo distinction (but maybe this is coming)

2. A way to trade energy between speed, shields, and lasers.

3. A campaign game / expansion (but maybe this is coming)

10 hours ago, xanderf said:

Not really 'fixes' or 'broken things' - really just ideas to capture Star Wars theme better

• Breakout of to-hit from damage. This would have allowed, for example, torpedoes that are more difficult to hit with...but do a lot of damage; or missiles that hit very easily, but do very little damage. 1st edition touched on the second part of that a LITTLE with...well, cannons, of all things - the ion or flechette with 'roll x dice, if this hits cancel all dice and do y effect with 1 damage'. Odd choice for a cannon, anyway. But the first part never really appeared at all, either way. 
• Less variety of speed choices. Every single ship in the game has a 2-forward. Practically everything (maybe all of it?) has 2-banks and 3-banks, with just the color differing. A 4-bank maneuver would have done a lot to introduce new options for higher speed units that are more difficult to maneuver at slower speeds.
• "Switch your deflector shields on -- double front!" I mean, seriously, one of the earliest lines going into the FIRST major space battle in the franchise...and we still have no corresponding ability. Sort of addressed by 'reinforce', although the X-Wing cannot use that action, so...???
• Still annoyed that there is no flag on which ships have hyperdrive, and which don't. It's a small thing, but makes a big difference for scenario play, for those into that, speaking of which...
• Have we all played 'Armada'? Some of us? "Objectives"?? I mean, of everything for X-Wing 2.0 to pass on...SOMETHING OTHER THAN DEATHMATCH AND DEATHMATCH ONLY would have been, I dunno, super awesome. SOME kind of objectives. Heck, even if you keep it in the FPS video game flavor and it's just capture-the-flag or team-rabbit or king-of-the-hill or whatever. Just...something other than always-deathmatch, all-the-time, as part of the core rules.

Anyway, minor nits to pick. Overall, 2nd edition does look like an epic improvement on this, but...

Well, heck, it took us six years before the X-Wings got "Lock S-Foils into attack position!" so I guess an equal amount of time before 'shields double front' may be expected... ?

I certainly wish there was more built-in support for Scenario play.

However, I'm not sure I like the thought of further decoupling damage and dice. Consider a hypothetical 2-attack cannon/missile/whatever that, if it hits, cancels all results and does 3 damage. This would whiff almost every time against something like a TIE Defender or Interceptor, but would tear the everloving **** out of B-Wings and low agility ships. Personally, I don't think that's great. First, with a TIE Interceptor as an example, I think it'd feel terrible to have to roll off against a 2-dice attack, that likely misses, but blank out and you've just been one-shotted. That feels unfun to me, and the worst aspect of a dice game. Second, ships like B-Wings already feel almost over-punished for their low agility. It's really easy to burn these kinds of ships down, and I don't think what the game needed was a way to make that easier. The "guaranteed damage" of TLTs against low-agility ships is something I find unfun and don't really want more of. I greatly prefer when incremental dice success has a direct impact on the game, personally.

Now, that's all a sense from not playing with such upgrades. Maybe folks have more experience in custom cards of effects like this, but I'm skeptical it'd be fun in this kind of game.

10 hours ago, xanderf said:

Not really 'fixes' or 'broken things' - really just ideas to capture Star Wars theme better

• "Switch your deflector shields on -- double front!" I mean, seriously, one of the earliest lines going into the FIRST major space battle in the franchise...and we still have no corresponding ability. Sort of addressed by 'reinforce', although the X-Wing cannot use that action, so...???

Well, heck, it took us six years before the X-Wings got "Lock S-Foils into attack position!" so I guess an equal amount of time before 'shields double front' may be expected... ?

This. Though, with the fact that each ship card has the front and back half divided now, the design space is there. In fact, all cards are divided into 4 diagonal quarters in addition to fore and aft. They may have half a dozen abilities in mind that depend on the ships facing relative to enemy ships. And we don't know what upgrade cards are in the conversion packs so it could already be a thing.

9 hours ago, kraedin said:

I wish they had gone farther in banishing passive dice mods. The Force seems like a big offender there.

Also, I don't like the Luke Skywalker gunner card. If you can move your are arc for free at the start of combat, you're basically as good as the old 360 degree turrets were. I'm sure he's expensive, etc., etc., but the turret mechanic was unfun long before turrets were OP.

We don't know costs yet. Force abilities may make Luke cost 6-8 points more than Wedge.

mostly scenario objectives (which may have just not been announced yet)

and GREEN DICE

but eh. Between my collection hopefully being made relevant again and turrets getting gutted like they all deserved, I got more than enough to be happy about

3 hours ago, Xcapobl said:

This.

Just have a pilot card with a nice image, a Pilot Skill / Initiative value, maybe add a restriction on whether the pilot can be attached to small, medium and/or large ships. Then add a certain special action or ability to strong pilots. The Force could also be a part of the pilot cards instead of the ships with a baked-in pilot.

indeed, Luke could fly a Y-Wing if you wanted, just like he did in the Star Wars Holiday Special. Have Han as a pilot card with a restriction to only large ships (possibly medium as well) to restrict him from engaging the enemy in Sabine's TIE (and give him the all-powerful ability to always perform the first attack in any given round, of course).

A missed opportunity?

Maybe, maybe not. Some pilot abilities aren't balanced on some ships. Star Trek Attack Wing had split pilot/ship, and to my knowledge, that has caused problems.