11 hours ago, Kristjan said:Usually that list has a cheap corvette as an admiral caddie. It's really tough to chase that thing down after dealing with everything else.
And this is yet another reason to have a Raider in the list
I think that we'll see more of admiral lifeboats in the future, so dedicated lifeboat killers are going to be useful.
2 hours ago, moodswing5537 said:No, what I'm trying to tell you is that the forums are not the place the game designers go in order to fix game balance. Honestly, I think you hit the nail on the head when you stated:
" The playtesters are here, and have opinions."
I think the playtesters went to FFG and said "hey, I don't know if you guys know this, but one of your admins put up a forum for armada like a gazillion years ago and people actually formed a community over there and they kinda are pissed about a few things....."
FFG: "Oh, thats nice...so, what are you folks winning a lot with...."
Playtester #1: "MAN! I take this Rymer guy, some bombers, all the aces, and jendon and like 6 flotillas and I relay from the next county over. It Wrecks Face!"
FFG: "hhhmmm....<Picks up Nerf bat>"
I would have to be given serious evidence that FFG has "Their finger on the pulse" of the community before I would make such a statement.
Also, I don't know why, but the avatar pics are broken for me in the profile edit page, so when you see me change so many times lately, it's because I'm having to guess which one I want. Kinda sux.
I think it is more likely that the Nerf was caused by a flood of FAQ/Nerf requests, compounded by the playtesters not being exposed to enough opposing opinions here.
I love a good argument, and even I avoided most of the 20 "Nerf Flotillas/Relay/Yavaris/GH/Avenger" threads. They just became so ridiculous, I couldn't even take them seriously.
FFG: We are getting a lot of complaints about Flotillas/Relay/Yavaris/GH/Avenger, we are thinking of smacking them with our Nerf bat. What do you think about these changes?
Playtesters: Wow, these are EXACTLY what everyone on the forums is calling for! Everyone is going to love these. These are the changes Armada needs!
Except the opposing opinions we're never heard. Those of us who found the "Nerf it" threads ridiculous, allowed the appearance of near unanimity, because one post of Armada is fine, with 7 likes, just doesn't carry the same weight as 7 people voicing their preferred Nerfs, that are absolutely needed, the data proves it!
Am I allowed to say that I like the nerfs and what they did for the game? Even though I wasn't clamoring for any of them to happen before they did?
13 hours ago, FrightfulCommand said:These one-line, dismissive smirks are so destructive to any sort of conversation.
Pretty amazing that this still happened despite the fact that this happened before your post.
15 hours ago, Drasnighta said:I felt a lot was written, but my actual question wasn’t answered...
If you'd rather a less passive aggressive answer, perhaps you could stop and assess what @geek19 was trying to achieve, gently with some sarcastic humor point out that while the effort was laudable, the question went unanswered. The intent was not to destroy conversation, but recenter it.
58 minutes ago, geek19 said:Am I allowed to say that I like the nerfs and what they did for the game? Even though I wasn't clamoring for any of them to happen before they did?
NO!
?
11 minutes ago, moodswing5537 said:NO!
?
This
2 hours ago, geek19 said:Am I allowed to say that I like the nerfs and what they did for the game? Even though I wasn't clamoring for any of them to happen before they did?
I don't think I came across anyone at Worlds who felt differently. For some people the only real holdout was the flotilla cap, and the worst I heard about that was they didn't care for it at first, but they came around on it. I saw a lot of combat ships at Worlds and despite the fact that the final match was boring (for predictable reasons given the "winner, even by one point/tiebreaker, takes all" system), there was a lot of engagement and ships being blown up all over the place otherwise.
4 hours ago, geek19 said:Am I allowed to say that I like the nerfs and what they did for the game? Even though I wasn't clamoring for any of them to happen before they did?
Me the same. I think the tabling rule would have been enough though.
6 hours ago, geek19 said:Am I allowed to say that I like the nerfs and what they did for the game? Even though I wasn't clamoring for any of them to happen before they did?
Absolutely, I don't want to silence anyone, I just want to be vocal in my disagreement with some of the opinions. I honestly believe the heavy handed nature of the nerfs was the direct result of a lack of vocal opposing opinions. I want to hear different points of view than my own. Sometimes they will sway my opinion, sometimes I will argue against their validity across the whole of Armada.
35 minutes ago, cynanbloodbane said:Absolutely, I don't want to silence anyone, I just want to be vocal in my disagreement with some of the opinions. I honestly believe the heavy handed nature of the nerfs was the direct result of a lack of vocal opposing opinions. I want to hear different points of view than my own. Sometimes they will sway my opinion, sometimes I will argue against their validity across the whole of Armada.
Errata happens after the FFG playtester teams (who playtest everything else we get) play around with proposed solutions to issues and report back to FFG, which compiles all the playtester feedback and decides what steps to take. The playtesters have their own forum where they discuss matters amongst themselves. If the playtesters feel like something was unwarranted or too much, they'd report that (and presumably they have in the past, but NDAs will leave that forever unknown to most of us).
You seem to be assuming that FFG reads the forums and then decides what to do based on what people here are saying, but anything we get has been playtested for some time before we get it. The only influence the forums have over the process would be identifying problems and offering up possible solutions that would then be playtested. If the arguments (either for the problem or a proposed solution) aren't terribly convincing, they're not going to go very far.
2 hours ago, Snipafist said:Errata happens after the FFG playtester teams (who playtest everything else we get) play around with proposed solutions to issues and report back to FFG, which compiles all the playtester feedback and decides what steps to take. The playtesters have their own forum where they discuss matters amongst themselves. If the playtesters feel like something was unwarranted or too much, they'd report that (and presumably they have in the past, but NDAs will leave that forever unknown to most of us).
You seem to be assuming that FFG reads the forums and then decides what to do based on what people here are saying, but anything we get has been playtested for some time before we get it. The only influence the forums have over the process would be identifying problems and offering up possible solutions that would then be playtested. If the arguments (either for the problem or a proposed solution) aren't terribly convincing, they're not going to go very far.
Ok, I get that, but the playtesters are here as well, if the only vocal opinion they are getting is X, Y and Z are broken and can only be fixed with a hard Nerf, that is what they are going to be leaning towards of the options FFG gives them. And yes FFG is influenced by what is posted here. It is just company policy not to respond.
This isn't my first interaction with a game company forum. Though I will say it is the least interactive. Every single game company with a forum community uses that forum as cheap market research. It is not the be all, end all, just a small cross section of the fan base, but it is useful.
Unrelated to the discussion, but every other game company forum I have ever been on also has a rules guru.
Thanks for being ours @Drasnighta !