Well that is a crappy thing to say.

We like to play games by the rules and D&D does not have the proper tools that keep us happy. That does not mean we are rules mongers. It does not mean that we don't tweak games a little either. But if you have to ignore up to 25% of the rules for a game (which is what we were doing for our D&D game), then there is something wrong with the game. The rules for a game usually reflect how the game is played and that is not our cup of tea (but we wanted to try out the new system to see what it was like).

And the point of buying a piticuar game is usually for the system and the style of play it supports. After all, if you are throwing out a good % of the rules, then why not just make up your own? I don't judge people who don't care about those systems and still play a game.

My players go along with it no matter and we can make any game with a crappy system fun (take our Serenity game for example). I was the one running the D&D game and when it comes to me running a game, I am really picky about the system. If I am playing a game, then I am not so picky.

So don't jude, Judge Judy!

I don't really consider it overly judgemental, because he's partially right. The set of guys and gals I usually played D&D with had some really great players and a few munchkins. It's hard to fault the munchkins in that system because most of D&D at face value, and specifically that game, was hack and slash combat. When introduced to other games, I found the munchkins not only toned town their ways from D&D, but preferred the new systems. I mean, a former D&D druid power gaming type is now playing a rather bookish Adept in Dark Heresy vOv

Anyone who is a good story teller and a good roleplayer can make "rock paper scissors" into an awesome roleplaying game. But a lot of ink is spent on printing all of these pages. If someone is not happy with the results, no matter how good of a story teller they are, then either there is something wrong with the game or the game is not right for the person running it.

There is more to rules than a resolution system and D&D has done some awesome things with there game. But for as big as D&D is and for as long as it has been out, you would think that they would have had the most awesome system out there (in fact, I feel the same thing about Windows). I am going to shy away from slamming that game too much, but I will say that the things I did not like about the game would have changed some of the game's main functions,

The fact that I was not happy with the whole game has nothing to do with my players. They wanted to play a game, I wanted to try out D&D. I was not complety satisfied (which that is important if you are the one running and reading all of that stuff). They liked the sessions we played and are even more excited about trying out the new Warhmmer (and we love the Dark Heresy game the other GM is running). But to say I have a bad gaming group is pretty judgmental.

It seems there's a small misunderstanding: my comment about the bad group was not aimed at Dustin, but at this:

"What a waste of ridiculous eyeball monsters! Foolish wizard should find a way to permanently control them, and jam those suckers in a portable hole for whenever he needs a personal army of laser eyeball masses.

But the Stay Puff Marshmallow Man is pretty cool I guess vOv

*Edit: for clarification, this banter is not off topic. It's a very real simulation of standard D&D discourse in action, and a great example of why the system is breathtakingly terrible for those who doubt!"

And I just felt talk about laser eyeballs etc. was detrimental to the atmosphere in a D&D game and I wanted to point out that is not D&D's fault.

Holy crap! I am so sorry Ludlov! This is embarrassing.....

um... carry on.....

It's D&D who made the beholders, which are best described as a mass of eyeballs that shoot lasers. Because this is essentially what they are. I'm a little confused at how this is detrimental to your atmosphere, but I'm sorry for your immersion being insulted by what happens at another table I suppose!

Heheh, no problem, Dustin, it was my fault for neglecting to use the quote function.

To Bobby: I should have phrased my post better, all I meant to say was that D&D isn't crappy and is in its own way, quite good in my opinion - and it's not D&D's fault if players aren't involved in the story or the world. Of course, no group is bad because they call Beholders laser-shooting eyeballs :-) We joke around during our games, too. So never mind, it was a stupid post of mine

Eh, I tend to poke fun at most games, including Warhammer. But this thread is specifically for mocking D&D! One of the funniest D&D moments for me came when I and another player started banter on how a mimic would breed. By the end of it the DM was in stitches. Even D&D addicts have to admit that it sports some of the most ridiculous monsters ever created. Like anything from the original fiend folio :S

*Edit: Scratch that, I forgot Rifts. I also can't believe there's more skulls in Rifts than in Warhammer. That takes some serious effort.