Problem with beefing up ions is it would be kinda hard to make them do more than limit energy and not have them be overwhelming too.

For instance if you just went "If you have 5 ion tokens, do not assign a dial and your epic ship performs a white stop maneuver and gains no energy" then you could potentially completely halt the dang thing, since mass ioning it shouldnt be that tough to do atm.

i'd be fine with something like that if it didnt impact energy generation (assuming we still have the energy mechanic) building up to those 5 tokens.

Big change in Epic i'd like to see is varied weapon stats depending on the target.

I.e. Single Laser Cannon should not be hitting a small ship without one **** of a shot (or one stupid pilot). It should be rolling 2 dice against small ships, but cause excessive damage if it hits. Technically speaking if a small ship actually got hit by that thing, its toast.
Mediums 3 dice but not as much extra damage for hits.
Large/Huge 4 dice, no extra damage (potentially just no extra damage against huge?)

Biggest issue i had with huge ships in 1.0 is their offense felt really pathetic, even against other huge ships which their weapons are supposed to be used against. And they werent very good support ships because of the action-starved thing.

the Lawst rules proposal drops energy in favor of the charges mechanic, allowing them to attack more often per turn , and do more things in general. honestly it looks like a pretty good set of rules, hopefully FFG adopts most of them when it comes time to update Epic ships to 2.0.

Lawst is a step forward, but there was a lot in there I remember not liking. Some of it still feels shoe horned in. My one concern for epic right now is that first Ed had to cram it in to the game best it could because of its introduction timing. And I'm hoping they had a solid start to how epic was going to play before releasing second, or it will feel like it did before, a glitch rigged add-on.

Epic is a great concept and I want it to do well. But I don't want it to feel like the epic ship is just a giant super falcon of upgrade powered death. And I don't want to play a game piece by it's exceptions to the core rules or it's tie ons to the rules. For example I don't like the range five ruler. It's clunky to play with, it's difficult to store, and in the end it doesn't really represent the range well either to my mind. I'd rather see the mechanic that says the main guns and certain hard points can fire beyond range three and be done with it. So across the board you can start the artillery from the turbolaser artillery, from the beginning. Give me that epic cross fire y'know?

On 10/19/2018 at 4:26 PM, Vineheart01 said:

Problem with beefing up ions is it would be kinda hard to make them do more than limit energy and not have them be overwhelming too.

For instance if you just went "If you have 5 ion tokens, do not assign a dial and your epic ship performs a white stop maneuver and gains no energy" then you could potentially completely halt the dang thing, since mass ioning it shouldnt be that tough to do atm.

i'd be fine with something like that if it didnt impact energy generation (assuming we still have the energy mechanic) building up to those 5 tokens.

Big change in Epic i'd like to see is varied weapon stats depending on the target.

I.e. Single Laser Cannon should not be hitting a small ship without one **** of a shot (or one stupid pilot). It should be rolling 2 dice against small ships, but cause excessive damage if it hits. Technically speaking if a small ship actually got hit by that thing, its toast.
Mediums 3 dice but not as much extra damage for hits.
Large/Huge 4 dice, no extra damage (potentially just no extra damage against huge?)

Biggest issue i had with huge ships in 1.0 is their offense felt really pathetic, even against other huge ships which their weapons are supposed to be used against. And they werent very good support ships because of the action-starved thing  .

yeah its idiotic that chance-to-hit and damage correlate at all, they shouldnt

On 5/4/2018 at 4:20 PM, freakyg3 said:

Some things I would like to see -

small ships don't get auto crushed

Agreed. Think about how often we see a capital ship ram a small fighter in any sci-fi show. I can’t think of a single instance unless the fighter was somehow disabled.

Instead what if only ionized ships could be rammed? That would give Ion weapons a whole new threat level in epic matches. Any other ship run over by an epic ship could just be repositioned at range zero, similar to how it works in Armada.

Use the displace mechanic from Armada. Whoever owns the overlapping ship has their opponent place the overlapped ship touching the epic base facing the same direction. Get a stress or something.

Or you could have a rule that the overlapped ship may make a boost or barrel roll to attempt to escape being crushed at least. Again get a stress.

Yea, I have to admit that the "overlapping" rule in regular play is a completely kludgy mechanic IMO. Making small ships get destroyed in Epic only makes it worse. These ships should be zipping over and around these big ships not getting rammed and sideswiped by them. I am still trying to figure out a decent house rule mechanic to replace the mechanic, but its tough to account for all the possibilities. The original mechanic is so simple it works the same everytime, but it sure makes the game feel static.

59 minutes ago, Gloria Invictus said:

These  ships should be zipping over and around these big ships not getting rammed and sideswiped by them.  

Been thinking about this. Fighters can easily avoid the big capital ships because the big ships don’t maneuver very fast and the fighters have lots of time to react to whatever they do. In other words, the fighters can see the big ships maneuvers before committing to their own. What if epic had 2 planning phases. Huge ships set their dials, and then REVEALED them, but don’t yet move. Then the fighters set their dials. Then in the activation phase, fighters move as normal, and only after that do the huge ships execute their maneuver. So, when you are planning your moves, you know what the enemy capital ships are going to do in advance. Getting rammed is still possible, but it’s going to be either REALLY bad positioning, or a deliberate choice.

25 minutes ago, Forgottenlore said:

Been thinking about this. Fighters can easily avoid the big capital ships because the big ships don’t maneuver very fast and the fighters have lots of time to react to whatever they do. In other words, the fighters can see the big ships maneuvers before committing to their own. What if epic had 2 planning phases. Huge ships set their dials, and then REVEALED them, but don’t yet move. Then the fighters set their dials. Then in the activation phase, fighters move as normal, and only after that do the huge ships execute their maneuver. So, when you are planning your moves, you know what the enemy capital ships are going to do in advance. Getting rammed is still possible, but it’s going to be either REALLY bad positioning, or a deliberate choice.

oooo I do like that idea.

On 11/4/2018 at 12:48 AM, ForceSensitive said:

Use the displace mechanic from Armada. Whoever owns the overlapping ship has their opponent place the overlapped ship touching the epic base facing the same direction. Get a stress or something.

Or you could have a rule that the overlapped ship may make a boost or barrel roll to attempt to escape being crushed at least. Again get a stress.

18 hours ago, Forgottenlore said:

Been thinking about this. Fighters can easily avoid the big capital ships because the big ships don’t maneuver very fast and the fighters have lots of time to react to whatever they do. In other words, the fighters can see the big ships maneuvers before committing to their own. What if epic had 2 planning phases. Huge ships set their dials, and then REVEALED them, but don’t yet move. Then the fighters set their dials. Then in the activation phase, fighters move as normal, and only after that do the huge ships execute their maneuver. So, when you are planning your moves, you know what the enemy capital ships are going to do in advance. Getting rammed is still possible, but it’s going to be either REALLY bad positioning, or a deliberate choice.

I think both ideas could work actually..

"If your ship has (boost/barrel) you may execute said maneuver to avoid damage, receive 1 stress"

"if you cannot perform (boost/barrel), roll one red dice. suffer any damage. place ship beside huge base. (armada)" damage represents 'bouncing' off hull..

Possible mechanic involving multiple stress/ion tokens/tractor, avoiding the hit is unavoidable. roll a red dice. (or additional dice depending on size of base?)

other possible unavoidable hit involving damage cards wording restricting movement..

On 11/5/2018 at 3:42 PM, Forgottenlore said:

Been thinking about this. Fighters can easily avoid the big capital ships because the big ships don’t maneuver very fast and the fighters have lots of time to react to whatever they do. In other words, the fighters can see the big ships maneuvers before committing to their own. What if epic had 2 planning phases. Huge ships set their dials, and then REVEALED them, but don’t yet move. Then the fighters set their dials. Then in the activation phase, fighters move as normal, and only after that do the huge ships execute their maneuver. So, when you are planning your moves, you know what the enemy capital ships are going to do in advance. Getting rammed is still possible, but it’s going to be either REALLY bad positioning, or a deliberate choice.

So my thoughts on this:

Huge ships are predictable. Under 1.0 rules of you got crunched by an epic IT WAS YOUR FAULT. YOU FLEW IN FRONT OF THE THING THAT OUT WEIGHED YOU 100/1 AND FIGURED GOOD 'NUFF.

it's not that the huge ships moving last are ramming agile fighters. Because the turn is an abstraction of a few seconds of fighting. The huge ships moving last is specifically so that all smalls and larges can get out of the way before epics move regardless of crits or card effects. Lots of time to maneuver as was said above yeah?

Adding another phase of prediction for them is unnecessary. They can move at most 7 baselengths and turn 33° if you cant predict that.... then the issue isnt the mechanic.

What I absolutely dont want to see and would happen under the armada placement rules is bumper carring your own ships into good positions post init 6. Very easily abused.

Another thing I dont like the thematic image of is small ships skipping and bouncing off the surface of big ships. That just cuts out all the inertia and weight.

2 objects colliding at speed when one outweighs the other 100/1 absolutely should always destroy the 1

Its not about being able to predict their movement - its about a kludgy mechanic that doesn't really capture the feel of moving ships or 3 dimensional space. Not everything is about min maxing strategy

On 11/5/2018 at 5:42 PM, Forgottenlore said:

Been thinking about this. Fighters can easily avoid the big capital ships because the big ships don’t maneuver very fast and the fighters have lots of time to react to whatever they do. In other words, the fighters can see the big ships maneuvers before committing to their own. What if epic had 2 planning phases. Huge ships set their dials, and then REVEALED them, but don’t yet move. Then the fighters set their dials. Then in the activation phase, fighters move as normal, and only after that do the huge ships execute their maneuver. So, when you are planning your moves, you know what the enemy capital ships are going to do in advance. Getting rammed is still possible, but it’s going to be either REALLY bad positioning, or a deliberate choice.

On 11/7/2018 at 11:37 AM, Dabirdisdaword said:

So my thoughts on this:

Huge ships are predictable. Under 1.0 rules of you got crunched by an epic IT WAS YOUR FAULT. YOU FLEW IN FRONT OF THE THING THAT OUT WEIGHED YOU 100/1 AND FIGURED GOOD 'NUFF.

it's not that the huge ships moving last are ramming agile fighters. Because the turn is an abstraction of a few seconds of fighting. The huge ships moving last is specifically so that all smalls and larges can get out of the way before epics move regardless of crits or card effects. Lots of time to maneuver as was said above yeah?

Adding another phase of prediction for them is unnecessary. They can move at most 7 baselengths and turn 33° if you cant predict that.... then the issue isnt the mechanic.

What I absolutely dont want to see and would happen under the armada placement rules is bumper carring your own ships into good positions post init 6. Very easily abused.

Another thing I dont like the thematic image of is small ships skipping and bouncing off the surface of big ships. That just cuts out all the inertia and weight.

2 objects colliding at speed when one outweighs the other 100/1 absolutely should always destroy the 1

I mostly like FL's idea.

As it is now, the small agile fighters have to stay clear of a huge swath of space around the epic ships or risk "flying right in front of the thing" and getting squashed. Knowing what the epic ship's dial is set at seems like it could allow for a slightly better abstraction of small agile fighters swarming around a huge lumbering ship - you won't be forced to stay well clear of the right side when the large lumbering ship is moving left. This would allow small fighters to swoop in close and track the larger ship's movement. If you miss-judge and fly in too close and get squashed it really would be your fault.

However, I do acknowledge a couple of points. These epic ships probably aren't really huge lumbering giants like the kilometers long Star Destroyers etc they look pretty quick in some of the TV/game videos. Also, the epic ships would probably have to be toughened up a bit since they likely would be swarmed and hammered by more small ships. Hmmm, this might work for those of us who have custom giant ships though.

1 hour ago, Bullox said:

I mostly like FL's idea.

As it is now, the small agile fighters have to stay clear of a huge swath of space around the epic ships or risk "flying right in front of the thing" and getting squashed. Knowing what the epic ship's dial is set at seems like it could allow for a slightly better abstraction of small agile fighters swarming around a huge lumbering ship - you won't be forced to stay well clear of the right side when the large lumbering ship is moving left. This would allow small fighters to swoop in close and track the larger ship's movement. If you miss-judge and fly in too close and get squashed it really would be your fault.

However, I do acknowledge a couple of points. These epic ships probably aren't really huge lumbering giants like the kilometers long Star Destroyers etc they look pretty quick in some of the TV/game videos. Also, the epic ships would probably have to be toughened up a bit since they likely would be swarmed and hammered by more small ships. Hmmm, this might work for those of us who have custom giant ships though.

Yeah I could see it on superhuges like arquitens and up. But I was actually really impressed with the way 1.0 epic handled corvettes and combat transports. I'm amazed at how many people think a tie crashing into a cr90 should result in a tie bouncing off to a slightly more advantageous position. That's just comical.

Player drops ps1 ships with disposable health in front of enemy Corvette? Trade health for action free reposition after all the init 6 boys. It would further invalidate ever bringing anything that relies on repositioning to epic.

4 minutes ago, Dabirdisdaword said:

Yeah I could see it on superhuges like arquitens and up. But I was actually really impressed with the way 1.0 epic handled corvettes and combat transports. I'm amazed at how many people think a tie crashing into a cr90 should result in a tie bouncing off to a slightly more advantageous position. That's just comical.

I agree, I don't care for the displacement idea for x-wing. I figured it would be fraught with imprecision and wordy FAQs etc. It didn't even occur to me that it could and would be totally abused strategically. I'm sure it works fine for Armada though given the far more flexible maneuverability of squads.

7 minutes ago, Bullox said:

I agree, I don't care for the displacement idea for x-wing. I figured it would be fraught with imprecision and wordy FAQs etc. It didn't even occur to me that it could and would be totally abused strategically. I'm sure it works fine for Armada though given the far more flexible maneuverability of squads.

It works in armada because fighter facing is removed. It's pure distance measurement, greasing an angle isnt worth the effort.

This game is not that lol.