1 hour ago, Jadotch said:

The conversion kits are a good deal, for the first one. I need 3 for Rebels, 3 for Imperials and 2 for scum...

...no, no you don't. That's OCD talking. Unless you plan on fielding all of your ships in every concievable configuation at exactly the same time (hint: that never happens), you "need" one for each faction, tops. And that's only if you're going to be playing in official events. For casual play, do whatever you want.

1 hour ago, Jadotch said:

The conversion kits are a good deal, for the first one. I need 3 for Rebels, 3 for Imperials and 2 for scum. For the Rebels, the first kit, 90% of it is usable for me. The second kit, only about 30% will be. The 3rd, only 5% will be. That is a ton of wasted cardboard. (If I do upgrade, I am going to make a youtube video of burning all the extra cardboard.)

If you only need 5% of the 3rd one, then you don't need the 3rd one. Trade away leftovers from your other kits for what you need of the last one, or buy the last bit on eBay or something similar. I'm sure there will be plenty of singles on sale on eBay for WAY less than the cost of buying a 3rd kit.

Why on earth would you burn the extra when you can trade or sell it? Sure there might be a few things nobody will want (I don't know anybody that bought Sabine's TIE 3x, for example), but other chunks of it will be in demand. Recoup some of your costs!

Moreover, there are VERY few scenarios in which you'd be fielding so many of something that you'd need all the dials and stuff at once. To say you NEED to be able to field 9 A wings at once (or whatever it is you "need" that 3rd one for) is hyperbole.

7 minutes ago, BigBadAndy said:

Respectfully, that is, in fact what was said. A conversion kit, by itself does absolutely nothing. It is only a “fix” when it is accompanied by the 2.0 core set. So even at its rosiest it’s a $90 fix. And of course the $4o “fix” in Saw’s renegades also doesn’t “break” the entire rest of your collection. None of the aces packs suddenly made your existing cards illegal to use at organized events. So the statement is utter BS.

And arguing over this is pointless because the real issue is not $40 or $90 or $200 - it’s what we get in value for the money.

You quoted the actual statement! Right here:

"Last  week: 40 buck for a x-wing fix? Shut up and take my mo  ney FFG!

 This week: 50 bucks  to  fix an  ent  ire fa  ction? FFG you greedy *****!!! "

If you want to say that doesn't mean exactly what was said and instead means that $50 converts the entire game for all 3 (5 now) factions then you're willfully misreading what was said, so there really isn't anything to discuss.

And the fix packs didn't suddenly make cards illegal, just completely useless in organized events. If you don't spend $40 your X-Wings are all 2 points more expensive and can't barrel roll, boost, or Tallon roll. If you say that isn't invalidating them in an organized event you're kidding yourself.

15 minutes ago, Ubul said:

Apparently you think that a symptomatic treatment would be the best solution. The game designers disagree with you, and they chose therapy. You have the right to complain of course, but you will achieve nothing. 2.0 is happening, whether you like it or not, so you might as well let it go. You can keep playing 1E at your kitchen table, and I am pretty sure that there will be fan made conversion of 2E ships to 1E, so your progress will not stop.

No, the game designer euthanized my old dog and got me a puppy.

Then y'all said "stop *******, you've got the collar, bowls, poop scooper, etc. and you're still a dog owner."

13 minutes ago, AlexW said:

So, essentially, you are wanting version 1.5 and not really 2.0, which is fine, but I can't imagine the complexity of the balance issues that would create as they try to balance the old with the new.

I guess what would have preferred to see was a full on design of 2.0 to make it way better, but you could add back 1.0 if you really wanted.

13 minutes ago, mdl0114 said:

The problem is, if the goal (as stated) of 2e is to curtail and change a lot of things that are baked into 1e (passive mods, hyper-defensive stacking, perfect knowledge bombing, unavoidable action bombs, 1 shot munitions, turrets, dial creep, new action accretion, new design space not thought of when V1 started like force and charge tokens) and bring the game back towards it's original dials and maneuver basics the two games can't be played side by side. If they want to make all turrets mobile arcs, a thing that is awesome and that if they'd thought of it yet would probably have done from the beginning, you can't have old Han and new Han playing the same game. Or old Palpatine, or Miranda/Low/Fenn combo wing, or some players with small base ARCs and others with medium base ARCs, or large base and medium base Firesprays. That sort of kludged together with duct tape and baling wire system would be a disaster. Also, if that is something you would rather do you can do that yourself at home. Print out the point costs for the new stuff you buy, heck write it on the cards if you feel like it, and mix and match any new stuff that comes out into your old stuff. If a resistance A-Wing comes out and you want to play it in 1e multiply pilot skills by 1.5, reduce point costs by half, and shove it into 1e if you aren't concerned with play balance or playing anything in an OP event or tournament. The old and new stuff can coexist in the way you've described on a battlefield just fine if you want to make it work for a home game but it's a horrible way to try and make a new edition with major changes the way 2e is shaping up.

Eh, I think they could have been a little more compatible without ruining the effect of 2.0.

OTOH, as has been stated, it's water under the bridge.

Listen, as a veterinarian I spend all day listening to ***** about problems they do want to spend money to solve.

Today, it's my turn.

10 minutes ago, direweasel said:

If you only need 5% of the 3rd one, then you don't need the 3rd one. Trade away leftovers from your other kits for what you need of the last one, or buy the last bit on eBay or something similar. I'm sure there will be plenty of singles on sale on eBay for WAY less than the cost of buying a 3rd kit.

Why on earth would you burn the extra when you can trade or sell it? Sure there might be a few things nobody will want (I don't know anybody that bought Sabine's TIE 3x, for example), but other chunks of it will be in demand. Recoup some of your costs!

Moreover, there are VERY few scenarios in which you'd be fielding so many of something that you'd need all the dials and stuff at once. To say you NEED to be able to field 9 A wings at once (or whatever it is you "need" that 3rd one for) is hyperbole.

X-Wing and TIEs will be extremely hard to come by.

It is not that difficult to field 6 X-Wings in an Epic match.

To answer @Darth Meanie , the difference is the banning of the Jumpmaster removed a bought product from play. The 2nd edition doesn't stop 1st edition from being played. You say that you only play on your kitchen table. There is absolutely nothing preventing you from continuing aside from your own misgivings. You complain that you won't have access to the Resistance A-Wing, yet don't seem willing to look into how to adapt it into 1st edition. You yourselves mentioned that you don't "give a rats @$$ about what is sanctioned", so why should this pose a problem? I've heard you say that 1st and 2nd edition are incompatible, but from where I am standing, you could make any new 2nd edition ship playable in 1st with some creative thinking.

1 minute ago, Jadotch said:

It is not that difficult to field 6 X-Wings in an Epic match.

In which case you still only need the new Core and the Empire kit. That's 6 TIES already.

4 minutes ago, mdl0114 said:

You quoted the actual statement! Right here:

"Last  week: 40 buck for a x-wing fix? Shut up and take my mo  ney FFG!

 This week: 50 bucks  to  fix an  ent  ire fa  ction? FFG you greedy *****!!! "

If you want to say that doesn't mean exactly what was said and instead means that $50 converts the entire game for all 3 (5 now) factions then you're willfully misreading what was said, so there really isn't anything to discuss.

And the fix packs didn't suddenly make cards illegal, just completely useless in organized events. If you don't spend $40 your X-Wings are all 2 points more expensive and can't barrel roll, boost, or Tallon roll. If you say that isn't invalidating them in an organized event you're kidding yourself.

I’m sorry but there is simply no way to say there is a $50 fix for a whole faction. It’s a minimum $90. I don’t know what you’re reading, but it’s all very plainly laid out in the original post. A $50 conversion kit does nothing. You can’t call it a fix.

As far as making things useless I think you are wrong. I went to my first ever tournament in February of this year and won a game with a TIE interceptor PTL list. People were looking at me like “wtf is he doing?” Just because you aren’t going to win worlds with something doesn’t make it useless. And there is a HUGE difference between an upgrade like 2.0 that literally makes every single ship and card you own actually illegal to use in tournament play unless you spend $90 and an expansion pack which includes a card that emphasizes one particular strategy or reduces the effectiveness of many lists.

Look, I’m in here pointing out that people’s points of view are all valid and there’s no point arguing about them. But pretending there is some functional equivalency between Saw’s renegades and X-wing 2.0 is not a point of view. It’s just wrong. And stating/implying/pretending that the cost of 2.0 is $50 is absurd. Sorry

Legitimately nobody should ever need more than 2 of a conversion kit UNLESS you are talking epic, which currently doesnt even have rules in 2.0 anyway so you got some time to regain some cash

Truth it might be possible to run 5 of a ship which would be an odd number for the kits. Just....dont? 5 of the same ship lists tend to fall under the "this feels like this shouldnt be a valid option..." sort of lists like teh trip JM5K did though probably not to that degree of insanity.

2 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

buying into x-wing 2.0 initially is going to cost less than the 3 jumpmasters I bought

the amount of work FFG put into 2.0 relative to hypothetically banning the jump is literally infinetly more work

This is the important point. The effort FFG will have put in to improve the game, not just for now but for the several years, compared to the cost of the conversion kits represents phenomenal value to the customer.

4 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

I guess what would have preferred to see was a full on design of 2.0 to make it way better, but you could add back 1.0 if you really wanted.

Thank makes sense, but I just don't see a way to make 2.0 "way better" if you're still including 99% of 1st.

11 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

No, the game designer euthanized my old dog and got me a puppy.

Then y'all said "stop *******, you've got the collar, bowls, poop scooper, etc. and you're still a dog owner."

They did not kill your old dog, it is still alive, just now growing any bigger from now. For the 100th times: you can still play 1E on your kitchen table. You can deny facts as long as you want, they still remain facts.

3 minutes ago, AlexW said:

Thank makes sense, but I just don't see a way to make 2.0 "way better" if you're still including 99% of 1st.

I mean, including 99% of 1st is WHY its way better

1.0 had around 1% of its content relevant on the tabletop, if even that

They're culling abusive mechanics that take the player out of the equation in favor of card combos and mathematical efficiency

1 minute ago, Darth Meanie said:

Eh, I think they could have been a little more compatible without ruining the effect of 2.0.

OTOH, as has been stated, it's water under the bridge.

Listen, as a veterinarian I spend all day listening to ***** about problems they do want to spend money to solve.

Today, it's my turn.

1

The non-exhaustive list of changes so far is rather enormous, I can't think of a better way than 2e to fix it and no way that we could have seen the number of changes 2e had while continuing with 1e myself. Just too much creaky design and patched together add-ons and unforeseen additions that came off poorly in 1e, ground up redesign even if painful I think is necessary.

But hey, if it's about catharsis and ******* for the sake of ******* that's fine, it's the internet after all and I'm pretty sure that's either a major reason for the forums' existence or at least a super prevalent unintended consequence. And also, in the end, not all changes are for all people. I wouldn't knee-jerk swear off of 2e forever but every game with edition changes have people who get off the ride at some point and decide their current edition is the best one, gotta do what works best for you.

12 minutes ago, Jadotch said:

X-Wing and TIEs will be extremely hard to come by.

It is not that difficult to field 6 X-Wings in an Epic match.

Epic isn't converting yet, so that's not relevant. Continue to play Epic in 1st Ed until you see their plan to convert that. And TIE Fighters are keeping the same dials, so you don't need new dials for all of them anyway.

As for X Wings, yes, they will be tougher to get, but the Core set will have one, and Saw's will have one. So that plus 2 kits will get you to the 6 you are discussing.

5 minutes ago, BigBadAndy said:

Look, I’m in here pointing out that people’s points of view are all valid and there’s no point arguing about them. But pretending there is some functional equivalency between Saw’s renegades and X-wing 2.0 is not a point of view. It’s just wrong. And stating/implying/pretending that the cost of 2.0 is $50 is absurd. Sorry

BS. There is absolutely a comparison to be made between the cost of a new edition and the parade of fix packs we've had over the years attempting to make stuff in this one playable. If you don't see any comparison between the Imperial Raider, Saw's Renegades, guns for hire, or Imperial Veterans and the conversion kits you're being willfully ignorant.

i'd have to agree with fickle, VERY little 1E content has ever been relevant even in casual.

Almost every pack about half the cards were useless or extremely situational with 1 card that was either a fix so everyone wanted it, or it trumped another card so everyone wanted it (thus removing the other card from the game effectively).

How many ships have more than 1 pilot thats ever used? Except for thematics, TIE/ln's, Gunboats, or JM5K i cant think of any ship that had multiple pilots being used commonly.
TIE/Adv? Vader. Only Vader.
TAP? Inquis
Xwing? Biggs
T70? Poe
Awing? Greensquad
Falcon? Rey
Silencer? Kylo

Thats just to name a few. Sure other pilots have been useful, but never at the same time.

Heck even upgrades. Except for ship-specific stuff i find i use the same ~10 upgrade for every single list lol

8 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

N  o  ,  the game designer euthanized my old dog and got  m  e a puppy.

 Then y  'all  said "s  top *******, you've got the collar, bowls, po  o   p s  coop  er, etc. and y  o  u're s  till  a dog   owner."

ROFL. Quoted for laugh factor and truth.

Listen, people need to stop thinking it’s their job to somehow solve the problem of someone who is upset and doesn’t want to upgrade. Stop telling people what to think and how to feel. It’s enraging. If I read one more post telling someone that they dont need more than one conversion kit I’m going to scream. There’s not one single discussion on a miniatures board anywhere for any game that addresses needs. It’s all about wants. People want to have all the swag that goes with all their ships. All of the 1.0 ships come with a full compliment of bases, tokens, pilot cards, and dials to put them in a game. You aren’t helping by telling people they are wrong to want to convert their full collection.

9 minutes ago, BigBadAndy said:

ROFL. Quoted for laugh factor and truth.

Listen, people need to stop thinking it’s their job to somehow solve the problem of someone who is upset and doesn’t want to upgrade. Stop telling people what to think and how to feel. It’s enraging. If I read one more post telling someone that they dont need more than one conversion kit I’m going to scream. There’s not one single discussion on a miniatures board anywhere for any game that addresses needs. It’s all about wants. People want to have all the swag that goes with all their ships. All of the 1.0 ships come with a full compliment of bases, tokens, pilot cards, and dials to put them in a game. You aren’t helping by telling people they are wrong to want to convert their full collection.

Well, I don't mean to sound insensitive, but I'm not sure what you're looking for then. If you post on a forum, one of three things are going to happen:

1 - you will have someone agree with you.

2 - you will have someone disagree with you.

3 - you will be ignored.

The people who disagree with you can either be insensitive jackasses about it, and say "you suck!" or "you're wrong!", or they can try to explain why they feel differently than you about it. Hopefully when they do that they will do so tactfully and politely, and provide some evidence to back up that assertion. So, by trying to tell people the manner in which they disagree with you is wrong, or unwelcome, it begs the question of why you posted it in the first place? If it's just to get affirmation, then I'm not sure what to tell you, except to quote the Princess Bride "Get used to disappointment".

I can't speak for the rest of the people here, but I can say that my own motivation for posting here has been to try to make people try to think more creatively about how to get what they want to get to bring their collection along into 2nd ed. I think a lot of people are just doing very simple math (I have 7 A Wings, each kit comes with 2, I need 3 kits. That sucks!). I'm trying to point out that people can buy 2 and trade somebody one of their extra Y Wing or ARC tokens or whatever they have fewer of, to somebody who has leftover A Wing tokens, and everybody is happy. I'm also pointing out that eBay and similar sites will sell singles, so if you're just missing one or two ships, that might be MUCH more cost effective than buying a whole additional kit.

That's my motivation. It's not to demean, or belittle, or devalue anyone's opinion. I'm legitimately trying to help. I can only assume others are as well.

Course there's no point to telling someone how to feel

But if you're bringing up false parralels into the public limelight, there's no reason to expect you won't be corrected

Plus the idea that xwing 2.0 should have been done differently because you expect to be catered to to such a degree...eh, it won't sit right with a lot of people

The most I think anyone can reasonably ask for is cheaper conversion kits and/or included core set templates + deck to ease the financial burden of transition.

Anything else, such as expecting designers (and, by extension, players) to continue shackling themselves to the immovably rigid 1.0 design space, is being more than a little silly imo

17 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

I mean, including 99% of 1st is WHY its way better

1.0 had around 1% of its content relevant on the tabletop, if even that

They're culling abusive mechanics that take the player out of the equation in favor of card combos and mathematical efficiency

Yeah, I agree with you but I was referring to the way that Darth Meanie was trying to make it compatible with first, which basically seemed to allow most of those mechanics/ and upgrade cards to still be in play.

3 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

I mean, including 99% of 1st is WHY its way better

1.0 had around 1% of its content relevant on the tabletop , if even that

"for tournament play" is always left out. 1.0 was pretty good and getting better for everyone else.

8 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

To answer @Darth Meanie , the difference is the banning of the Jumpmaster removed a bought product from play. The 2nd edition doesn't stop 1st edition from being played. You say that you only play on your kitchen table. There is absolutely nothing preventing you from continuing aside from your own misgivings. You complain that you won't have access to the Resistance A-Wing, yet don't seem willing to look into how to adapt it into 1st edition. You yourselves mentioned that you don't "give a rats @$$ about what is sanctioned", so why should this prose a problem? I've heard you say that 1st and 2nd edition are incompatible, but from where I am standing, you could make any new 2nd edition ship playable in 1st with some creative thinking.

A. You are absolutely correct. Some thoughts I have muddled over:

1. Init 1-6 = PS 1, 3, 4, 6, 7, 9.

2. Divide 2e point costs by 2.

3. Allow both dials to be used. I can have 2 "fancy A-Wings" and 6 "well, these have seen some wear-and-tear" ones.

4. Take the ace abilities on new pilots and make a Strange Eon card.

5. Use the app to build my lists but then use my old dials anyways.

6. Hope that some 3rd party listbuilder is as disgruntled as I am and does a blended app.

B. It's pretty amazing how many ideas that have been talked about on these boards are incorporated into 2.0. Thus, I think that disgruntled players have a right (and maybe even a duty) to talk about their objections and concerns on these boards in full view of the powers that be.

1 minute ago, Darth Meanie said:

"for tournament play" is always left out. 1.0 was pretty good and getting better for everyone else.

Yeah, no

I don't play competitive. I've never traveled to regionals and beyond and never had much interest in doing so

But I play in NYC where there is very rarely the real estate or time to baloon into epic games, so we stick to 100

And if I try to run most anything against a super turret, I'm ******

Now what am I supposed to do? Tell my opponent not to fly super turrets? Not to fly the iconic falcon, or the signature ship from the popular REBELs show or even the obscure but BADASS looking decimator?

Best I could do is complain impotently on the forums and play the miniscule portion of my collection that gave me a fighting chance

Same was true of everyone locally, and we lost a lot of folks to the stagnating nature of 1.0 that never seemed to improve

So thank the force for 2.0. we can only hope it proves to be the breath of fresh air this game so desperately needs

3 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

"for tournament play" is always left out. 1.0 was pretty good and getting better for everyone else.

Going to have to disagree with you here.

I'm a casual player only, same as my group, and we were getting pretty fatigued with 1.0.

General blanket statements don't work here. For either side of this argument. I am excited for 2.0 and I get that you are not.

You are of course allowed to feel the way you do and I am not going to try and change your opinion. Life is too short to spend your life arguing after all. But please don't assume was getting better for all casual players equally.

2 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

"for tournament play" is always left out. 1.0 was pretty good and getting better for everyone else.

A. You are absolutely correct. Some thoughts I have muddled over:

1. Init 1-6 = PS 1, 3, 4, 6, 7, 9.

2. Divide 2e point costs by 2.

3. Allow both dials to be used. I can have 2 "fancy A-Wings" and 6 "well, these have seen some wear-and-tear" ones.

4. Take the ace abilities on new pilots and make a Strange Eon card.

5. Use the app to build my lists but then use my old dials anyways.

6. Hope that some 3rd party listbuilder is as disgruntled as I am and does a blended app.

B. It's pretty amazing how many ideas that have been talked about on these boards are incorporated into 2.0. Thus, I think that disgruntled players have a right (and maybe even a duty) to talk about their objections and concerns on these boards in full view of the powers that be.

For B, fair, but like with everything on this forum, it’s open for counter points. And when people put up proposterous thesises (like “you have to have a smart phone to play” or saying that a 2ed is the same as a ban), you are very likely to get counter points.