IMHO, if you bought 3 jumpmasters, you deserve whatever is coming for you.


And there is a bit of a difference between a ship/model being banned, and some of your cards being banned. You are building a nice strawman there.

5 minutes ago, Cartchan said:

My point was: if you don't play in competition, v2 does not impact you if you don't want to. What is your point ?

Consider that there won't be any more extension for X-wing. Does it prevent you to play ? No. It is not like if Blizzard shut down the WoW servers.

My point is that it does impact me. V2 kills all progress to the game if I don't convert.

1 hour ago, Darth Meanie said:

Just over a year ago, when trip jumps were ruining the game, I suggested banning them for the greater good of the game:

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/246169-x-wings-first-ban/

At that time, most people were outraged at the idea, mostly for the idea that they had invested $30 per expac and FFG was going to invalidate their hard earned gaming dollars.

Screw me out of $100 for 3 JM5Ks??? Outrage!!

Suddenly, it will cost $100 in conversion kits to play those 3 Jumps.

those 3 jumpmaster 5ks and like 80 other ships too.

We get it. you don't like the premise of buying into 2.o mostly due to the size of your collection. so then don't. or wait for the epic conversion to decide and save up till then to soften the blow. Might me a way off so you should have plenty of time. you don't even have to stop playing the current version of epic until then. Sounds like you enjoy it. so go play it and have fun.

in the mean time, please stop clogging up the forum with so many of these lame repetitive threads restating over and over what everyone already knows is your opinion on the matter. Your opinion is not invalid from your point of view. I'm just tired of sifting through it all day to get to the positive 2.0 talk.

15 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

Can't really buy into the new OP if you already own it

We're not worried about you doing it fickle, we're worried about everyone and their grandma doing it.

I have hopes that a dynamic point system means that people will shy away from investing in broken lists (but they'll field them if they already have the ability to). Either way, I would imagine they get a pretty swift response and rebalance on cost.

I'm correct in thinking that upgrade cards may not have a uniform cost? Synergistic upgrade X for Pilot Y may cost 10 pts, but 6 pts for everyone else if need be? They have that ability with this new system right?

Just now, Darth Meanie said:

My point is that it does impact me. V2 kills all progress to the game if I don't convert.

But you are not entitled to progress.

You paid for some ships not for unlimited support.

Just now, Glucose98 said:

I'm correct in thinking that upgrade cards may not have a uniform cost? Synergistic upgrade X for Pilot Y may cost 10 pts, but 6 pts for everyone else if need be? They have that ability with this new system right?

I believe that is the main point behind the app, especially in regards to costing upgrades according to initiative ( especially ordnance and after-burners

4 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

My point is that it does impact me. V2 kills all progress to the game if I don't convert.

So does FFG declaring X-Wing 1.0 "complete." That's what happened to the LCG and it was in a much better state than 1.0 X-Wing.

Sorry Darth, you're clearly in the minority here. For me version 2.0 saved the game, and I'm a casual player.

1 hour ago, Darth Meanie said:

Just over a year ago, when trip jumps were ruining the game, I suggested banning them for the greater good of the game:

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/246169-x-wings-first-ban/

At that time, most people were outraged at the idea, mostly for the idea that they had invested $30 per expac and FFG was going to invalidate their hard earned gaming dollars.

Screw me out of $100 for 3 JM5Ks??? Outrage!!

Suddenly, it will cost $100 in conversion kits to play those 3 Jumps.

This time: Hey, I have had to buy warhammer 8 times. It's the cost of progress. That's what the gaming industry does. It's a small price to pay to make the game better.

Furthermore, Poons, TLT, VI, etc. are "not included in 2.0." Sounds like they got the ban hammer to me. Yet within the context of 1.0 invalidating game content was incomprehensible.

TL/DR:

2017: If FFG **** me out of $100 by banning things to make the game better I going to have serious problems with it.

2018: FFG just banned everything and it's going to cost me $100 (or more) to start over. Where do I sign up?

I feel you, I am in the same boat as you.

I can guarantee most of my primary gaming group will not upgrade. So even if I do, I doubt 2.0 will ever see much play. I am more of a casual player who every now and then dabbles in tournaments.

I have finally (literally last night my CR90 arrived, it was lost in the mail for over a month) so I finally have what I feel is a complete collection. And .... it was wiped that out with one broad stroke. I have been buying 2 or 3 ships a month for the past 3 and a half (almost 4) years to finally catch up. It is very much a slap in the face.

The conversion kits are a good deal, for the first one. I need 3 for Rebels, 3 for Imperials and 2 for scum. For the Rebels, the first kit, 90% of it is usable for me. The second kit, only about 30% will be. The 3rd, only 5% will be. That is a ton of wasted cardboard. (If I do upgrade, I am going to make a youtube video of burning all the extra cardboard.)

The more I think about it, the more I hate the idea of the APP. (Why even have physical cards at that point? Just make a video game.)

I don't like the full size cards, it is more wasted space. (I live in a relatively small place, the less stuff the better.)

And lastly, this update seems to be aimed at tournament players, not casual. They are the most vocal group, but they are the minority of players.

All that being said, some of the changes look pretty cool and well needed. I understand why FFG did what they did. I am a fence sitter (even though it could have been handled better, but really what could they have done better other than the selection in the upgrade kits?), and I definitely feel where you are coming from. X-Wing is a hobby for me which I have invest money, and more importantly time, and I may not be able to follow it to the 2.0 version. It is disappointing and frustrating to say the least.

I don't understand why people are getting upset if others don't like the new version. Or who aren't even negative about it, but cautious like myself. So what ... let us vent ...

It almost feels I am offending their religion.

This idea that 2.0 caters to the competitive because it improves the core gameplay elements, cuts down on silly/broken mechanics, streamlines presentation, and levels the playing field for all ships is bizarre

Especially considering a new edition is a great time to make a marked effort to attract new players

ESPECIALLY now that you won't need to understand what each of nym's 8 upgrade cards do

Or why the Xwing, a CORE SET ship, needs four different upgrade cards scattered throughout various expansions

1 minute ago, Jadotch said:

I can guarantee most of my primary gaming group will not upgrade.

I finally have what I feel is a complete collect. And .... it was wiped that out with one broad stroke.

Did someone break into your house and burn them ?

You can still play with your friends.

1 hour ago, Duskwalker said:

Last  week: 40 buck for a x-wing fix? Shut up and take my mo  ney FFG!

 This week: 50 bucks  to  fix an  ent  ire fa  ction? FFG you greedy *****!!!   

Setting aside for a moment that I think ascribing something you read on the internet to huge groups of people who didn’t actually say them is a mistake and part of the “echo chamber” culture that everyone hates, people really need to stop saying the buy in cost for 2.0 is $50. That’s absolutely impossible. The minimum MSRP to make the jump is $40 for the core and $50 for a conversion kit - so $90. More realistically, a three faction collector is going to be onnthe hook for at least $190 MSRP. So whether you think it’s a good investment or not is up to you, but the suggestion that it’s $50 is blatantly untrue and detracts from any real discussion.

7 minutes ago, Cartchan said:

Did someone break into your house and burn them ?

You can still play with your friends.

Well that is kind of my point. It is less motivation for me to update to 2.0. It is less and less "worth it."

I am not going to quit playing, I am going to quit buying and quit collecting. (Part of the fun was collecting.)

1 hour ago, Darth Meanie said:

Just over a year ago, when trip jumps were ruining the game, I suggested banning them for the greater good of the game:

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/246169-x-wings-first-ban/

At that time, most people were outraged at the idea, mostly for the idea that they had invested $30 per expac and FFG was going to invalidate their hard earned gaming dollars.

Screw me out of $100 for 3 JM5Ks??? Outrage!!

Suddenly, it will cost $100 in conversion kits to play those 3 Jumps.

This time: Hey, I have had to buy warhammer 8 times. It's the cost of progress. That's what the gaming industry does. It's a small price to pay to make the game better.

Furthermore, Poons, TLT, VI, etc. are "not included in 2.0." Sounds like they got the ban hammer to me. Yet within the context of 1.0 invalidating game content was incomprehensible.

TL/DR:

2017: If FFG **** me out of $100 by banning things to make the game better I going to have serious problems with it.

2018: FFG just banned everything and it's going to cost me $100 (or more) to start over. Where do I sign up?

What is your alternative? How much do you think it should cost to upgrade a full collection? IMO, most of the outrage stems from a perspective that people want to upgrade massive collections for a low cost and all at once.

As it stands, many people paid around or over $340 to "upgrade" just four ships the Scyk, Advanced, Xwing (round 1), and Tie. That doesn't include all the ace type expansions. I personally think that Saw's Renegades pack is arguably a worse "cash grab" than an upgrade kit, at least until it was noted that it comes with 2.0 cards, but I still think re-releasing the Uwing after a year in another pack is frankly, ridiculous.

So, here is what happened with the dark glasses on:
* X-wing 1.0 got discontinued. There will be no new ships for my favorite game. There will not be any tournaments for my favorite game.
* If you want to play a living X-wing game, you need to spend quite a bit of $$$ to go 2.0. There is no easy way for me to even get one favorite squad up and play with that.

With the non-dark glasses on:
* They fixed (probably) a lot of the problems that the game had and made a somewhat clear statement about what the game should be about and they made all the cards accessable for a somewhat reasonable pile of $$$.

I understand and respects both views. I feel both happy and a Little bit cheated. Yesterday (very relative yesterday) I was the owner of a pretty strong fleet in an Active game. Now I own a nice pile of plastic ships that needs investments to be tournament worthy. But I also feel and hope that the new version will be a lot more fun then the comboristic alpha strike/overmanuverable regen/wierd torpedo/bombing game that we had Before.

For some, this is easy, one way or the other. For some its hard. Bashing the other side is pretty futile, but hey, give me a beer and some cachews and I will enjoy it.

34 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

My point is that it does impact me. V2 kills all progress to the game if I don't convert.

How is 2nd Ed. different than killing the game outright?

58 minutes ago, HolySorcerer said:

Sorry Darth, you're clearly in the minority here. For me version 2.0 saved the game, and I'm a casual player.

I doesn't mean I don't have a right to say what I'm thinking. And given that I hated 100/6, I've always been in the minority.

49 minutes ago, Jadotch said:

Well that is kind of my point. It is less motivation for me to update to 2.0. It is less and less "worth it."

I am not going to quit playing, I am going to quit buying and quit collecting. (Part of the fun was collecting.)

This.

47 minutes ago, AlexW said:

What is your alternative?

Why, I'm glad you asked.

2.0 should have been fully compatible with 1.0.

Keep the Initiative spread 1-9. Reducing it to 1-6 really isn't that meaningful for how the game is played.

Bump the point spread to 200. I can multiple old cards by 2.

Keep printing the points and upgrade slots on the cards. The devs know what they are going to be at release. Tournament players understand these are first-pass only.

Change the appearance of 2.0 components as they have been. New dials, new cards, etc.

Create the new damage deck and sell it separately (like they always have done for dice, of all the useless components to put in a separate blister).

Add the 2 factions.

Remove the Firespray from the Imps.

Ban Poons, VI, TLT, etc.

Add in all the special abilities, base changes, medium stands, etc. etc. etc.

Players who want the best of the best will buy the conversion kits to upgrade immediately.

I can only assume that all ships will eventually see a 2.0 packaging release. At that point, a player can:

A. Continue to play old PS 8 Luke with a cruddy T-65 dial

or

B. Upgrade to new PS 8 Luke with Force abilities and a better dial.

A. Continue to play the ARC 170 on a small base with the old dial

or

B. Upgrade to the new ARC 170 on a medium base and a new dial.

C. The new Resistance A-Wing would then have Initiative 1-9, double points, and an upgrade bar to more seamlessly match old materials.

Tournament players are required to use the app (as they are now) and have the correct components (as they always have been).

But casual players could see both sets of gaming materials coexisting in a single battlefield.

Personally I don’t like v1 and quit buying a long time ago. Too much stuff that I didn’t like how it worked and used homebrew rules to even enjoy the game. This will get me buying again and use the pile of plastic that has been gathering dust. I am hopeful of this new direction and see a lot of good things in v2. Will I buy it? Yes as needed to try it out. I may even try a competitive game now because there was no way in v1 I’d sit through a game of those bent and or stupid rules. Will I like it? Too early to tell but it sure will be nice to drop the money of an epic xpac, (again rarely if ever used) and get a whole bucket of empire choices to play some games. It was a happy day for me when they announced this. V1 was dead to me long ago.

btw biggest bonus, I never have to buy scum bull again! Worth every penny.

26 minutes ago, BigBadAndy said:

Setting aside for a moment that I think ascribing something you read on the internet to huge groups of people who didn’t actually say them is a mistake and part of the “echo chamber” culture that everyone hates, people really need to stop saying the buy in cost for 2.0 is $50. That’s absolutely impossible. The minimum MSRP to make the jump is $40 for the core and $50 for a conversion kit - so $90. More realistically, a three faction collector is going to be onnthe hook for at least $190 MSRP. So whether you think it’s a good investment or not is up to you, but the suggestion that it’s $50 is blatantly untrue and detracts from any real discussion.

Except that isn't what was said. The conversion kit or fix pack for 1 faction is $50 while a fix pack for the X-Wing is in a $40 pack, which was what was said. With the core added and both at MSRP it is $90 to buy into 2e with 1 faction. Fixing 1-2 ships with Saw's renegades is $40 from a game that already had a $100 price tag to fix the TIE Advanced, a $90 price tag for 3P0 (before he was in store kits), $60 for the first X-Wing and astromech epic-locked expansion, and a $70 price tag to fix the Scyk. There are also the Ace packs, single upgrade expansions, and either 1 card that players want multiple of per ship pack players don't want multiples of or upgrades that really help 1 ship locked into an unrelated ship.

2 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Why, I'm glad you asked.

2.0 should have been fully compatible with 1.0.

Keep the Initiative spread 1-9. Reducing it to 1-6 really isn't that meaningful for how the game is played.

Bump the point spread to 200. I can multiple old cards by 2.

Keep printing the points and upgrade slots on the cards. The devs know what they are going to be at release. Tournament players understand these are first-pass only.

Change the appearance of 2.0 components as they have been. New dials, new cards, etc.

Add the 2 factions.

Remove the Firespray from the Imps.

Ban Poons, VI, TLT, etc.

Players who want the best of the best will buy the conversion kits to upgrade immediately.

I can only assume that all ships will eventually see a 2.0 packaging release. At that point, a player can:

A. Continue to play old PS 8 Luke with a cruddy T-65 dial

or

B. Upgrade to new PS 8 Luke with Force abilities and a better dial.

But both sets of gaming materials could coexist in a single battlefield.

I understand where you are coming from but this would have been a terrible fudge.

I am a casual player. No interest at all in tournament competitive play. Zero. Honestly the state of the game has caused my enthusiasm to wane recently. Did not buy a single ship from the newest wave and was not interested in the new expacs.

The sentiment has spilled over into my gaming group who often were just too apathetic to get a game going. Too many upgrades to keep track of all with separate cards along with erratas.

You add a second type of ship to the game to put on top of that. No thanks. We had almost entirely switched over to Imperial assault.

2.0 has really given me that sense of excitement back with all of the new things it will be bringing.

50 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

My point is that it does impact me. V2 kills all progress to the game if I don't convert.

V1 and FFG killed all progress to the V1 game, not V2.

13 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

I doesn't mean I don't have a right to say what I'm thinking. And given that I hated 100/6, I've always been in the minority.

This.

Why, I'm glad you asked.

2.0 should have been fully compatible with 1.0.

Apparently you think that a symptomatic treatment would be the best solution. The game designers disagree with you, and they chose therapy. You have the right to complain of course, but you will achieve nothing. 2.0 is happening, whether you like it or not, so you might as well let it go. You can keep playing 1E at your kitchen table, and I am pretty sure that there will be fan made conversion of 2E ships to 1E, so your progress will not stop.

21 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

I doesn't mean I don't have a right to say what I'm thinking. And given that I hated 100/6, I've always been in the minority.

This.

Why, I'm glad you asked.

2.0 should have been fully compatible with 1.0.

Keep the Initiative spread 1-9. Reducing it to 1-6 really isn't that meaningful for how the game is played.

Bump the point spread to 200. I can multiple old cards by 2.

Keep printing the points and upgrade slots on the cards. The devs know what they are going to be at release. Tournament players understand these are first-pass only.

Change the appearance of 2.0 components as they have been. New dials, new cards, etc.

Add the 2 factions.

Remove the Firespray from the Imps.

Ban Poons, VI, TLT, etc.

Players who want the best of the best will buy the conversion kits to upgrade immediately.

I can only assume that all ships will eventually see a 2.0 packaging release. At that point, a player can:

A. Continue to play old PS 8 Luke with a cruddy T-65 dial

or

B. Upgrade to new PS 8 Luke with Force abilities and a better dial.

But both sets of gaming materials could coexist in a single battlefield.

So, essentially, you are wanting version 1.5 and not really 2.0, which is fine, but I can't imagine the complexity of the balance issues that would create as they try to balance the old with the new.

34 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Why, I'm glad you asked.

2.0 should have been fully compatible with 1.0.

Keep the Initiative spread 1-9. Reducing it to 1-6 really isn't that meaningful for how the game is played.

Bump the point spread to 200. I can multiple old cards by 2.

Keep printing the points and upgrade slots on the cards. The devs know what they are going to be at release. Tournament players understand these are first-pass only.

Change the appearance of 2.0 components as they have been. New dials, new cards, etc.

Add the 2 factions.

Remove the Firespray from the Imps.

Ban Poons, VI, TLT, etc.

Players who want the best of the best will buy the conversion kits to upgrade immediately.

I can only assume that all ships will eventually see a 2.0 packaging release. At that point, a player can:

A. Continue to play old PS 8 Luke with a cruddy T-65 dial

or

B. Upgrade to new PS 8 Luke with Force abilities and a better dial.

But both sets of gaming materials could coexist in a single battlefield.

2

The problem is, if the goal (as stated) of 2e is to curtail and change a lot of things that are baked into 1e (passive mods, hyper-defensive stacking, perfect knowledge bombing, unavoidable action bombs, 1 shot munitions, turrets, dial creep, new action accretion, new design space not thought of when V1 started like force and charge tokens) and bring the game back towards it's original dials and maneuver basics the two games can't be played side by side. If they want to make all turrets mobile arcs, a thing that is awesome and that if they'd thought of it would probably have done from the beginning, you can't have old Han and new Han playing the same game. Or old Palpatine, or Miranda/Low/Fenn combo wing, or some players with small base ARCs and others with medium base ARCs, or large base and medium base Firesprays. That sort of kludged together with duct tape and baling wire system would be a disaster. Also, if that is something you would rather do you can do that yourself at home. Print out the point costs for the new stuff you buy, heck write it on the cards if you feel like it, and mix and match any new stuff that comes out into your old stuff. If a resistance A-Wing comes out and you want to play it in 1e multiply pilot skills by 1.5, reduce point costs by half, and shove it into 1e if you aren't concerned with play balance or playing anything in an OP event or tournament. The old and new stuff can coexist in the way you've described on a battlefield just fine if you want to make it work for a home game but it's a horrible way to try and make a new edition with major changes the way 2e is shaping up.

20 minutes ago, mdl0114 said:

Except that isn't what was said. The conversion kit or fix pack for 1 faction is $50 while a fix pack for the X-Wing is in a $40 pack, which was what was said. With the core added and both at MSRP it is $90 to buy into 2e with 1 faction. Fixing 1-2 ships with Saw's renegades is $40 from a game that already had a $100 price tag to fix the TIE Advanced, a $90 price tag for 3P0 (before he was in store kits), $60 for the first X-Wing and astromech epic-locked expansion, and a $70 price tag to fix the Scyk. There are also the Ace packs, single upgrade expansions, and either 1 card that players want multiple of per ship pack players don't want multiples of or upgrades that really help 1 ship locked into an unrelated ship.

Respectfully, that is, in fact what was said. A conversion kit, by itself does absolutely nothing. It is only a “fix” when it is accompanied by the 2.0 core set. So even at its rosiest it’s a $90 fix. And of course the $4o “fix” in Saw’s renegades also doesn’t “break” the entire rest of your collection. None of the aces packs suddenly made your existing cards illegal to use at organized events. So the statement is utter BS.

And arguing over this is pointless because the real issue is not $40 or $90 or $200 - it’s what we get in value for the money.