Star Wars worlds weekend is underway. It turns out you are so awesome at Runewars that FFG just awarded you the Runewars worlds prizes and ask you to design a card.
So, given known units, what card would you design? Do you make one for your favored faction? Do you be altruistic and design a buff for something in need?
Everybody thinks their ideas are the best. Let’s hear them.
Edited by Church14
This is much needed to up Waiqars game.
The Lancers needs it to improve their speedbumping. Also it improves theme as they are no longer picky by having to blight at range and only at unengaded units.
The Reanimate archers needs it to be just a little bit better in close combat (like the Heavy crossbow). And thematically they just stab their blighted arrow in the enemy Legolas style.
The Death Knights needs it to be better against Uthuk were they currently just get eaten although they are heavy cavalry. Thematically this represents the horseman Pestilence.
The Reanimates needs it to become the bog they should be. Their regeneration is cool and nice, but they still get smashed by all the 3 threat units currently out there. Thematically, it can't be healthy wrestling with a horde of skeletons with varying degrees of hygiene.
I think the price of 6 is right. Visored helmets adds one defense for 7. Moment of inspiration adds one dice for 5. This one doesn't exhaust, but it takes up a special action, which certainly isn't free, though admittedly it works well for Waiqar, but that is the point! Also note that it fits with the Lancers who already blight using the special action.
1 hour ago, Maktorius said:
This is much needed to up Waiqars game.
The Lancers needs it to improve their speedbumping. Also it improves theme as they are no longer picky by having to blight at range and only at unengaded units.
The Reanimate archers needs it to be just a little bit better in close combat (like the Heavy crossbow). And thematically they just stab their blighted arrow in the enemy Legolas style.
The Death Knights needs it to be better against Uthuk were they currently just get eaten although they are heavy cavalry. Thematically this represents the horseman Pestilence.
The Reanimates needs it to become the bog they should be. Their regeneration is cool and nice, but they still get smashed by all the 3 threat units currently out there. Thematically, it can't be healthy wrestling with a horde of skeletons with varying degrees of hygiene.
I think the price of 6 is right. Visored helmets adds one defense for 7. Moment of inspiration adds one dice for 5. This one doesn't exhaust, but it takes up a special action, which certainly isn't free, though admittedly it works well for Waiqar, but that is the point! Also note that it fits with the Lancers who already blight using the special action.
That’s... remarkably close to what I was thinking. I figured a lot of the same: Knights, Archers, and Reanimates all have a white skill and a training slot. So a skill based training was where I intended to go. I hadn’t worked out any good specifics yet
EDIT: Heraldy would also work
Edited by Church14Being a Waiqar player I'm a little jealous of some of the unique upgrades the other factions get... I want unique upgrades for my Carrion Lancers!
Burrow: Carrion Lancers Only
During deployment, place three burrow tokens in the field of play following the rules for terrain placement. Do not deploy any Carrion Lancers with this upgrade. You may place burrowed Carrion Lancers touching these burrow tokens and facing any direction at the end of the first or second round of play.
Burrow tokens would be roughly the same as overgrowth tokens.
This would probably have to be limited to the solo worm too... A worm-star just popping out of a whole might be too much...
Yeah, I like it! Might be too weak though:
What about as an Artifact? Then we can roll it into an Ardus fix. Something like:
Noxious Blade, Artifact, Waiqar only, 2 points
Skill: If this is your first action this activation, put a blight token on an enemy unit engaged with you, then make a melee attack. Otherwise, put a blight token on an enemy unit engaged with you.
So with it, Ardus can attack at initiative 2, hand out a blight, and armor up or rally, plus it turns on the Lancers' mortal strike ability. That's actually pretty credibly threatening! Reanimates can take it with a Fallen Hero if they like, and Death Knights get access to it (though competing with Obcasium's and Reaping Blade make it a hard sell). I had to add the first action clause to make it good for Ardus without giving other units a double attack. It's a bit awkward, but functional.
Now, let's see what we can do for Rune Golems!
Earth Rune, Equipment, 3 points
Skill: If this is your first action this activation, gain the "Immovable" condition. Gain Protected (stable) until the end of the round.
Immovable: When an enemy contacts you during a charge, cancel their attack and give them 1 stun token. You may cancel any advance, shift, or reform action you would take. Discard this condition if you take an advance, shift, or reform action.
Ok so the Golems' lack of upgrade slots (gosh a unique would be handy) makes this one tough, and once again I've had to include the first action clause. Idea is, Golems are mostly lousy at charging, so they should be able to TAKE a charge well. The Protected is mostly there as a nod to other units taking it, I didn't give it much thought. 2x2 Lancers can take it, but probably never would with their Skill being so late, and it might be too good on 2x1 Scions. In fact it's probably too good overall, and will limit future design space. What about...
Earth Rune, Equipment, 3 points
You may choose to activate at initiative 10 instead of the value on your dial.
Skill: Perform a melee attack, then perform a skill action (limit once per round).
So this one is kinda cool, because it provides an option for activating late, and sometimes that's great! But also it might be too easy to access for its impact, and initiative plays a pretty huge role in giving units their flavour and niche. Anyway, the idea is that if the unit stands still until the very end of the turn, it gets some kind of reward - for Golems, this is attacking AND stunning, though obviously without the benefit of their defense modifier. It could definitely be useful on ranged units, ensuring they get to shoot after your opponent moves. Melee units pretty much get to attack twice, which is probably too good.
This would be so much easier if Golems had a unique slot.
28 minutes ago, QuickWhit said:Being a Waiqar player I'm a little jealous of some of the unique upgrades the other factions get... I want unique upgrades for my Carrion Lancers!
Burrow: Carrion Lancers Only
During deployment, place three burrow tokens in the field of play following the rules for terrain placement. Do not deploy any Carrion Lancers with this upgrade. You may place burrowed Carrion Lancers touching these burrow tokens and facing any direction at the end of the first or second round of play.
Burrow tokens would be roughly the same as overgrowth tokens.
This would probably have to be limited to the solo worm too... A worm-star just popping out of a whole might be too much...
Have the backs of the tokens marked with one 'genuine' burrow, and let it surface whenever you want, and I'm fine with it being more than one worm.
That burrow mechanic is similar to the trap mechanic I was considering. I was thinking you place three trap tokens on the board. The tokens are different on the front and back, so there is only one trap. When an enemy unit overlaps a trap token, you reveal it and they suffer some effect, like Immobilize tokens, for example.
As an alternative, you place the tokens on terrain, rather than out in the open.
This trap idea would probably be a unique for a future elf infantry unit.
22 minutes ago, Bhelliom said:Yeah, I like it! Might be too weak though:
- Archers would almost certainly prefer Combat Ingenuity, and expect more blight from it after even one attack.
- Lancers' skill is on the left dial at initiative 6, so using it in combat is tough. Plus, 6 points for a speedbump... I don't see it.
- It would give Death Knights something interesting to do against opponents with Defense 1, but for their cost they're probably better off focusing on tougher stuff.
- Pretty cool on Reanimates, but between the high cost and competition for the slot, I have trouble seeing it.
What about as an Artifact? Then we can roll it into an Ardus fix. Something like:
Noxious Blade, Artifact, Waiqar only, 2 points
Skill: If this is your first action this activation, put a blight token on an enemy unit engaged with you, then make a melee attack. Otherwise, put a blight token on an enemy unit engaged with you.So with it, Ardus can attack at initiative 2, hand out a blight, and armor up or rally, plus it turns on the Lancers' mortal strike ability. That's actually pretty credibly threatening! Reanimates can take it with a Fallen Hero if they like, and Death Knights get access to it (though competing with Obcasium's and Reaping Blade make it a hard sell). I had to add the first action clause to make it good for Ardus without giving other units a double attack. It's a bit awkward, but functional.
I would argue that making it an artifact has two other problems in addition to what you mention.
Firstly Ardus can already get "free" blight by standing adjacent to RAArchers and taking the Ardus Fury uppgrade (he can dial in the second surge), and with Combat ingenuity he can guarantee two blight.
Secondly, its far from hard to snipe out an Artifact bearer in a RA unit. So that would be even weaker!
6 minutes ago, Budgernaut said:That burrow mechanic is similar to the trap mechanic I was considering. I was thinking you place three trap tokens on the board. The tokens are different on the front and back, so there is only one trap. When an enemy unit overlaps a trap token, you reveal it and they suffer some effect, like Immobilize tokens, for example.
As an alternative, you place the tokens on terrain, rather than out in the open.
This trap idea would probably be a unique for a future elf infantry unit.
Then Waiqar can get giant trapdoor spider units... yeah.
A trap/snare mechanic with faction specific effects depending on who drops the trap would be kinda cool. I imagine something like how bombs work in X-wing. Drop a snare when you reveal your dial.
Dropped by = gets:
Latari = Immobilize
Waqar = Blight
Daqan = every friendly unit within 3 of the trapped unit gets inspiration
Uthuk = panic
or something in that vein.
Edited by flightmaster1012 minutes ago, Maktorius said:I would argue that making it an artifact has two other problems in addition to what you mention.
Firstly Ardus can already get "free" blight by standing adjacent to RAArchers and taking the Ardus Fury uppgrade (he can dial in the second surge), and with Combat ingenuity he can guarantee two blight.
Secondly, its far from hard to snipe out an Artifact bearer in a RA unit. So that would be even weaker!
Being at range 1-3 of Reanimate Archers IS a good way to produce blight, but it's a restriction. This solution lets him attack at 2 AND Rally or increase Defense, and can be combined with Archer blight. Ardus's dial is already fairly poor, and needing to be near friendly units to get his combat ability up to snuff kinda puts the nail in the coffin. With this, he's much more independent, but still rewarded for proximity.
Figure upgrades do have that weakness, you're correct, but the artifact bearers are all 3/2, so it does take a decent bit of fire to bring one down - 6 damage and 2 accuracy on a six point upgrade isn't too bad.
9 minutes ago, Bhelliom said:Being at range 1-3 of Reanimate Archers IS a good way to produce blight, but it's a restriction. This solution lets him attack at 2 AND Rally or increase Defense, and can be combined with Archer blight. Ardus's dial is already fairly poor, and needing to be near friendly units to get his combat ability up to snuff kinda puts the nail in the coffin. With this, he's much more independent, but still rewarded for proximity.
Figure upgrades do have that weakness, you're correct, but the artifact bearers are all 3/2, so it does take a decent bit of fire to bring one down - 6 damage and 2 accuracy on a six point upgrade isn't too bad.
I will concede that it would do the job with the Fallen hero (artifact bearer).
I also agree that Ardus needs more power. But don't you think adding 3 blight (when with Archers with CI) at initiative 2 might be a bit over the top?
I'd want a new siege for the latari. A one tray treant that can move and has a pretty poor attack, maybe one white, but can spawn a tray of driads to fight for him.
The driads would be an infantry unit, have their own dial, be weak, with maybe a blue die and a lethal surge ability. As long as they were still alive the treant would not be able to spawn another tray.
This creates a useful, expendable blocker that keeps in the theme of trees as tarpits. I love the idea of tree infantry, though it might be stepping on gamesworkshop sylvan toes.
I'd like an upgrade to increase the number of driad trays generated, but from a trays per siege unit sales box it might now work.
I think a lot of these concerns will be fixed with Darnati. I've played a few proxy games w/ darnati and it totally changes how effective scions can be.
OK we're DOING IT:
**NOTE** I gave about two seconds' thought to points cost, so they are very much NOT dialed in
Inscribed Runeplate, Equipment, 0 points
Rune Golems only
Add (unique) to this unit's available upgrades.
Gain Steadfast (Fear)
THIS IS THE BEST, THERE'S SO MUCH YOU CAN DO WITH THEIR THEME
Edited by Bhelliom6 minutes ago, flightmaster101 said:I think a lot of these concerns will be fixed with Darnati. I've played a few proxy games w/ darnati and it totally changes how effective scions can be.
I thought Scions was considered a top tier unit (by most)? After all, the current champion ran a bunch of them?
15 minutes ago, Maktorius said:I will concede that it would do the job with the Fallen hero (artifact bearer).
I also agree that Ardus needs more power. But don't you think adding 3 blight (when with Archers with CI) at initiative 2 might be a bit over the top?
I mean, it sounds strong, but... shouldn't he be? We're in a post-Ravos world here, we can cut loose a bit. I maintain that Ancient Technique is a better pick than Ardus' Fury, and the attack from Noxious Blade isn't red so can't benefit from a dialed-in surge. In the right conditions, it lets him lock down a single unit while doing a bit of damage and providing additional utility (mortal strikes, host of crows) which sounds an awful lot like what Hawthorne does!
8 minutes ago, Bhelliom said:OK we're DOING IT:
Inscribed Runeplate, Equipment, 0 points
Rune Golems only
Add (unique) to this unit's available upgrades.
Gain Steadfast (Fear)
- Earthen Wards, Unique, 1 point
Rune Golems only
Gain Protected (natural).- Greyhaven Focus, Unique, 9 points
Rune Golems only, maximum one per army
Add the Greyhaven Focus to the rune pool. (another rune, with 2 unstable on one side and 1 stable on the other)- Strength of Granite, Unique, 3 points
Rune Golems only
While attacking, if your target's dial is revealed, gain Precise (2).- Aftershock, Unique, 1 point
Rune Golems only
When an enemy unit in contact with you receives one or more Stun tokens, choose an enemy unit at range 1-3. That unit receives 1 Stun token.- Tectonic Shift, Unique, 5 points
Rune Golems only
Skill: Choose a friendly unit at range 1-3. That unit performs a 1-speed Shift. If this Shift collides with an enemy unit, it counts as a charge.- Avalanche, Unique, 3 points
Rune Golems only
Gain Impact (unstable).- Stone Bulwark, Unique, 4 points
Rune Golems only
When an enemy unit collides with you as part of a charge, cancel their attack and give them 1 Stun token.- Eternal Stone, Unique, 6 points
Rune Golems only
When you would suffer a wound, you may exhaust this card and gain an immobilize token to cancel that wound.THIS IS THE BEST, THERE'S SO MUCH YOU CAN DO WITH THEIR THEME
I feel like a lot of that could be solved by a new Daqan hero with the army building buff of “all friendly Golem units gain the unique upgrade slot.”
Then have that hero pack come with 4-6 copies each of a 1 point “Gain protected NATURAL” and a 2 point “you may reroll STABLE jumenrnof dice when attacking”
10 minutes ago, Maktorius said:I thought Scions was considered a top tier unit (by most)? After all, the current champion ran a bunch of them?
I consider the Scions to be top tier. I cant stop gushing about them on the podcast. I will add though that Darnati allow you to let them hang back and fling stuns since they don't have to do double duty any longer.
16 minutes ago, Church14 said:I feel like a lot of that could be solved by a new Daqan hero with the army building buff of “all friendly Golem units gain the unique upgrade slot.”
Then have that hero pack come with 4-6 copies each of a 1 point “Gain protected NATURAL” and a 2 point “you may reroll STABLE jumenrnof dice when attacking”
That's a good idea, Church. Could also be done by handing out conditions, like Kethra. I am eagerly anticipating a Geomancer hero, and especially abilities that let Golems charge out of turn (Tectonic Shift was a nod in that direction), but that's getting into the "build a golem army" thing, which isn't what I'm after here.
10 minutes ago, flightmaster101 said:I will add though that Darnati allow you to let them hang back and fling stuns since they don't have to do double duty any longer.
In this use case, what do you feel the Darnati bring that simply more Scions wouldn't?
Edited by Bhelliom6 minutes ago, Bhelliom said:In this us e case, what do you feel the Darnati bring that simply more Scions would n't?
Great question! Tune in Wednesday for a more in depth discussion!
But in short they are a
cheaper
front line unit with a higher end damage (hunter's guile, moi) possibility, that can be made more versatile by the command upgrades. And it's not so much that scions cant do the job (since they currently are serving as the front line units for latari players currently), its that I would rather have them doing a different job.
2 hours ago, Xelto said:Have the backs of the tokens marked with one 'genuine' burrow, and let it surface whenever you want, and I'm fine with it being more than one worm.
Yeah, I think that's fair... but I think I'd rather keep it to single lancers and have the option of popping out of three different places. It would help Waiqar alot to have an option like this after the game has started to develop without giving them too much actual mobility, which is a bit counter to their theme.
2 hours ago, Bhelliom said:What about as an Artifact? Then we can roll it into an Ardus fix. Something like:
On the more realistic side, yes! A really good Waiqar artifact, one that would make Ardus more playable and make me consider taking artifact bearer, would be amazing.
It would have to be pretty cheap though.... We have Obcasiums now, which is arguably one of the better artifacts in the game, and it's not made Ardus more playable (probably because it is better on DKs). Something in the 3 point range that helps him but doesn't become an auto-include on DK's maybe? Or perhaps something more on the support side to encourage the idea of running him just for the Host of Crows benefit?
What about something that allows him to give out surges to friendly units in range 1-3 when they attack? Good for RA's, good for CL's, good for Maro... Would be a very Ardus themed thing to do...
2 hours ago, Maktorius said:I will concede that it would do the job with the Fallen hero (artifact bearer).
I also agree that Ardus needs more power. But don't you think adding 3 blight (when with Archers with CI) at initiative 2 might be a bit over the top?
This. I've gotten Ardus into combat with a big unit with CI archers right behind him and it's nasty. He was laying down 2-3 blight per round and always attacking first. It never got to retaliate.
The problem with this combo is getting his slow butt in place with those archers behind him without one of them dying... I've tried this combo multiple times but only really succeeded on executing with it twice.
3 hours ago, Xelto said:Have the backs of the tokens marked with one 'genuine' burrow, and let it surface whenever you want, and I'm fine with it being more than one worm.
1 hour ago, QuickWhit said:Yeah, I think that's fair... but I think I'd rather keep it to single lancers and have the option of popping out of three different places. It would help Waiqar alot to have an option like this after the game has started to develop without giving them too much actual mobility, which is a bit counter to their theme.
The lumbering undead not having mobility is counter to their theme? Not to mention, worms don't burrow all that fast; there's no reason they should be able to cover the entire battlefield quickly. But more important is the game effects. You're essentially giving these units a starting teleport. With the right setup, that's a free flank attack somewhere on the board, or a significant constraint to your opponent's deployment. Simply being able to redeploy after setup, before units start moving, is enough of an advantage.
If you're absolutely set on having them surface at your choice of location, give them a stun token afterward, and limit the placement area to outside range 1 of your opponent's deployment zone. Both of those fit thematically, and provide a bit of needed balance.
