Hi all, haven't posted here in ages, SW RPG taking over my gaming life.

So, have read the big news with X-Wing. Good, it needed it.

The creation of the official app has big implications for the game, and all other FFG star wars products. It means EAs monopoly on Star Wars digital content is crumbling. Great news.

So. Point of Thread.

Armada in its current state does not need a 2.0. Its far more balanced and playable then what I read about the X-Wing meta.

But it needs, as does all games these days that have a release by wave marketing paradigm, is an ability to implement tweeks. X-Wing 2.0 is going to have that inbuilt with the app. Armada can benefit from it too.

A similar app with fluid points costs and automatically errated cards could be implemented without the need for a new version. It would just need to be communicated to the playerbase well. (Call it Armada 1.5 or something)

Release it along with a wave, and include the information about the app with the wave documentation, the same way new rules are implemented.

Then all competitive play will run off the app endorsed points costs and errata. Casual play can still happen without the app, as points costs are still on the cards, and they are still fairly balanced.

This means that Armada would benefit from the "live" balancing that X-Wing will have, and an endorsed list builder can only be a blessing.

Communicated well to the playerbase? Impossible!

I like the idea though.

I do think an endorsed list builder that is integrated with OP for list submission would be fantastic, although there should be a transition period and a way to submit a list via a browser not just a mobile app.

I have been to a few tournaments now and the one thing that shocked me (being relatively new to miniature gaming) was the number of folks pulling cards and creating lists just before the event and chicken scratching those lists on a piece of paper. Those lists are not checked for validity, especially the total point threshhold. That blew me away. Electronic verification of list validity will come, and for me the sooner the better.

Wouldn’t... would still that be a 2.0 anyway?

just not as an extensive of one?

i mean disconnecting points costs and slots from the cards would extensively be enough if a core rule and component change to make parts of the current game fundamentally irrelevant- creating a 1.0 vs 2.0 disconnect in effect, if not name.

so just call it what it is ?

47 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

Wouldn’t... would still that be a 2.0 anyway?

just not as an extensive of one?

i mean disconnecting points costs and slots from the cards would extensively be enough if a core rule and component change to make parts of the current game fundamentally irrelevant- creating a 1.0 vs 2.0 disconnect in effect, if not name.

so just call it what it is ?

We may be argueing semantics on version control, but I do not think so.

X-Wing 2.0 is a new build for every ship, you can't use 1.0 ship templates, cards and upgrades, they are incompatible.

What I am suggesting is just UPDATING points costs for ships and upgrades for balance. So that the app points cost are the authority over the printed card. Errated wording will also be added to the upgrades, but that should be highlighted when you pick said upgrade (reprints of errated cards do this too, just takes a lot longer). So Armada 1.0 ships are still valid in this model (call it 1.5), there points have just been updated and adjusted.

I am not suggesting ship cards and templates need replacing/updating, as that will incur a much bigger change to the game system that is not required.

I think there is a lot of merit to a flexible point cost (particularly for upgrades).

It could be seasonal - so for 2018/19 season, Advanced Projectors cost 3 points, Sensor Teams 2, etc.

If they fiddled with the costs every few weeks it would get annoying, but once a year shouldn’t cause too many problems.

They could also de- or re-FAQ some things every so often. Undo the Advanced Projectors nerf for a season to see if it makes a return. Eliminate Gunnery Teams for a season. A third suggestion.

Even Commanders - Leia not popular? Drop her to 30 for a bit, etc.

Do it with a supplemental tourney regs doc.

heck, call it “OP seasonal Rules” and update it 6 monthly. Just list things changed - pure errata (no faq clarifications) and boom.

tratung and trialling things in op... long term campaigns and casual games are not effected - and op events can CHOOSE wether to implement it with some official backup ?

at which point - no-one is put out. ?

Brecayse maybe it is semantics of version control - but changing rules is fine... but changing components - to the point that a baseline provided component feature is null - IS a new version.

its just not an extensive set of changes.

1.5, 2.0... it’s unnecessary when there are simpler, easier and quicker ways of doing it, in my opinion.

34 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

Do it with a supplemental tourney regs doc.

heck, call it “OP seasonal Rules” and update it 6 monthly. Just list things changed - pure errata (no faq clarifications) and boom.

tratung and trialling things in op... long term campaigns and casual games are not effected - and op events can CHOOSE wether to implement it with some official backup ?

at which point - no-one is put out. ?

Brecayse maybe it is semantics of version control - but changing rules is fine... but changing components - to the point that a baseline provided component feature is null - IS a new version.

its just not an extensive set of changes.

1.5, 2.0... it’s unnecessary when there are simpler, easier and quicker ways of doing it, in my opinion.

Is it easier though? Erratas are currently out to change wording of an upgrade? yet they don't seem interested in errating points costs of an upgrade. whats the difference.

Currently their system to change points costs on things, in either armada or X-wing, is a nebulous upgrade that takes up a slot and has a negative points value. that has to come with a physical purchase.

Surely a live, interactive doc, in the form of an APP, is much more elegant.

That way you can track changes on what is the current version of a ship/upgrade without having to buy anything new.

11 minutes ago, Funk Fu master said:

Is it easier though? Erratas are currently out to change wording of an upgrade? yet they don't seem interested in errating points costs of an upgrade. whats the difference.

Currently their system to change points costs on things, in either armada or X-wing, is a nebulous upgrade that takes up a slot and has a negative points value. that has to come with a physical purchase.

Surely a live, interactive doc, in the form of an APP, is much more elegant.

That way you can track changes on what is the current version of a ship/upgrade without having to buy anything new.

Changing points values or costs is usually a disaster, this happened in Destiny and that is when I dropped that game cold turkey. I was done. I think there is a lot of merit to what they are trying to do with X-Wing. I could probably live with that although if my favorite list was suddenly invalidated by 2 points I'd be a bit upset.

They could do the same with Armada but doing so without changing the cards would cause my OCD to have the shakes. I'd prefer new cards but $50 conversion kits are a bitter pill to swallow.

As you had stated earlier Armada is well balanced and doesn't need a whole new version. I'd prefer an integrated list builder that connects to the OP system for assured verification of lists for now.

I'd bet that we'll eventually see a similar App feature implemented for FFG's other games, including Armada and Legion. X-wing needed it the most, having the most expansions to address. This also means making this for X-wing was a much larger project than it would be for Armada (and Legion). So, think of the X-wing App as the prototype, and once they have that working they'll adapt it to support their other products.

1 hour ago, Thrindal said:

I could probably live with that although if my favorite list was suddenly invalidated by 2 points I'd be a bit upset.

I hear you on this one. For me, I'd be eager to see such an APP because I'm very interested in seeing points on certain over-costed upgrades come down. I personally don't think there's anything currently that needs a point increase so would be disappointed if anything did receive such a price hike.

3 hours ago, Flengin said:

I hear you on this one. For me, I'd be eager to see such an APP because I'm very interested in seeing points on certain over-costed upgrades come down. I personally don't think there's anything currently that needs a point increase so would be disappointed if anything did receive such a price hike.

APTs

They are essentially so much better and so much more ubiquitously found than all other critical effects essentially.

Also:

it is is easier to present a document with temp changes.

YOU DONT HAVE TO DEVELOP, SUPPORT AND MAINTAIN AN APP. ?

There is a thing called Armada Fleet Designer which has everything you ask for.

I would favour some upgrade cards & titles being changed for cost, as some are clearly a bit overpriced. Some of the core set cards in particular.

Not sure it’s needed for ships themselves as they seem pretty well balanced.

3 hours ago, ISD Avenger said:

I would favour some upgrade cards & titles being changed for cost, as some are clearly a bit overpriced. Some of the core set cards in particular.

Not sure it’s needed for ships themselves as they seem pretty well balanced.

I'd say the Interdictor is a little over costed but not as much as before wave 7.

4 hours ago, Thrindal said:

I'd say the Interdictor is a little over costed but not as much as before wave 7.

I still think Arquitens are overcosted.

4 hours ago, Thrindal said:

I'd say the Interdictor is a little over costed but not as much as before wave 7.

That Brunson, TS and HIEs, on Interdictor, ugh.

Also, the Assault Frigate Mk II-A needs to come down. With the Flotilla rules, I could see both the GR-75s and Gonzatis moving down slightly. Maybe 16/23 and 21/25, respectively.

Let's be honest... an app for Armada wouldn't do much.

The game doesn't suffer from balancing issues and constant erratas like X-Wing, the game suffers from a complete lack of communication and resource investment into Armada from FFG's side. An app would still suffer from that.

At this point printing a PDF is fine and doesn't make me have to check my phone for crap.

It's a pass from me, thanks.