Not sure if I am out yet, but there are two issues that are a sticking point to me:

1.) The ship allotments in the conversion kits don't seem to be all that logical and appear to be designed to force typical collectors to have to buy more than one kit just to have enough components to cover a few types of ships (only 2 sets of components each for the main Rebel ships?) This is especially an issue for people like me who prefer epic and scenario play over the standard "kill all enemy ships" tournament rules (which I find dull and uninteresting).

2.) The cost of the typical blister has gone up by $5. That is a significant increase especially as there doesn't appear to be any reciprocal increase in value. It's just a pure price hike. I am not sure why more people aren't talking about this point. It's a bigger issue to me than the cost of the conversion kits which appear to be fairly priced (while not fairly configured).

3 minutes ago, Otakuon said:

Not sure if I am out yet, but there are two issues that are a sticking point to me:

1.) The ship allotments in the conversion kits don't seem to be all that logical and appear to be designed to force typical collectors to have to buy more than one kit just to have enough components to cover a few types of ships (only 2 sets of components each for the main Rebel ships?) This is especially an issue for people like me who prefer epic and scenario play over the standard "kill all enemy ships" tournament rules (which I find dull and uninteresting).

2.) The cost of the typical blister has gone up by $5. That is a significant increase especially as there doesn't appear to be any reciprocal increase in value. It's just a pure price hike. I am not sure why more people aren't talking about this point. It's a bigger issue to me than the cost of the conversion kits which appear to be fairly priced (while not fairly configured).

In the livestream they stated that quantities of ships in the conversion is in direct relation to how much they think you can field in a standard game. Whatever that means. They are also taking "core set" components into account.

my argument is... 3 X-wings will price similar to 3 A-Wings? wtf?

we also do not know what squad building will look like. no idea aside from Vader is around 85-90 points I think. So who knows...right?

I'm going to only buy one Rebel kit to start and see how it goes.

Pre-ordered one of each kit myself at $40 a pop because I’m a bit of a completionist but I think I’ll just be going all in on Imperials to start. I’ll need however many kits will support the number of mid and high PS Interceptors I can reasonably run, or maybe just buy a new model interceptor if it looks nice. The Y-Wing, movable S-Foil X-Wing, and spinning Fang look like great models.

Well, with the new dynamic point system, that is all going to be fluid. The point "value" of a given ship will be left up to the whims of FFG and the tournament organizers. In some way, that is a good thing, I guess.

24 minutes ago, mdl0114 said:

Welcome to every game with an edition change ever?

Not in my experience.

Magic the Gathering has been around for 25 years, and I could still drop 1st edition Llanowar Elves on the table. About the only thing I couldn't use would be Interrupts because that mechanic is gone; probably 80% of my cards from the 1990s are still playable.

FFG very intentionally made old and new X-Wing utterly incompatible. You can't even homebrew compatibility that easily.

People complained they would be upset if they couldn't use their old materials. And here we have an update the erases the cards, the dials, the damage deck, the sleeve sizes, the stands, the factions, and even certain ships in a faction. I am amazed most people are fine with it.

The old games I can't update are ones where the company went out of business. And if this is the current business model gamers are used to, I'm glad I stayed out of it from 2000 to 2013.

7 hours ago, Wiredin said:

counter argument: if FFG stopped supporting X-Wing as a whole, or FFG lost the Star Wars licence... would you still play in your non-tournament format with all your stuff?

That's one of the reasons I'm not really sure that FFG should do anything different. Many of us are unhappy but FFG has to do what they think is viable long term. Clearly tournament play was broken and that became a focus.

The challenge for some of us though is we'll be watching the new movies, be excited by the ships and know there is content but we really can't participate without more big investments and that's where the rub comes in. The assumption is we'll make the big investment to jump to 2.0 with hope for long term payoff but that payoff may not come. I'm seeing a lot of "wow, play is totally fixed!" and keep thinking, "how do you know?" The demo game I saw seemed to have a lot of the same issues just the pilot names are different.

The jump to 2.0 is clearly an informed decision but requires faith and those of us with big collections are highly skeptical of the big initial ask to move to 2.0. Game play seems more complex with extra symbols on the dials and templates, extra abilities to track, complexity between physical cards and an app, etc. It's a lot on faith and some of us decided this is the time to jump.

Some pieces I really love (Back to Dials had a great take on draft play) but its just too much at too high an initial cost.

Just now, Darth Meanie said:

Not in my experience.

Magic the Gathering has been around for 25 years, and I could still drop 1st edition Llanowar Elves on the table. About the only thing I couldn't use would be Interrupts because that mechanic is gone; probably 80% of my cards from the 1990s are still playable.

FFG very intentionally made old and new X-Wing utterly incompatible. You can't even homebrew compatibility that easily.

People complained they would be upset if they couldn't use their old materials. And here we have an update the erases the cards, the dials, the damage deck, the sleeve sizes, the stands, the factions, and even certain ships in a faction. I am amazed most people are fine with it.

Come on, that’s a ridiculously disingenuous comment. You can use your old MtG cards only in the formats they are legal for, or if they happen to rotate back into standard like the elves just did a week-ish ago from the not-legal for standard they were at before then. Aside from the various formats’ changing lists of banned cards of course.

And guess what, you can use your old models entirely in the new Game, just like you can use a handful of old magic cards in the current standard Game and a larger pool in older formats, except for the 90% of trash cards of course that aren’t fit for kindling. I think it’s fair to say MtG is a terrible example to use as a game where you can use everything you get until the end of time.

1 hour ago, VanderLegion said:

So you need a conversion kit for each faction. Doesn't seem unreasonable to me that people that *have* to have everything will have to pay more than people that are willing to stick to (or start with) one faction.

As pointed out earlier, if the kit had been half the size, it probably woul dhave been more than half the price. And a half-size kit (from what we're getting) probably would not have had 4 tie fighters. It MIGHT have had 2 x-wings still.

And if you don't want 2 full kits, you don't have to buy 2. You can also buy 1 and then get the rest of what you need fromt he secondary market if you don't need a lot.

If kits were half sized, I could buy all three of them and play many diverse squads, just not swarms of the same ships. As it stands, I can only get one, thus invalidating 66% of my collection for a very long period of time.

Sure, it is not exactly half. But $30 would be enough if it had 2 x-wings and 3 tie fighters. It would be cheaper for everyone, while not costing FFG extra.

Secondary market will only benefit people with very odd collections. The majority will drive x-wing prices up by a lot. Feel free to mail me some x-wing dials anyways.

20 minutes ago, mdl0114 said:

I think it’s fair to say MtG is a terrible example to use as a game where you can use everything you get until the end of time.

I also personally do not play MtG specifically because the framework is still from 1993. It has aged REMARKABLY well for a game that old, and Richard Garfield deserves all the credit in the world for essentially inventing collectible card games and for how groundbreaking MtG was.

All that said, MtG is really showing its age. It's like, bad by all modern standards (but not horrible or unplayable). Any success it continues to enjoy is because of its legacy. An older MtG crowd exists because it's the oldest game on the block. Newer players flock in that direction because it's the biggest game in town. It's not the quality of the game that keeps that juggernaut rolling along. Again, amazing for its age, bad when compared to similar, more modern games.

As for all other games, let's keep evolving with the times, yeah?

1 hour ago, Yournamehere said:

This was exactly my sentiment above. It's probably worse for folks who have kids and would be looking to spend roughly $600 or more for a 4 person family. X-Wing 2.0 seems geared towards the tournament folks who may play only 1 faction.

Sure we can still play with the 1.0 ships and rules, but I don't think new ships will come with 1.0 cards and cardboard, so if you want newer ships, you will have no choice but to upgrade. So for a lot of casual x-wing players who don't want to spend $300-600 for conversion kits, this announcement is the same as announcing that support for x-wing has ended.

I can't imagine even a 4 person family would generally need $600 of conversion kits. You can buy 2 of each conversion kit to be able to field 100 points worth of any ship you want. You just won't be able to field 8 tie fighters against 8 tie fighters, or 5 x-wings against 5 x-wings etc. If you don't spam generics, you might even be able to play with a full family without even buying 2 of each conversion kit.

If you want to fly 100 points of generics against a matching 100 points of the same generic ship allt he time,t hen yes, you'd need 4 conversion kits to do so. But as I've said elsewhere, it makes perfect sense to me that it'll cost more to convert a bigger collection than a small one. If you're buying 4 of each conversion kit, you're looking at double the numbers of everything that you can actaully use ni a standard list (more than double for some ships). For every single ship in the game from the conversion kits standpoint. That's a LOT of cardboard, plastic, and cards.

I've never liked how FFG made rules into game components. To use the humble proton torpedo as an example, in order to equip and use one I need to know how it works and how many points it costs. What I do not need is a separate physical copy of the rules for each proton torpedo in my force. That's silly and redundant.

It's good for FFG because it drives sales, which by extension is good for me, because it means FFG keeps producing new X Wing content, but it's not very consumer friendly. The same is true of nearly every other card component in the game. Almost without exception I would be better served with an A4 printout from a squad builder that contains all the information I need. I can record damage, I have the rules text for pilot traits and upgrades, I can mark off expended 'single use' upgrades. What do I even need the cards for apart from rules reference? And for that I only ever need a single copy.

The dials are a slightly different story, but even then there are other ways to select a maneuver in secret. Having to buy new dials is a pain, but having updated dials is nice.

Sorry I still don't get it. People cant afford conversion kits, but can afford the minis?

In my area the game is dying, down to a handful of players. The game right now is not fun. So many people are already saying they are coming back for 2.0

1 hour ago, Knave Squawk said:

Clearly tournament play was broken and that became a focus.

People keep saying this, but I am failing to find the logic in 2.0 that "fixes" what is "broken" with tournaments. Besides just shaking things up so that people aren't certain where the new meta stands, how does this fundamentally change the tournament picture? This is a serious question.

4 minutes ago, BigBadAndy said:

People keep saying this, but I am failing to find the logic in 2.0 that "fixes" what is "broken" with tournaments. Besides just shaking things up so that people aren't certain where the new meta stands, how does this fundamentally change the tournament picture? This is a serious question.

I 100% agree with you. I believe it was broken as indicated by the success of Loopin' Chewie but I have no idea if the new game fixes anything.

6 hours ago, Yournamehere said:

$80 for 2 cores

For people who provide game components for them and their opponent, like I do, preordering 1 core set and getting the promo damage deck may mean you don't have to buy a 2nd core...

36 minutes ago, BigBadAndy said:

People keep saying this, but I am failing to find the logic in 2.0 that "fixes" what is "broken" with tournaments. Besides just shaking things up so that people aren't certain where the new meta stands, how does this fundamentally change the tournament picture? This is a serious question.

The two big draws from a competitive game standpoint in my opinion:

1. Building the game from the ground up with years of incremental changes in mind. Instead of things like Tallon Rolls, reinforce, Boost, or coordinate being bolted on additions that were not around for prior ships they can be integrated into the game from the beginning. Dial creep is also able to be factored in here, with ships with too good dials (jumpmaster) downgraded, other ships left alone, and subpar dials (X-Wing/TIE Advance) brought up.

2. The app and what it allows. Tournament support for events with nonstandard rules is a great idea, and if the app itself does end up supporting tournament specific bannings, upgrade changes, or point changes that could shake up local kit tournaments. More than that though, the ability to make changes in the app without invalidating physical cards allows OP to react faster to times the competitive meta gets warped by an unexpected combination or one too strong ship.

42 minutes ago, Knave Squawk said:

I 100% agree with you. I believe it was broken as indicated by the success of Loopin' Chewie but I have no idea if the new game fixes anything.

They reworded some cards based on what we have seen so far so they may have changed those cards to. Plus, the ship itself has changed. No more hard 1 and different arc for one.

23 minutes ago, mdl0114 said:

The two big draws from a competitive game standpoint in my opinion:

1. Building the game from the ground up with years of incremental changes in mind. Instead of things like Tallon Rolls, reinforce, Boost, or coordinate being bolted on additions that were not around for prior ships they can be integrated into the game from the beginning. Dial creep is also able to be factored in here, with ships with too good dials (jumpmaster) downgraded, other ships left alone, and subpar dials (X-Wing/TIE Advance) brought up.

2. The app and what it allows. Tournament support for events with nonstandard rules is a great idea, and if the app itself does end up supporting tournament specific bannings, upgrade changes, or point changes that could shake up local kit tournaments. More than that though, the ability to make changes in the app without invalidating physical cards allows OP to react faster to times the competitive meta gets warped by an unexpected combination or one too strong ship.

I agree with you that those are both great things. I guess I would rather see these added in to the current game with a change of rules rather than a 2.0 revamp. One thing I'm decidedly un-excited about is the introduction of the force powers. It's just another complicated sub-system for a game with a lot of sub systems. It's certainly not going to make the game simpler.

5 minutes ago, BigBadAndy said:

I agree with you that those are both great things. I guess I would rather see these added in to the current game with a change of rules rather than a 2.0 revamp. One thing I'm decidedly un-excited about is the introduction of the force powers. It's just another complicated sub-system for a game with a lot of sub systems. It's certainly not going to make the game simpler.

There was really no way to overhaul everythinf they needed/wants dto without going to a second edition. They needed the new dials, the updated ship bases, etc to be able to do it all. Even if they hadn’t called it “second edidition” you’d have needed all5)3 new stuff for every ship

9 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:

There was really no way to overhaul everythinf they needed/wants dto without going to a second edition. They needed the new dials, the updated ship bases, etc to be able to do it all. Even if they hadn’t called it “second edidition” you’d have needed all5)3 new stuff for every ship

That’s certainly the party line. I’m looking at a lot of dials that haven’t changed and thinking maybe not. I don’t think “Y-wings treat 2 banks as blue” really NEEDS a new dial. Changing the T65 dial to the T70 dial doesn’t seem that big a deal either. And we have no idea what (if anything) happens to the T 70. So yeah I am not trying to convince you. You are free to like what they are doing and support them by buying it. That’s terrific and I hope you have fun.

Bit I’m looking at the fun versus cost and especially hassle factor and thinking I’m just as well off fixing my X-Wing collection, playing 1.0 in my basement and moving on.

21 minutes ago, BigBadAndy said:

That’s certainly the party line. I’m looking at a lot of dials that haven’t changed and thinking maybe not. I don’t think “Y-wings treat 2 banks as blue” really NEEDS a new dial. Changing the T65 dial to the T70 dial doesn’t seem that big a deal either. And we have no idea what (if anything) happens to the T 70. So yeah I am not trying to convince you. You are free to like what they are doing and support them by buying it. That’s terrific and I hope you have fun.

Bit I’m looking at the fun versus cost and especially hassle factor and thinking I’m just as well off fixing my X-Wing collection, playing 1.0 in my basement and moving on.

“A lot of dials that haven’t changed”. The only completely unchanged dials we know of so far to my knowledgee are the tie/ln and the lambda. Advanced is changed, X-Wing is changed, ywing is marginally change, hounds tooth is changed. Not actually sure about the fang...

2 hours ago, BigBadAndy said:

People keep saying this, but I am failing to find the logic in 2.0 that "fixes" what is "broken" with tournaments. Besides just shaking things up so that people aren't certain where the new meta stands, how does this fundamentally change the tournament picture? This is a serious question.

it's kinda hard to explain why 2.0 fixes what's broken because it basically fixes...everything?

suffice it to say, the loopin' chewie scenario came about because there was literally nothing either player could do to influence the game state. They were playing the same ship, but the mechanics in place literally guaranteed that they could not hurt each other

so they played loopin' chewie until time and decided it with a final salvo (die off)

this is is indicative of a game where the player matters less than the busted combos present, a game basically collapsing under the weight of way too many broken mechanics taking the player out of the equation (especially turrets)

there's a lot of things that added up to this, turrets (can't stress it enough, you literally can't dodge a turret), how the price gap between high PS and low PS was utterly insignificant next to the benefit, how you could compound guarantees to literally lock your opponent out of doing anything (palp aces famously, or TIE fighters against reinforce wookies), how high PS synergized with said compounded guarantees...

basically, your ability to play the game mattered a LOT less than your ability to play it

2.0 is slated to address this by taking a hatchet to all of the problems I've mentioned (especially turrets, **** them and good riddance). You now pay appropriate costs for better PS, both as an initial investment and in scaling upgrade costs, and you can no longer effortlessly weave in high ps positioning with action-independent modifiers with unavoidable dice-chucking turrets

upgrade cost scaling, removal of guaranteed defense stacking (Evade now changes results, reinforce can't reduce damage below 0), action chaining being limited by chassis, powerful effects like regeneration are now linked to limited-use charges, card bloat removed and condensed into far more convenient pilot cards...

there's a LOT going on you can't just roll into the game. you have to basically reboot it, which is what they did

7 hours ago, BigBadAndy said:

I think this might be a bit too much hyperbole.

My initial response was to be pretty upset and I am still waffling between disappointment and indifference for 2.0. But at worst, FFG is discontinuing the product line for your current collection. They can’t come and steal it from you. What they are ”extorting” from you, to paraphrase your words, is the ability to participate in future X-Wing organized play.

fair enough, i do agree they have the right to stop producing their game.

i was actually incredibly exited about 2.0, ive been arguing for many of these changes for more than a year.

where i became angry was realizing what a scam the conversion kits are... it will only allow you to play 100/6 lists which dont involve swarms or more than 2 of a ship, and there are not enough bases included to convert everything they are advertising.

I just kickstarter a complete board game and expansions with over 300 detailed miniatures i can use in a dozen different ways and it was $250

updating my x-wing collection will cost $350.

why the **** would i spend $350 dollars for some cardboard and plastic that FFG knowingly sold me while they were working to make my collection obsolete?

8 minutes ago, Vontoothskie said:

where i became angry was realizing what a scam the conversion kits are... it will only allow you to play 100/6 lists which dont involve swarms or more than 2 of a ship, and there are not enough bases included to convert everything they are advertising.

If by 2, you mean half to two thirds of a list of baked baseline generics. And by not enough bases, you mean enough to run a full standard list in each kit.

Quote

I just kickstarter a complete board game and expansions with over 300 detailed miniatures i can use in a dozen different ways and it was $250

updating my x-wing collection will cost $350.

If you have to spend $350 to upgrade your whole collection you have FAR, FAR than $250 or even $350 worth of miniatures you get to play out of the deal.

That’s over a hundred ships worth of conversions. Even keeping a conservative 100 instead of adding in the extras beyond that, and assuming they were all $15 ships (never mind all the large ships and any epics or $20 small ships), that’s be $1500 worth of ships. Add in large ships, extra models, anything else, it may well be over $2000 worth of ships flyable

Okay, late to the discussion party, but I thought I would share why I am "quitting" to help the OP understand my perspective.

Why do people rather quit the game instead of buying the new starter kit and ONE conversion set (100 $)? I quite enjoy the game the way it is. For me, X-Wing will be complete at the close of 1E. I don't consider this "quitting". Instead, I consider this enjoying the game that I have. I don't feel obligated to constantly upgrade and expand what I am already content with. I won't suddenly stop playing this game. It is fun.

What was the expectation of the people who want to quit? As I mentioned above, I don't see this as "quitting". I bought a game - a great game - and I still intend to enjoy it.

Why do people, who want to quit, do not take do it yourself solutions into consideration? X-Wing is playable in its current state - it is 1E (now). Why spend time making DIY solutions to game that is playable? I could just be playing the game. I think this question places a deficit on what currently exists. Why should I feel the need to "fix" something I don't find broken?

What do the people do with their ships when they quit? Play the game I have. At least, that is what I plan to do. This (concept of "quit" or "game death") seems to come up a lot in threads of games that have stagnated or recently become OP. The game doesn't die as long as you play it (and/or have people to play it with).

What could FFG do now (with X-Wing 2.0 announced), to keep you playing? I'll still be playing ... X-Wing 1E.

Hope that helps!