8 hours ago, 235711 said:

Please help me understand. With X-Wing 2.0 FFG will give us a lot of the changes the community was asking for. Balance and longevity seem to be the main two goals. But instead of enthusiastic discussions of the already revealed rules and cards this forum is dominated by rage quit posts. But why?

Why do people rather quit the game instead of buying the new starter kit and ONE conversion set (100 $)? I am aware of the fact, that one conversion set is not enough to field two dozens of X-Wings at once or all three factions. But probably it will be enough to have a lot of fun in the first few month of 2.0. Probably even more fun than in the last year of X-Wing 1.0.

What was the expectation of the people who want to quit? (regarding the future of X-Wing and the price tag of conversions)

Why do people, who want to quit, do not take do it yourself solutions into consideration?

What do the people do with their ships when they quit?

What could FFG do now (with X-Wing 2.0 announced), to keep you playing?

Answers from this thread (unsorted and without check of feasibility):

- price tag of conversion kits reduced to 30 - 35 $

- sell individual conversion kits for ships

- sell the new damage deck and other mandatory stuff (asteroids?) separately, so that it is not mandatory to buy the new starter kit

Edit: Judgement does nothing for understanding, so I removed some parts of my post and added another question, which I will update with answers.

to field just my favorite squad (5 khiraxz) I will have to spend 150 dollars. thats 2 scum conversions and a core set

to field my second favorite squad(triple defenders) I will need to spend another 100(2 imperial conversions, assuming i already bough a core)

my third favorite squad is rebels... you see where this is going

and the real issue is that these conversion kits dont even provide all the components:

there arent enough medium bases

there seem to be waaaay fewer unique pilots and upgrades

and you will still need to rebuy half the ships in your collection to get the updated cards and pilots that arent in the conversion kits.

additionally, WE DONT EVEN KNOW WHAT THE NEW VERSION OF SHIPS/FACTIONS DO!

as someone who only bought ships I like in the quantities I can field, i have 0 incentive to spend $150 to play my 5 khiraxz when I dont even know what they cost in squad points, etc.

the implimentation here was completely botched and unless FFG starts being very clear about whats in the new game then they are effectively holding our collections for ransom without telling us what we get for paying it

I started playing X wing to play with my step sons The have something we can All do together it was simple and easy.

I tried not to make it too confusing or hard but I was making sure that we had new ships to play with and I was paid for it all I'm on a budget Play the new system could be very expensive I'm looking at least $200Cause I'll have to buy 3 conversion sets plus the The starter Box is another 40. Shipping and tax yeah so be clearly over 200 to play again we already been Playing. Now the biggest thing about 2.0 is that they cannot add the force, Which should only Influence what 5 the 6 pilots in the whole game. Then there's also the cardboard part the tokens only things I didn't care for about X wing was you have to have all these different tokens they didn't make the base more streamlined to take care of that they left them the same. I was hoping that they would do something like they did in Armda where the Shields would be on for base but they're not.

Is this killing the game for me I don't know maybe I was looking to get into legion but that and this whole thing Knox that out. I was just starting to take my sons how to the gaming stores to play X wing against other people if the cost gets too high we might have the stop because bill public play 2.0 and I would prefer to play the original. Which means that I probably won't buy any more ships because well the not gonna be supported by the 1st edition.

But that's my opinion at a could change who knows.

Peace out

2 minutes ago, Vontoothskie said:

to field just my favorite squad (5 khiraxz) I will have to spend 150 dollars. thats 2 scum conversions and a core set

to field my second favorite squad(triple defenders) I will need to spend another 100(2 imperial conversions, assuming i already bough a core)

my third favorite squad is rebels... you see where this is going

or you by 1 scum kit, 1 imperial kit, 1 rebel kit to convert most of each faction, then buy 2 extra kihraxz conversions and 1 extra defender conversion from people who have extras. Or you wait for the waves that rerelease those models and get the mini-conversion kits (in whatever form it takes) to get everything wihtout the new model.

2 minutes ago, Vontoothskie said:

and the real issue is that these conversion kits dont even provide all the components:

there arent enough medium bases

There's enough to fly a standard list. And if you DO buy multiple factions, you'll have plenty of extra as well.

2 minutes ago, Vontoothskie said:

there seem to be waaaay fewer unique pilots and upgrades

There's a lot less upgrades. Do we know there's less unique pilots? X-wing gained new pilots, y-wing gained new pilots, tie fighter gained new pilots...

2 minutes ago, Vontoothskie said:

and you will still need to rebuy half the ships in your collection to get the updated cards and pilots that arent in the conversion kits.

You won't have to buy any new models to get updated cards

2 minutes ago, Vontoothskie said:

additionally, WE DONT EVEN KNOW WHAT THE NEW VERSION OF SHIPS/FACTIONS DO!

We have a ton of spoiler articles coming between now and september.

2 minutes ago, Vontoothskie said:

as someone who only bought ships I like in the quantities I can field, i have 0 incentive to spend $150 to play my 5 khiraxz when I dont even know what they cost in squad points, etc.

So...download the squadbuilder before you purchase? We may well see point info in spoiler articles too. Who knows.

Five factions now means 5 faction kits at $50.00 a pop. $250.00 plus new core set is $300.00 USD without tax. You need more than one kit? That's another $50.00 for each faction.

My wife and I play together for 90% of our games. We play all factions. We both need an additional kit for rebels and empire. That's 400.00 USD plus tax. Just to keep using the same ships we've already spent hundreds of dollars on. To replace, I might add, a system that my gaming circle has no problems with. With just the hope that the new system which artificially makes Force users better options versus non Force users is somehow a better game overall.

If people don't understand why that is a problem then I don't know what else to say.

3 hours ago, Wiredin said:

yup, I don't play just one faction. I like to play all factions. $90 is core and one faction. $190 for all three. Still less than I paid for the last wave of ships (granted I did buy 3 Gunboats, 3 Phantom II, 1 Silencer, 1 BSF, 0 Kimos)

So your Dengar/Tel list. The Scum conversion kit does include enough parts to fly 2 jump masters. So you can fly Dengar/Tel right out of the conversion box!

It hasn't been confirmed, but it has been heavily implied that most if not all pilots from the original game are making it to 2.0 and only the "generic unique" pilots are now being named. They may not have the same abilities or play the way you remember them...but they will be there. (ie: Zeta Leader may now be Dorf Sunderman)

Now, for scum players everywhere, I totally understand the pain and suffering to buy a core set that you have no need for X-wing and Tie Fighters just so you can get some of the main components to play the game with.

Ah, ok. Thats better then I feared then. Just $190.

6 minutes ago, Bulwyf said:

Five factions now means 5 faction kits at $50.00 a pop.

for what it's worth, they've stated that the resistance and first order conversion kits will have a lower price point. And they've also stated that there will be some sort of conversion card packs available. Might not be as bad as you're thinking. But yeah, there will be some buy in. I'm planning to get one of each kit and trade online or locally for other things that I need for extra's I don't. then see if I need any more and check to see what new products have been announced. $190 max for everything available at launch. That's not horrible. not great for sure but much less than investing in a new game that I prob won't like as much.

1 minute ago, Bulwyf said:

Five factions now means 5 faction kits at $50.00 a pop. $250.00 plus new core set is $300.00 USD without tax. You need more than one kit? That's another $50.00 for each faction.

My wife and I play together for 90% of our games. We play all factions. We both need an additional kit for rebels and empire. That's 400.00 USD plus tax. Just to keep using the same ships we've already spent hundreds of dollars on. To replace, I might add, a system that my gaming circle has no problems with. With just the hope that the new system which artificially makes Force users better options versus non Force users is somehow a better game overall.

If people don't understand why that is a problem then I don't know what else to say.

Nah, this thread was disingenuous from the start. It started with a flawed premise, and questions that were clearly rhetorical. Then, as always happens when people answer the question of "What is your problem?", the forum brigade came in to crap on any and all responses, declare that if you have a problem it can only be emotional, or because you are stupid, or bad with money, etc, etc.

Then, the icing on the cake? It turns into the forum brigade kvetching about the "vocal minority" trying to chase people away. It's just, so utterly predictable.

Resistance and FO conversion kits will also update more copies of each ship they said since they have less to begin with.

THROW OUT EVERYTHING YOU KNOW ABOUT SQUAD BUILDING!

Do not think that because you can fly 3 defenders in todays game means you will be able to fly 3 Defenders (5 A-Wings, 5 TIE STrikers, 5 Kirax fighters...etc.etc.etc.) in 2.0.

do not base how many dials you need on your squads today

So much is being reworked that you cannot assume any lists will make a 1:1 conversion over.

2 minutes ago, Wiredin said:

THROW OUT EVERYTHING YOU KNOW ABOUT SQUAD BUILDING!

Do not think that because you can fly 3 defenders in todays game means you will be able to fly 3 Defenders (5 A-Wings, 5 TIE STrikers, 5 Kirax fighters...etc.etc.etc.) in 2.0.

do not base how many dials you need on your squads today

So much is being reworked that you cannot assume any lists will make a 1:1 conversion over.

As evidence, Armada and Legion seem to have learned from 1.0 about more balanced builds. It’s inefficient to spam single fighter types in the former and there are straight up limits and minimums of each unit type in the later. 3 defenders may be either impossible to fit in a 200 point list (Armada approach) or illegal (Legion approach).

6 hours ago, Sasajak said:

Someone gets it ?

90% if my collection is useless in 1e if I play competitively which is why I retreated to HotAC/Epic/casual scenarios.

Why would you spend hundreds of dollars to stop playing the best form of XWM?

But if you don't spend, the game is dead. There will never be a 1.0 version of a Resistance A-Wing, etc.

1 minute ago, Darth Meanie said:

There will never be a 1.0 version of a Resistance A-Wing, etc.

I cried.

Tallie Lintra, RIP x2

40 minutes ago, Bulwyf said:

Five factions now means 5 faction kits at $50.00 a pop. $250.00 plus new core set is $300.00 USD without tax. You need more than one kit? That's another $50.00 for each faction.

My wife and I play together for 90% of our games. We play all factions. We both need an additional kit for rebels and empire. That's 400.00 USD plus tax. Just to keep using the same ships we've already spent hundreds of dollars on. To replace, I might add, a system that my gaming circle has no problems with. With just the hope that the new system which artificially makes Force users better options versus non Force users is somehow a better game overall.

If people don't understand why that is a problem then I don't know what else to say.

Before I consider it a "problem," I guess I need to know what is a reasonable alternative. Most people, at least for now, feel like the conversion kits are breathing new life into something that is already a mostly dead collection anyway.

It's not as if you don't have options. You don't have to buy additional kits for Rebels and Empire for each of you. You could also choose to not to buy into 2.0. You could choose to focus more on one faction for a time. In other miniatures games, people tend not to collect every single option. That's possible in X-wing, but that doesn't mean it's required.

41 minutes ago, Vontoothskie said:

they are effectively holding our collections for ransom without telling us what we get for paying it

I think this might be a bit too much hyperbole.

My initial response was to be pretty upset and I am still waffling between disappointment and indifference for 2.0. But at worst, FFG is discontinuing the product line for your current collection. They can’t come and steal it from you. What they are ”extorting” from you, to paraphrase your words, is the ability to participate in future X-Wing organized play.

2nd REUP > 2nd Ed R&E > 2nd Ed > 1st Ed

2.0 > 1.0?

Willing to spend the asking price on the core and conversion kit. Will eventually get 1 for each faction. If I stay depends on the cost to pick up the new pilots/upgrades in the future waves for ships I already own. If parity can be reached without too much $$$$, count me in. If power creep is adjusted where I can put T65's on the table and not have to fly the latest release to compete, I'm all in.

9 hours ago, 235711 said:

Why do people rather quit the game instead of buying the new starter kit and ONE conversion set (100 $)?

What was the expectation of the people who want to quit?

Why do people, who want to quit, do not take do it yourself solutions into consideration?

What do the people do with their ships when they quit?

What could FFG do now (with X-Wing 2.0 announced), to keep you playing?

- price tag of conversion kits reduced to 30 - 35 $

- sell individual conversion kits for ships

- sell the new damage deck and other mandatory stuff (asteroids?) separately, so that it is not mandatory to buy the new starter kit

I will not quit, and while I'm looking forward to many of the good changes, a lot of bad changes leave a bad taste in my mouth:

1) I will no longer be able to play competitively with everything I have, rather I will have to only play with one faction until a year or so until I can afford the others.

2) While I won't quit, the kits could have been cheaper (halve the content), have better distribution (include more x-wings instead of a-wings, include more tie fighters and defenders instead of inquisitors and aggressors/strikers). I would also have loved a conversion kit for the core (no ships), or that old cores weren't outdated.

3) This change mainly affects competitive players. The competitive scene for 1.0 will die eventually. There is no really good way for do it yourself. There have been some efforts like supremacy or 200 point rebalance. Those could potentially include newer content, but it will be a really high amount of work for a shrinking community. There is another change that irks me: That upgrade cards are full sized. This has a lot of repercussions. Typical tables have little space (watch the yesterday's FFG stream to know what a typical table looks like. Tables at my stores don't even have the extra space at the sides. Currently there are 14-pocket sized pages that are ideal for faster round setup and transport. Making stuff bigger without an easy storage and setup solution increases space and time requirements, all for that 10% extra card space for action icons that could have easily been compressed into the old size. This is a change that devs (and possibly playtesters) thought was good, but is really bad. To have a similar solution for 2.0 would be incredibly hard, since the optimal placement means cards will be overlapping others.

4) I would keep some ships and sell some other stuff if I quit.

5) Halving the kits and giving more popular ships an extra slot is a good start. I am against having individual kits, it would be very expensive and hard for logistics. For the required stuff, as I said before, just a conversion kit for the core.

6) They can also learn from their mistakes and from their biased playtesters/devs: for some reason they have always made the galactic empire very bad or given them broken stuff that is quickly nerfed. I hope that all factions are equally viable and that all ships are also viable. I also would like them to support 1.0 until the end of the year at least to give time for players to update. Parallel support for both formats, for just a few months, costs little and can increase the number of converts.

I think for some they will have seen a fairly small percentage of players demand the game be rebalanced.

Their reasons for doing so are various (nostalgia for the early game, stale metas at the high level, or just because their particular list/ships aren’t doing so well).

I don’t think much will change post 2.0. A new meta will eventually emerge and whilst it will be tweaked slightly the same ships will dominate (for the most part).

Given the above there is then another percentage of players (again probably fairly small) who had no issues with 1.0.

Their reasons will be various (they were competitive, their ships were well placed etc etc). Some of those players however will have limited disposable income and the cost seems prohibitive.

Its likely more so if - as currently - we cannot see if our current purchases are valid or not. For example I’ve got a moderately sized collection across all factions. Are those ships any good? No idea. Are my favourite ships & pilots any good? No idea.

Instead we must now wait while FFG slooooowly spoils (with much #hype!) things ‘we already own’.

That grates on some players - just the way things are.

48 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:

You won't have to buy any new models to get updated cards

I’m sorry, are you absolutely certain about this? So when they release the new 2.0 versions of old ships they are guaranteed forever and always to only include cards and upgrades that are already in the conversion kits? I find this improbable.

Just now, BigBadAndy said:

I’m sorry, are you absolutely certain about this? So when they release the new 2.0 versions of old ships they are guaranteed forever and always to only include cards and upgrades that are already in the conversion kits? I find this improbable.

No, on the stream yesterday they said that they will continue to release conversion kits. So, yes, you'll have to buy something to get the cards, but it won't be a whole ship pack. I don't know if that means it will be a smaller kit for each ship or each wave.

14 minutes ago, AlexW said:

Most people, at least for now, feel like the conversion kits are breathing new life into something that is already a mostly dead collection anyway.

Depends on who you are.

B-wings have been in just about every single game of XWM I have played, because my brother likes them. I find them hard to kill.

Just because BBBBZ wasn't in the meta did not mean the ship was "dead."

12 minutes ago, Cr0aker said:

If power creep is adjusted where I can put T65's on the table and not have to fly the latest release to compete, I'm all in.

I find it absolutely hilarious that we are finally offered a T-65 fix, and without ever having had a chance to try it, are sold a new game.

5 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

I find it absolutely hilarious that we are finally offered a T-65 fix, and without ever having had a chance to try it, are sold a new game.

I mean, you

1.) Get to fly it long before you can actually play the new game

2) play the fixed X, and the contents from the box, in the new game

9 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Depends on who you are.

B-wings have been in just about every single game of XWM I have played, because my brother likes them. I find them hard to kill.

Just because BBBBZ wasn't in the meta did not mean the ship was "dead."

I find it absolutely hilarious that we are finally offered a T-65 fix, and without ever having had a chance to try it, are sold a new game.

I guess I'd argue that it doesn't just have to do with "meta." I mean, if your brother is playing B-Wings all the time, then he isn't using a lot of other ships that could be in his collection. I tend to focus on Imperial and my Scum collection has been dead awhile anyway. Just getting the Imperial option for me will keep me busy awhile. That's why I kind of find the notion of people wanting and feeling to the need to upgrade every possible ship in their collection Day 1 and being up in arms about the cost of it a little histrionic.

I feel like I am the only casual player here.
I spent around €100 for a base set and a few fighters. People here claim that X-Wing is a cheap game, and maybe compared to other miniature games it is. But it is the game that I spent the most money on so far.
The changes in 2.0 look fun, but I feel most of them only matter in competitive play.

If I want to play 2.0 I have to basically rebuy everything. As a young father I do have a few entertainment Euros, but really not many, and there are better ways to spend them than to buy an update that only allows me to play competitive, which I don't plan on doing.

The money is better spent on other hobbies that I have too little money for, e.g. 3D printing.

At least now I don't feel bad for DIYing/proxying ships, since that game (X-Wing 1) has been abandoned by the publisher.

7 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

If a difference of €20 is enough to push someone out of a game that is pure luxury anyway, then that person should maybe rethink their prioritios in life. Especially in the context of competitive play where the cost of travel, food and entry is definitely a lot more than 20 bucks. Every. time.

GreenDragoon, you are coming off as very aggressive towards peoples responses. I would suggest a less hostile approach.

As for someone looking to spend 20 pounds/dollars per kit is not unreasonable. Most people are going to end up buying 4-6 kits to cover their collections so it is 80 to 120 pounds/dollar savings. Also, I think it is important to discuss the fact that selection of dials you get does not match anyone's collections, so maybe if FFG had made it so you could select the dials you wanted it would have been better. I have heard that they will have a large number of modification cards and upgrades in each pack as well, which is good the first time you buy one, but that makes those card redundant in following kits that are the same faction, and most likely will have overlaps in each of the other factions kits. Finally, this is the just the first 3 faction upgrades what about First Order and Resistance and all the Epic ships. So it is a lot of money for people and FFG needs to realize they need to think about the casual player more since casual players you usually have the larger sets since they do not limit themselves to the 100 6 meta. If they lose the casual players I do not think tournament players will keep the game alive.

5 minutes ago, AlexW said:

I guess I'd argue that it doesn't just have to do with "meta." I mean, if your brother is playing B-Wings all the time, then he isn't using a lot of other ships that could be in his collection. I tend to focus on Imperial and my Scum collection has been dead awhile anyway. Just getting the Imperial option for me will keep me busy awhile. That's why I kind of find the notion of people wanting and feeling to the need to upgrade every possible ship in their collection Day 1 and being up in arms about the cost of it a little histrionic.

Just like your advice to me to focus on one faction after I said in the post you quoted that 90% of my games are against my wife? That's a bit unreal to suggest focusing on one faction when there's two people involved as a valid option.