8 minutes ago, Jadotch said:

For people with large sets, it is diminished returns for each kit. The first kit IS a great deal! For I myself will be able to use 90% of it. For the second set Roughly 30%, for the 3rd it is about 5%.

This is precisely why they have said that they are going to also be offering smaller conversion kits later on - whether that means individual kits or kits with multiple ships. We will have to wait and see.

Serious question: Are you wanting to buy multiple conversion kits to actually play 4 X-Wings at once? Or 8 Z-95s? Or 4 Sheathapedes? Or is it so your whole collection will be completely 2.0? How often have you actually flown the number of ships you would be getting the second kit for? (I personally don't like the idea of only having 2 X-Wings at 2.0 when I have 4 even though I have never flown 4.)

7 minutes ago, Wiredin said:

a) Yes. during the livestream yesterday

b) the price of the conversion kits you mean? $50 for a conversion kit with a lot of cardboard and plastic (new bases) and the cards. We can all agree (I think) that the components are high quality. I printed HOTAC, just on glossy high quality hard paper and a bound book, cost me $75 Canadian to print all the components and cut them myself @ Staples. Knowing that...$50 doesn't' seem too bad. Also take into the account that gross profit and net profit are different. Gross profit on the product might be 30%. But the net profit after they pay everyone for the R&R, packaging costs, etc. is probably more like 5-10% if that.

C) yea.. but I'm trying to put it into perspective of what has happened in the past and how much money "we wasted" back then. Heck, I bought 2 Aggressors for intensity. they are still in the blisters!

D) yes, epic is something else... they haven't talked about it much. But they did say during the livestream yesterday they choose the number of dials per kit based on how much they think you should be able to field in the new format. For example, I think I heard them say Vader was somewhere between 85-90 points base! So if Vader is half your list... things are going to be different for sure.

E) valid, just being cheeky haha.

F) for sure, it's not what FFG would have done. I would assume they looked at the market and what other games have done in the past and came up with what they thought was a suitable strategy.

H) for sure it was speculation. but it's valid. I don't think X-wing would have lived on as long as games like Batteltech or Warhammer in the original version.

I) agreed

J) they really did. the livestream summary thread that was going yesterday has so much fantastic information in it and summaries things very well. I think that Livestream is a much watch for anyone that is apprehensive.

yea, the salty thing was uncalled for... everyones complaints are valid, especially from their point of view. Something I've been trained to do in my job is to realize that a lot of peoples concerns/objections/complaints usually stem from not having all the information, not understanding the information, or being too emotional over the information they do have.

Agreed and thanks for the response

X-Wing 2.0 looks reallllyy good.

9 minutes ago, Skitch_ said:

This is precisely why they have said that they are going to also be offering smaller conversion kits later on - whether that means individual kits or kits with multiple ships. We will have to wait and see.

Serious question: Are you wanting to buy multiple conversion kits to actually play 4 X-Wings at once? Or 8 Z-95s? Or 4 Sheathapedes? Or is it so your whole collection will be completely 2.0? How often have you actually flown the number of ships you would be getting the second kit for? (I personally don't like the idea of only having 2 X-Wings at 2.0 when I have 4 even though I have never flown 4.)

Last game I played (Monday) was a 350 point Epic game. 14 TIEs were on the hard wood floor. I myself brought 4 X-Wings. (Dash was ran over by a Raider ... Almost a Christmas Song ...)

I am still figuring out what I am doing or not doing for 2.0.

I am not Anti -2.0 or conversion kits ... I just don't know if it is for me.

1 minute ago, Jadotch said:

Last game I played (Monday) was a 350 point Epic game. 14 TIEs were on the hard wood floor. I myself brought 4 X-Wings. (Dash was ran over by a Raider ... Almost a Christmas Song ...)

I am still figuring out what I am doing or not doing for 2.0.

I believe the TIE dials haven’t actually changed at all so.. use the old ones? And photocopy the ship cards as needed? Crazy idea, I know!

9 minutes ago, Skitch_ said:

This is precisely why they have said that they are going to also be offering smaller conversion kits later on - whether that means individual kits or kits with multiple ships. We will have to wait and see.

Serious question: Are you wanting to buy multiple conversion kits to actually play 4 X-Wings at once? Or 8 Z-95s? Or 4 Sheathapedes? Or is it so your whole collection will be completely 2.0? How often have you actually flown the number of ships you would be getting the second kit for? (I personally don't like the idea of only having 2 X-Wings at 2.0 when I have 4 even though I have never flown 4.)

it's because you have the option to. I get it, even though I'm in the camp of I only going to buy one conversion per faction because it's all I need to essentially need based on the info we have. We still don't know what points will look like. Epic is a very valid argument for needing more...and that will be painful.

I know there are many out there who have the need/desire to have a 1:1 ratio of plastic to cardboard. I do understand it. I really do. And that is going to be painful to deal with financially, especially if done all at once.

I think those people should do one conversion kit per faction to start and then build from there slowly to get that 1:1 ratio back if they still desire it.

1 minute ago, FalseError said:

I believe the TIE dials haven’t actually changed at all so.. use the old ones? And photocopy the ship cards as needed? Crazy idea, I know!

And substitute the bases for bases from other ships. All you need is the firing arc(s) and hatch marks.

2 minutes ago, FalseError said:

I believe the TIE dials haven’t actually changed at all so.. use the old ones? And photocopy the ship cards as needed? Crazy idea, I know!

or print off the lists?

1 hour ago, Wiredin said:

No, it really isn't. But it is an important thing to ask yourself before you say 2.0 is too expensive. If you spent $100-200 per wave, this really is no different. What you are probably saying is "I don't see the value in this" When really...it's an amazing value when you take the emotion out of it.

Fact's vs feelings. It's an important thing that people should look at right now.

FACT: 2.0 is really not more expensive to buy a core and 3 conversion kits for than buying everything from a standard wave with 1-2 copies of each ship.

FACT: X-Wing wasn't going to last forever in it's current form. The stuff was going to be "uselsess" sooner or later.

Feeling: FFG is launching 2.0 as a cash grab.

QFT

1 hour ago, Jadotch said:

Last game I played (Monday) was a 350 point Epic game. 14 TIEs were on the hard wood floor. I myself brought 4 X-Wings. (Dash was ran over by a Raider ... Almost a Christmas Song ...)

I am still figuring out what I am doing or not doing for 2.0.

I am not Anti -2.0 or conversion kits ... I just don't know if it is for me.

I enjoy epic too, I have a bunch of x-wings, a-wings and z95s purely becasue I enjoy flying big squads in epic. If i wanted to convert them all immediately. It would hurt the wallet pretty bad.

From the looks of it though. 2.0 Epic is going to be a ways off and I am not too concerned with trying to run swarms in standard 2.0 so i am going to start small. a rebel kit and a new core set. If they release more directed kits later that will help fill out my collection without having to buy another 50 dollar kit and ending up with a bunch of cardboard i don;t need.

Really I just don;t see any reason to go all in on day one.

1 hour ago, Wiredin said:

it's because you have the option to. I get it, even though I'm in the camp of I only going to buy one conversion per faction because it's all I need to essentially need based on the info we have. We still don't know what points will look like. Epic is a very valid argument for needing more...and that will be painful.

I know there are many out there who have the need/desire to have a 1:1 ratio of plastic to cardboard. I do understand it. I really do. And that is going to be painful to deal with financially, especially if done all at once.

I think those people should do one conversion kit per faction to start and then build from there slowly to get that 1:1 ratio back if they still desire it.

To add, people are complaining about $200 dollars to update most of an entire collection when we were sometimes paying between $30- $100 to update a single ship. Do they want to keep that as the norm? Crazy.

All they have said about Epic period is they arent ignoring it but nothing on it as of yet.

I suspect sometime Q1-2019 or christmas 2018 we'll have epic conversions. Hopefully they revamp them enough to make them actually a valid threat outside ENGAGE RAMMING SPEED - seriously epic ships have always felt horrible outside of the insta-splat mechanic for their price. Theyre action-starved support vessels that take 1/3 your list and have a HUGE bullseye painted on the bow of their ship.

Other than the awesome feeling you get for fielding a massive model, i hated epic ships.

3 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:

All they have said about Epic period is they arent ignoring it but nothing on it as of yet.

I suspect sometime Q1-2019 or christmas 2018 we'll have epic conversions. Hopefully they revamp them enough to make them actually a valid threat outside ENGAGE RAMMING SPEED - seriously epic ships have always felt horrible outside of the insta-splat mechanic for their price. Theyre action-starved support vessels that take 1/3 your list and have a HUGE bullseye painted on the bow of their ship.

Other than the awesome feeling you get for fielding a massive model, i hated epic ships.

I really love flying against them, not so much flying them myself. Yes, Epic needs reworked.

5 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:

All they have said about Epic period is they arent ignoring it but nothing on it as of yet.

I suspect sometime Q1-2019 or christmas 2018 we'll have epic conversions. Hopefully they revamp them enough to make them actually a valid threat outside ENGAGE RAMMING SPEED - seriously epic ships have always felt horrible outside of the insta-splat mechanic for their price. Theyre action-starved support vessels that take 1/3 your list and have a HUGE bullseye painted on the bow of their ship.

Other than the awesome feeling you get for fielding a massive model, i hated epic ships.

I wouldn't anticipate them coming that soon. maybe a year out. Epic will probably get a massive over haul. it needs it. for the exact reasons you stated. if they could make it more enjoyable and maybe even introduce it into the a regular tournament format... it would sell more epics.

6 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

Most of my collection is currently unplayable. I can‘t use punishers or HWKs or Bwings, for example.

Sorry, why is that? Last I looked those ships are perfectly legal to fly in organized play.

Look, this thread is the worst sort of thread there can be. It’s just an invitation to tell other people that, if they disagree with your opinion on 2.0 their reasoning is all flawed. It’s the worst kind of arrogance to tell people how they should feel and what they should think. These are community message boards and people are here to express their thoughts. Nobody needs some jerk telling them that if they don’t have $200 they shouldn’t be playing miniatures games.

For many people price matters. For many more, we have the money but VALUE matters. I have plenty of discretionary entertainment dollars. But I don’t like to throw them away on junk. And FFG hasn’t sold me on the value of 2.0. If they’ve sold you, then great. Have fun with it.

TL:DR share your perspective, don’t criticize other peoples’ perspective.

8 hours ago, 235711 said:

Why do people rather quit the game instead of buying the new starter kit and ONE conversion set (100 $)? I am aware of the fact, that one conversion set is not enough to field two dozens of X-Wings at once or all three factions.

Wrong. 1 Conversion kit doesn't even give you enough to fly 4 X-Wings or 4 A-Wings or 4 B-Wings. 4 ships is not "two dozens".

That is why I'm pissed, because FFG teased me with the prospect of being able to finally fly 5 X-Wings in a squadron together for a $50 Saw's Renegades pack, and then trolled the **** out of me being like "Naw, that'll actually $140, same goes if you want to be able to keep flying 5 A-Wings or 4 B-Wings in a tournament or League".

Seriously, I'm still trying to get FFG's spit out of my eye.

7 minutes ago, Tvboy said:

Wrong. 1 Conversion kit doesn't even give you enough to fly 4 X-Wings or 4 A-Wings or 4 B-Wings. 4 ships is not "two dozens".

That is why I'm pissed, because FFG teased me with the prospect of being able to finally fly 5 X-Wings in a squadron together for a $50 Saw's Renegades pack, and then trolled the **** out of me being like "Naw, that'll actually $140, same goes if you want to be able to keep flying 5 A-Wings or 4 B-Wings in a tournament or League".

Seriously, I'm still trying to get FFG's spit out of my eye.

I understand this, they really structured the conversion kits wrong, and that bugs a lot of people. (Including myself.) Especially with the "waste" it produces. Over 50% of my order is going head to the trash can if I decide to buy in.

This really sucks for someone like me who plays with his wife and has to maintain at least 2 separate factions. After doing the math, just to play 2 of the 5 factions with full flexibility for lists, I would need to $200 worth of conversion kits plus another $80 for 2 cores. That's $280 that won't even allow me to play my other 3 factions. I'd need to spend $580 total just to play the game with 2.0 rules.

I guess I'll just be stuck in the past and play 1.0 rules because 2.0 rules cannot be $580 better than 1.0.

As a point of comparison, I could buy most of Descent 2.0 for less than $580, and Descent 2.0 came with new plastic, maps, and cards. I think the MSRP on X-Wing 2.0 should be about half what it is.

Please note there is no way FFG could get everyone's sets completely down, but I think there would have been a way to get most peoples "mostly right".

4 for if the ship was in an "ACE" set.
1 for large ships (or the ship was in a large ship pack.)
4 for any ship in a Epic Ship pack.
2 for everything else.

-and-

5-6 TIEs.

11 minutes ago, BigBadAndy said:

And FFG hasn’t sold me on the value of 2.0.

That is the single best argument.

I have stated many times why I think it's a great value, hoping to help others see that there is value in this process. But it comes down to what works best for you.

2 hours ago, Jadotch said:

Last game I played (Monday) was a 350 point Epic game. 14 TIEs were on the hard wood floor. I myself brought 4 X-Wings. (Dash was ran over by a Raider ... Almost a Christmas Song ...)

I am still figuring out what I am doing or not doing for 2.0.

I am not Anti -2.0 or conversion kits ... I just don't know if it is for me.

Just gotta use his last name to make it Christmasy

"Rendar got run over by a Raider, flying around not caring 'bout debris!" "You could say there's no such thing as Raiders, but that's just what you get when it's Disney"

13 minutes ago, BigBadAndy said:

It’s the worst kind of arrogance to tell people how they should feel and what they should think.

Maybe. But there is a very very loud minority who really did not understand the kits, and who tries to decry 2.0 for many others.

I‘m not arguing to change your mind. I don‘t care about you. Internet arguments are most of the time for bystanders on the fence, and this one is not different.

6 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

If a difference of €20 is enough to push someone out of a game that is pure luxury anyway, then that person should maybe rethink their prioritios in life. Especially in the context of competitive play where the cost of travel, food and entry is definitely a lot more than 20 bucks. Every. time.

fanboy hater gonna hate.

2 minutes ago, JediSamurai said:

fanboy hater gonna hate.

Solid argument right there

13 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

Maybe. But there is a very very loud minority who really did not understand the kits, and who tries to decry 2.0 for many others.

I‘m not arguing to change your mind. I don‘t care about you. Internet arguments are most of the time for bystanders on the fence, and this one is not different.

Ironic, since I'm seeing a lot of hyperbole and misinformation being used to throw shade at people that are unhappy with how the conversions are being handled.

The main being the false argument that only people with ridiculously oversized collections will have to buy multiple conversion kits.