I don't want to quit.

BUT I will need to save up enough for 2 conversion sets (TIE fighter and TIE striker swarms are my normal choice of squad) as well as a core set, and I will be essentially 'out of the game' until I can do so, which will be quite a while due to already having disposable income for this year pre-committed to stuff that falls under the banner of 'adulting'.

Don't get me wrong; given what's in them, the price is reasonable compared to other X-wing products and certainly compared to other wargames. I just can't afford it.

9 minutes ago, Shinren said:

Again. Rebels, imperials, resistance and first order. 4 kits and they do not let me play all of my stuff. And I do not play scum, so some people will have to buy 5 kits!

Also again, Resistance and FO are cheaper because they have 3 and 4 ships, respectively.

9 minutes ago, Shinren said:

Good to know that you are rich and more than 200€ are not a problem.

I'm not and I never said that I am. But I understand a little bit of personal finance. I can now put 1€ to the side on every day and have it ready when it's sold. That's called saving up. Very useful concept. And another useful concept: luxury vs necessity. X-wing is not a necessity, even if it might look like one. Waiting some more weeks will not kill anyone. And a third useful concept: restraint. Here's the kicker: all three together make it very easy and possible to get the conversion kits so you can keep playing this game of plastic space ships. (e: yes, sometimes it's just not possible. But then my initial point applies: there are other priorities and there's nothing wrong with that)

9 minutes ago, Shinren said:

But here we are trying to understand why some of us are disappointed. And you are just saying we have to spend what they ask just for playing with our toys. Some of us disagee...

And I'm trying to tell you why you don't have to be. The sky is not falling, FFG did a nearly perfect job. 2.0 was necessary, there is no doubt about it. And a conversion kit is great because it rewards loyal players. They can reuse their old stuff. Of course we'll have to pay for that, so the question is how much, not if. You say 30$ would be good, and I point out that the additional 40$ or up to 120$ if you're being dishonest is not that much over the course of several months.

3 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

Also again, Resistance and FO are cheaper because they have 3 and 4 ships, respectively.

I'm not and I never said that I am. But I understand a little bit of personal finance. I can now put 1€ to the side on every day and have it ready when it's sold. That's called saving up. Very useful concept. And another useful concept: luxury vs necessity. X-wing is not a necessity, even if it might look like one. Waiting some more weeks will not kill anyone. And a third useful concept: restraint. Here's the kicker: all three together make it very easy and possible to get the conversion kits so you can keep playing this game of plastic space ships. (e: yes, sometimes it's just not possible. But then my initial point applies: there are other priorities and there's nothing wrong with that)

And I'm trying to tell you why you don't have to be. The sky is not falling, FFG did a nearly perfect job. 2.0 was necessary, there is no doubt about it. And a conversion kit is great because it rewards loyal players. They can reuse their old stuff. Of course we'll have to pay for that, so the question is how much, not if. You say 30$ would be good, and I point out that the additional 40$ or up to 120$ if you're being dishonest is not that much over the course of several months.

I'm not dishonest.

You are just rude and nothing more.

And explaining anything to you is just a waste of time.

40 minutes ago, Howlix said:

It seems like a pure cash grab to me.

The pure cash grab would have been to issue a FAQ 5.0 and 56 "veteran packs" at $30 apiece.

X-Wing’s shelf life just got extended for many years. That’s the big takeaway. These game mechanics we all love just got a complete refresh, and everything I can think of that leaders in the community asked for has been done.

Everyone’s financial situation is different, so I won’t judge anyone’s individual choices, but I’m confident the X-Wing community is in for many years of pew pew fun. If someone quits, we’ll miss you, but the community should thrive.

1 minute ago, Old Sarge said:

X-Wing’s shelf life just got extended for many years. That’s the big takeaway. These game mechanics we all love just got a complete refresh, and everything I can think of that leaders in the community asked for has been done.

Everyone’s financial situation is different, so I won’t judge anyone’s individual choices, but I’m confident the X-Wing community is in for many years of pew pew fun. If someone quits, we’ll miss you, but the community should thrive.

That's 100% correct.

But if we want to analyze the cost issue, we have to discuss about it listening to different point of view.

No one would like to quit. We all want to play, but forced to pay such an amount can create some bad feelings, because we already payed for the game. That's all.

One thing to remember is that there is going to be a secondary market for this stuff too. People are going to buy the conversion kits but have left over parts, and some Ebay types are going to buy the kits just to break apart and sell off the components.

Heck, just thinking of my Imp collection, I'm going to have multiple extra dials, as with a couple of exceptions I only own one of each model. And I'm not buying a $50 Rebs kit to get one lousy T-65 dial and a few cards. I'll trade the extras I end up with or just buy what I need off someone else.

21 minutes ago, Shinren said:

That's 100% correct.

But if we want to analyze the cost issue, we have to discuss about it listening to different point of view.

No one would like to quit. We all want to play, but forced to pay such an amount can create some bad feelings, because we already payed for the game. That's all.

You paid for X-Wing 1.0, which you have been able to enjoy for some time now.

This is X-Wing 2.0. You just happen to be able to use little pieces of plastic that are left over from X-Wing 1.0 in it.

What many are failing to realize is the vast majority of people complaining about X-wing 1.0 were those who play in some form of competition. The majority of casual players didn't see a problem with the meta, because they didn't play the meta. They played like minded individuals who played what they liked. To this group 2.0 is completely unnecessary. So after this group has been subjected to constant complaining from the competitive side for multiple years, 2.0 comes out and now the non competitive players are on the other side. Keep this in mind before jumping on your podium and talking down to people.

1 minute ago, Juggerott said:

What many are failing to realize is the vast majority of people complaining about X-wing 1.0 were those who play in some form of competition. The majority of casual players didn't see a problem with the meta, because they didn't play the meta. They played like minded individuals who played what they liked. To this group 2.0 is completely unnecessary. So after this group has been subjected to constant complaining from the competitive side for multiple years, 2.0 comes out and now the non competitive players are on the other side. Keep this in mind before jumping on your podium and talking down to people.

really? I've been seeing the exact opposite

people with really bloated collections thinking they need to spend $350 just so they can run a very specific X-ship list, instead of bothering to arrange trades or consider the possibility of 3rd party markets or the fact that they probably don't need to hit 2.0 immediately with a specific brand of spam we don't even know will still be run

7 minutes ago, papy72 said:

One thing to remember is that there is going to be a secondary market for this stuff too. People are going to buy the conversion kits but have left over parts, and some Ebay types are going to buy the kits just to break apart and sell off the components.

Heck, just thinking of my Imp collection, I'm going to have multiple extra dials, as with a couple of exceptions I only own one of each model. And I'm not buying a $50 Rebs kit to get one lousy T-65 dial and a few cards. I'll trade the extras I end up with or just buy what I need off someone else.

True. The Conversion pack, more than most products, should be prime material for 3 or 4 players to split the costs on, unless you're a '4 of every expansion' type.

32 minutes ago, Old Sarge said:

X-Wing’s shelf life just got extended for many years. That’s the big takeaway. These game mechanics we all love just got a complete refresh, and everything I can think of that leaders in the community asked for has been done.

Everyone’s financial situation is different, so I won’t judge anyone’s individual choices, but I’m confident the X-Wing community is in for many years of pew pew fun. If someone quits, we’ll miss you, but the community should thrive.

Definitely. The changes to the game are sensible, and essentially add in not just new mechanics, but new open-ended mechanics (coloured actions*, bullseye arc, force tokens, charge tokens) that allow them to come up with genuinely new effects.

Divorcing points costs and upgrade bars from the rules lets them 'tweak' balance by points costs and army building, not errata-ing rules or 'add-a-slot' fix cards, meaning that you shouldn't see a situation as often where a card no longer says what's printed on it.

* Theoretically, if you have white actions (as previously) and red actions (cause stress) I wonder if they'll have thought to put in green actions (performable even if stressed)?

1 hour ago, GreenDragoon said:

They can't possibly do that because selling a la carte kits for thousands around the globe would be a logistical nightmare.

That nightmare had been solved about 20 years ago. ?

On demand digital printing and cheap logistic for shipping has been around about that long. Ironically the international shipping is terrible in the united states, getting just the core set from FFG would cost me $111via the FFG store. Meanwhile ordering a bag, sewed on demand in china was the last time I did it about $4, with about $1 shipping. There seems to be something deeply wrong with FFGs logistics. Well, considering that FFG products are on regular base 3 months or more late on their shipping ... sometimes even more than a year ... that is no big surprise, but rather the norm since years with FFG.

3 hours ago, 235711 said:

Why do people rather quit the game instead of buying the new starter kit and ONE conversion set (100 $)?

This is the big issue with me. Returning players should not be forced to buy yet another core set.

We have dice, we have X's and TIEs - either include the cardboard we need in the conversion kits, or ship it to us in a bubble mailer in exchange for our many proofs of purchase.

Do people not know how to budget anymore? It's not like this stuff is coming out next week. There is time to save up money and buy the kits when they do release, and even then you don't need to buy every kit the same day.

If FFG had release smaller conversion kits, people would be complaining about having to buy so many conversion kits. They honestly can't win in this situation. I'd rather have the game get a refresh like this and keep it relevant for many more years. This is a much better scenario than having to re-buy every expansion at their new MSRP.

4 hours ago, 235711 said:

Why do people rather quit the game instead of buying the new starter kit and ONE conversion set (100 $)? I am aware of the fact, that one conversion set is not enough to field two dozens of X-Wings at once or all three factions. But probably it will be enough to have a lot of fun in the first few month of 2.0. Probably even more fun than in the last year of X-Wing 1.0.

What was the expectation of the people who want to quit? (regarding the future of X-Wing and the price tag of conversions)

Why do people, who want to quit, do not take do it yourself solutions into consideration?

What do the people do with their ships when they quit?

What could FFG do now (with X-Wing 2.0 announced), to keep you playing?

Answers from this thread (unsorted and without check of feasibility):

- price tag of conversion kits reduced to 30 - 35 $

- sell individual conversion kits for ships

- sell the new damage deck and other mandatory stuff (asteroids?) separately, so that it is not mandatory to buy the new starter kit

First I am very much on the fence for 2.0 and I understand why it was updated. I am not going to quit X-Wing, but I may not buy into it anymore. I will be playing 1.0 for awhile.

By all means X-Wing 1.0 is now a unsupported game.

1) I have only been to a few tournaments, it is not really my thing. My primary play group are a lot more casual than myself and I doubt they will ever buy into 2.0. That is going to be money sitting on the shelf if I do. I already don’t play 1.0 enough for how much I spend on it.

2) Again, the price isn’t that bad, it is the waste of the kits. I am going to need 8 conversation sets, which in itself over time is not that bad. I have several single ships as well. Let’s take the TIE Phantom, I am going to have 5 extra TIE phantom cardboard sets when everything is bought. Maybe I can have an expensive bond fire with the extra cardboard ? It is hard buying that much knowing a lot will go into the garabage (or given away in bulk.)

3) Of course, but there were many “do it yourself” alternative formats to 1.0. Why do we need 2.0 at all with all the DIY formats that 1.0 already has?

4) Keep playing 1.0. I don’t think ‘quit ‘ is the right word for what many mean. I think most mean ‘won’t buy the new stuff’.

5) For myself, a conversation kit for a coreset would be a step in the right direction. Including the cardboard for the X-Wing and 2 TIEs.

Also, the APP will hurt a lot of ‘beer and nuts’ casual players. It adds a layer of hassle for new players (who don’t play a lot of board games)coming over for just a night of gaming. It is already teeth pulling introducing a miniature game to people, then telling them they need an online reference does not go over well for some who’s Last serious game was Catan or Pokémon. (List building is fun for a lot of people.) An App or for that matter any sort of reference is just a hassle if it is not printed on a card. It is great for serious tournaments players, but bad for the casual.

58 minutes ago, Cartchan said:

The pure cash grab would have been to issue a FAQ 5.0 and 56 "veteran packs" at $30 apiece.

A "pure cash grab" would have been to increase the scale of the new models, meaning everyone's existing collection would be - while not strictly redundant - undersized when fielded alongside new releases.

1 hour ago, Shinren said:

Again. Rebels, imperials, resistance and first order. 4 kits and they do not let me play all of my stuff. And I do not play scum, so some people will have to buy 5 kits!

Good to know that you are rich and more than 200€ are not a problem.

But here we are trying to understand why some of us are disappointed. And you are just saying we have to spend what they ask just for playing with our toys. Some of us disagee...

Finally, the new core set is mandatory... Just for the damage deck! If you already own the ships, templates and so on, you are paying 40€ for ghe damage deck!

And for the classic couple who shares their collection it's even twice of that, because you don't get full conversions for each ship, but merely extra generics + dials. So you can't resale your old ships as complete 2.0 replacements anymore and you will not be able to use for example Coran + Miranda in a mirror set and take this to a tournament, even when you could have done this before.

So two core sets, and 10 conversion kits for standard play AND most likely 1 or 3 epic conversion kits on top. Now I will not claim that first order or resistance will be as expensive, but it's still altering the deal and I shall pray that I don't get more new info which alters it again ... like missing medium bases for example. $400+ to basically just convert a set (mostly) of one of everything into the same playable state it used to be before the 2.0 change is ... not ideal.

Trading might still be a thing. I might sell all the spare generic conversions which I get from buying two of each conversion kits.

4 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

A "pure cash grab" would have been to increase the scale of the new models, meaning everyone's existing collection would be - while not strictly redundant - undersized when fielded alongside new releases.

This strategy is reserved for Games Workshop :)

Majority of the people that are saying theyre gonna quit wont actually quit. Theyre just the typical loudmouth trying to get attention by making a scene.

The few people that ACTUALLY quit just wont like the new rules n such.

These guys will pay 30-40 dollars for an expansion that fixes 2 ships but won't pay 50 to fix 2 of all their ships...

4 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

A "pure cash grab" would have been to increase the scale of the new models, meaning everyone's existing collection would be - while not strictly redundant - undersized when fielded alongside new releases.

A "pure cash grab" would have been to sell single ship conversion packs for $5-10 apiece and split the upgrade cards between them.

Just now, Vineheart01 said:

Majority of the people that are saying theyre gonna quit wont actually quit. Theyre just the typical loudmouth trying to get attention by making a scene.

The few people that ACTUALLY quit just wont like the new rules n such.

There is no reason to "quit" over this anyway. You might quit OP, but that's it. You don't need those cards nor dials at all anyway to convert to 2nd edition. You can play just fine with the old models, 3rd party dials or dial apps and happily use a squad builder and those fancy print outs of them.

But this certainly would reduce the amount of new stuff you are going to buy, right?

Also I bought all of the coloured bases and now there's medium bases so what about my medium coloured bases. ?

I am quite excited about the news of 2.0 I got fed up of the new releases being a load of ships I wasn't interested in, and having so many upgrades to chose from that it was really hard to play games with my friends that didn't spend much time thinking about x-wing lists.

I like the new force power idea, I like the Quick Play cards and threat level idea, and think that picking up a few upgrade packs will give x-wing a new lease of life for me. Will have to see about selling off extra generics and stuff, but I think someone pointed out what I realised, that getting the new core set and Saws Renegades means I'll have 4 lots of x-wing dials. etc. (6 x-wings) but not sure I will be needing all 6. It is a little aggravating that they don't cover my entire collection but I think I will be able to pick up individual ship kits on e-bay for anything I need.

I am looking at $140 already though, (I don't have scum) which may be more than some people can afford. People do like to invent the worst case scenario though.

Oh but also I think i am going to sell my First Order and Resistance stuff on e-bay becasue more conversion kits is annoying, so I'll just stick to the OT.

4 hours ago, 235711 said:

Please help me understand. With X-Wing 2.0 FFG will give us a lot of the changes the community was asking for. Balance and longevity seem to be the main two goals. But instead of enthusiastic discussions of the already revealed rules and cards this forum is dominated by rage quit posts. But why?

Why do people rather quit the game instead of buying the new starter kit and ONE conversion set (100 $)? I am aware of the fact, that one conversion set is not enough to field two dozens of X-Wings at once or all three factions. But probably it will be enough to have a lot of fun in the first few month of 2.0. Probably even more fun than in the last year of X-Wing 1.0.

What was the expectation of the people who want to quit? (regarding the future of X-Wing and the price tag of conversions)

Why do people, who want to quit, do not take do it yourself solutions into consideration?

What do the people do with their ships when they quit?

What could FFG do now (with X-Wing 2.0 announced), to keep you playing?

Answers from this thread (unsorted and without check of feasibility):

- price tag of conversion kits reduced to 30 - 35 $

- sell individual conversion kits for ships

- sell the new damage deck and other mandatory stuff (asteroids?) separately, so that it is not mandatory to buy the new starter kit

Edit: Judgement does nothing for understanding, so I removed some parts of my post and added another question, which I will update with answers.

Simple. The cost (both financial and opportunity) of staying in is greater than the cost of getting out. For me personally, I took up L5R and jumped into other hobbies since I last played X-Wing competitively (summer 2017). I was thinking about getting back into X-Wing over the summer, but with this announcement, I realized I would have to shell out a great deal of cash if I wanted to play competitively. I realized with the amount I would put in, I could use those funds elsewhere (such as L5R and my other hobbies) and get a greater value than I could by staying in. Plus, the increase of small ships to $20 likely means an overall increase in the cost of X-Wing products in the future, and I was already spending a great deal on X-Wing before 2.0. Furthermore, when people get out they will likely sell their ships so that gives them more income to put into other hobbies.

*Again, this is my opinion.*

I am behind on my reading up on 2.0 I feel. Looking at an example scenario here, how much would fielding, using my 1.0 ships, four or fixe X-wings cost me?