16 hours ago, VanderLegion said:

If by 2, you mean half to two thirds of a list of baked baseline generics. And by not enough bases, you mean enough to run a full standard list in each kit.

If you have to spend $350 to upgrade your whole collection you have FAR, FAR than $250 or even $350 worth of miniatures you get to play out of the deal.

That’s over a hundred ships worth of conversions. Even keeping a conservative 100 instead of adding in the extras beyond that, and assuming they were all $15 ships (never mind all the large ships and any epics or $20 small ships), that’s be $1500 worth of ships. Add in large ships, extra models, anything else, it may well be over $2000 worth of ships flyable

false. So i notice you are making some false assumptions there. first, i have no idea what youre taking about with the squads. for example

5 khiraxz fighters

3 defenders

6 rebel z95s

just 3 of the dozens of viable 100/6 lists which cannot be played with a conversion kit. coincidentally they are some very common lists too, i bet you yourself has played with or against one of these lists

Second, you cannot field the all the listed conversions because it appears they are not providing enough medium bases. lets say i only owned ships listed as contents of the rebel conversion kit and played games with my wife. If she flew the 2 k-wings and I flew a u-wing and 2 arc170s, we would have to buy a second pack, even though we are ONLY converting the listed ships.

3rd, you assume i cant play the game if i dont buy 2.0. i already own the game and enough squads to play with friends. FFG wants me to spend money to fix their design mistakes, with a virtual garauntee they will do this again in a few years. they release purposefully broken expansions and only nerf them once theyve hit sales goals. thats a hard sell to re-commit

4th, i never said my x-wing collection was less than $350 dollars. no clue where that came from. i am saying that all but 1 of the squads i regularly play, the squads i spent hours and hours painting to match, i cant upgrade them with less than 2 conversion kits.

right now FFG could change that and save all of us hundreds of dollars to convert... and if they do im all in and happy to do so. but when the cardboard upgrades cost more than a new x-box, im out

2 hours ago, VanderLegion said:

My math there was actually only for 1 set of conversion kits. And remember, it was a very conservative estimate (100 ships, while you get like 37-40 per pack, so probably 110-120, and $15 per ship, ignoring all the $20 or large base ships costing more). At $350 listed in the post I quoted, you're looking at 2 of each conversion kit and a core set, which is far more ships worth. And ayone who tosses out most of the converisons is wasting money.  If you only need a couple hsips extra, I can pretty much guarantee you could get them for way cheaper on the secondary market instead of buying a whole nother conversion kit. And you can probbaly sell the extra conversions you don't need from a kit to make back some of the cost (or trade conversions you don't need for ones you do to avoid buying an extra kit)

Again, you are assuming a very high efficiency in matching the players collection to the conversion kits. Between my brother and I, I estimate we have about 70 ships. They are spread pretty evenly between factions. If we buy all three conversion kits I would estimate we will actually be able to convert about 50-60 of those ships. So, depending on your point of view, I'm paying $190 to lose 10-

20 ships or 300 to keep them all. Remember, since I didn't ask for a version 2.0 I don't feel like I'm gaining anything - I'm just preventing a loss. You can tell me I'm "wasting" the conversion kits and my money all you want, but I am not an ebay seller, I'm not going to start selling and shipping and sorting a lot of swag I don't need from FFG to see if I can recover $10 of waste from each conversion kit. My time has a lot more value to me than my dollars. So all of your math is mostly just convincing me that FFG is wasting my money and my time with the 2.0 update. I will believe that extra ships will be cheaper on the secondary market when I see it. My prediction is that it will be a cold day in **** before you find a TIE fighter, Interceptor or Y wing conversion on the secondary market. I will be thrilled to be wrong.

17 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

Second, FFG has said they are going to have more conversion kits for each wave so veteran players don’t have to buy the model. This has been pointed out to you several times. I can only assume that your ignoring of this fact is because it hurts your narrative.

I'm not the person you were saying this too, but my issue is not that it hurts my narrative, it's that I don't believe them. This is the same company that released the "fix" for the TIE Advanced in a $100 Epic ship. And put Wedge Antilles only in the T65 standalone pack. The idea that they are not EVER going to put a new pilot, new card or "new hotness" in a new expansion that contains an old ship is, frankly, not believable. I don't believe it. They will throw on a different color and say "it's not like the old one, see?" Or something similar. Just because they are now in 2.0 and people (including me) see a lot of stuff they like doesn't suddenly erase all the reasons that 1.0 ever upset people. They need someone to buy the new releases and I'm sure they understand as well as you and I do that a huge percentage of their sales go to existing players. Again, I'd be happy to be proven wrong, but at this point I just don't believe it.

1 minute ago, Vontoothskie said:

false. So i notice you are making some false assumptions there. first, i have no idea what youre taking about with the squads. for example

5 khiraxz fighters

3 defenders

6 rebel z95s

just 3 of the dozens of viable 100/6 lists which cannot be played with a conversion kit. coincidentally they are some very common lists too, i bet you yourself has played with or against one of these lists

"If by 2, you mean half to two thirds of a list of baked baseline generics."

You listed 3 lists that use more htan half of a squad. 2 of them were spamming a full list of cheap generics, the third is 72 points minimum. If you want to fly a full list of one ship's cheap generics, you buy 2 kits or get extra conversions for that ship second-hand.

And depends on what you're definition of "viable" is. You can fly anything you want, but if you look at the competitive scene on meta-wing, the only ship that's at all competitive to spam generics for a full list is the auzituck. Outside of 3-4 auzitucks, you have to go down to the 46th list in the list archetypes to find another one that you can't field with a single conversion kit for a given faction (#46 is 4 scurrgs). To be fair, we have no idea what's good in 2.0, so it's possible spamming cheap generics of the same ship WILL be really good. It also might not be.

I did indeed play triple defenders for a long time after veterans released. But it doesn't bother me to have to find 1 extra defender conversion (or more likely, a second imperial conversion since I have 6 defenders, a ton of tie fighters now, and enough of various other ships to be able to use a large portion of a second conversion kit, but that's something I'd purchase down the road. I'm perfectly happy with 1 to start)

For bases I was talking about plastic bases for medium ships.

1 minute ago, Vontoothskie said:

Second, you cannot field the all the listed conversions because it appears they are not providing enough medium bases. lets say i only owned ships listed as contents of the rebel conversion kit and played games with my wife. If she flew the 2 k-wings and I flew a u-wing and 2 arc170s, we would have to buy a second pack, even though we are ONLY converting the listed ships.

You get 4 medium bases. That's enough to field any legal list (there's no medium base that you can field more than 4 of in a list based on current ship costs that I can think of). If you're playing with your wife, you're now supporting 2 players. That takes more than it does to support 1 player. And it wouldn't surprise me if they updated colored bases to include medium bases (or had a separate pck for them) if you absolutely need more than 4 bases and absolutely don't want any other conversion kit (if you convert more than 1 faction after all, or get 2 kits for one faction, you'll have more than 4 medium bases)

1 minute ago, Vontoothskie said:

3rd, you assume i cant play the game if i dont buy 2.0. i already own the game and enough squads to play with friends. FFG wants me to spend money to fix their design mistakes, with a virtual garauntee they will do this again in a few years.

Where do I assume that? I'm just talking about actually converting to 2.0. That's the whole point of the discussion. You're free to play all the 1.0 you want.

1 minute ago, Vontoothskie said:

they release purposefully broken expansions and only nerf them once theyve hit sales goals

If you say so.

1 minute ago, Vontoothskie said:

4th, i never said my x-wing collection was less than $350 dollars. no clue where that came from. i am saying that all but 1 of the squads i regularly play, the squads i spent hours and hours painting to match, i cant upgrade them with less than 2 conversion kits.

you were comparing your kickstarted board game + expansions for $250 to upgrading to 2.0 for $350. I was pointing out that $350 updating x-wing makes far more than it's value worth of ships playable and usable in 2.0. Just the 3 squads you listed above is $240 of ships before looking at the fact that you probably also have 2 copies of guns for hire and 2 copies of imperial veterans for the fixes. And I'm pretty sure you have a lot of other ships as well.

1 minute ago, Vontoothskie said:

right now FFG could change that and save all of us hundreds of dollars to convert... and if they do im all in and happy to do so. but when the cardboard upgrades cost more than a new x-box, im out

What change do you suggest to save you hundreds of dollars converting ships?

16 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

First, it isn’t actually impossible to see this as a proper implementation as many people seem to accepting it as such. You might not see it as proper (and that is your right), but that doesn’t mean it is impossible.

Second, FFG has said they are going to have more conversion kits for each wave so veteran players don’t have to buy the model. This has been pointed out to you several times. I can only assume that your ignoring of this fact is because it hurts your narrative.

"pointed out to me", lol.

thank you master for teaching me your opinions as facts, such is your great wisdom that we must not question.

problem is you are flat out wrong.

FFG said that new cards and new pilots will be contained in 2.0 versions of expansions, and that these cards may NOT be available without buying the expansion. they have also said that any future convo-kits will be sold, not given away, so im not even sure why you are bringing it up. if i want to fly talonbane cobra but he doesnt come with theconversion kit, ill have to buy the new khiraxz in addition to the core and convo-kit even though i own him already. there is no "once you buy the conversion your old kit is flyable" deal here. if you play epic, it isnt covered. if you fly swarms, it isnt covered. if you were hoping to fly your imp raider, too bad. doesnt exist in game. there are some serious issues here

1 minute ago, BigBadAndy said:

Again, you are assuming a very high efficiency in matching the players collection to the conversion kits. Between my brother and I, I estimate we have about 70 ships. They are spread pretty evenly between factions. If we buy all three conversion kits I would estimate we will actually be able to convert about 50-60 of those ships. So, depending on your point of view, I'm paying $190 to lose 10-

20 ships or 300 to keep them all. Remember, since I didn't ask for a version 2.0 I don't feel like I'm gaining anything - I'm just preventing a loss. You can tell me I'm "wasting" the conversion kits and my money all you want, but I am not an ebay seller, I'm not going to start selling and shipping and sorting a lot of swag I don't need from FFG to see if I can recover $10 of waste from each conversion kit. My time has a lot more value to me than my dollars. So all of your math is mostly just convincing me that FFG is wasting my money and my time with the 2.0 update. I will believe that extra ships will be cheaper on the secondary market when I see it. My prediction is that it will be a cold day in **** before you find a TIE fighter, Interceptor or Y wing conversion on the secondary market. I will be thrilled to be wrong.

I'm not the person you were saying this too, but my issue is not that it hurts my narrative, it's that I don't believe them. This is the same company that released the "fix" for the TIE Advanced in a $100 Epic ship. And put Wedge Antilles only in the T65 standalone pack. The idea that they are not EVER going to put a new pilot, new card or "new hotness" in a new expansion that contains an old ship is, frankly, not believable. I don't believe it. They will throw on a different color and say "it's not like the old one, see?" Or something similar. Just because they are now in 2.0 and people (including me) see a lot of stuff they like doesn't suddenly erase all the reasons that 1.0 ever upset people. They need someone to buy the new releases and I'm sure they understand as well as you and I do that a huge percentage of their sales go to existing players. Again, I'd be happy to be proven wrong, but at this point I just don't believe it.

Disbelief is fine and up to you.

That, however, doesn't mean you can ignore what FFG said. If you are going to argue that FFG is goning to make us rebuy models for new cards, you still need to acknowledge what they said. It's about accuracy and transparency. The claim I quoted before stats it as a fact rather then a possibility with contradicting testimony.

4 minutes ago, BigBadAndy said:

Again, you are assuming a very high efficiency in matching the players collection to the conversion kits. Between my brother and I, I estimate we have about 70 ships. They are spread pretty evenly between factions. If we buy all three conversion kits I would estimate we will actually be able to convert about 50-60 of those ships. So, depending on your point of view, I'm paying $190 to lose 10-

20 ships or 300 to keep them all.

Which is still converting over $750-900 worth of ships (plus getting a few new models in the core set. And again, thats conservatively estimating only $15 per ship for all 50-60 ships)

4 minutes ago, BigBadAndy said:

Remember, since I didn't ask for a version 2.0 I don't feel like I'm gaining anything - I'm just preventing a loss.

You don't have to upgrade to 2.0. You're free to keep playing 1.0 or get out of the game.

4 minutes ago, BigBadAndy said:

You can tell me I'm "wasting" the conversion kits and my money all you want, but I am not an ebay seller, I'm not going to start selling and shipping and sorting a lot of swag I don't need from FFG to see if I can recover $10 of waste from each conversion kit. My time has a lot more value to me than my dollars. So all of your math is mostly just convincing me that FFG is wasting my money and my time with the 2.0 update. I will believe that extra ships will be cheaper on the secondary market when I see it. My prediction is that it will be a cold day in **** before you find a TIE fighter, Interceptor or Y wing conversion on the secondary market. I will be thrilled to be wrong.

That's entirely up to you. If you don't want to spend the time you an eat the loss on extra conversions. Or look for locals to swap with that have different ships they don't need. As for the secondary market, I'd be willing to bet that there will be stores online that open up conversion kits and break it up to sell individual ships. There's already places that open expansions in 1.0 and sell the upgrades individually.

1 minute ago, SabineKey said:

Disbelief is fine and up to you.

That, however, doesn't mean you can ignore what FFG said. If you are going to argue that FFG is goning to make us rebuy models for new cards, you still need to acknowledge what they said. It's about accuracy and transparency. The claim I quoted before stats it as a fact rather then a possibility with contradicting testimony. 

This is fair. Since there is some disagreement on whether they actually said this, maybe you could point me to the place I can see this definitive statement.

I think somebody left the vacuum on cause this thread sucks!

1 minute ago, Vontoothskie said:

"pointed out to me", lol.

thank you master for teaching me your opinions as facts, such is your great wisdom that we must not question.

problem is you are flat out wrong.

FFG said that new cards and new pilots will be contained in 2.0 versions of expansions, and that these cards may NOT be available without buying the expansion. they have also said that any future convo-kits will be sold, not given away, so im not even sure why you are bringing it up. if i want to fly talonbane cobra but he doesnt come with theconversion kit, ill have to buy the new khiraxz in addition to the core and convo-kit even though i own him already. there is no "once you buy the conversion your old kit is flyable" deal here. if you play epic, it isnt covered. if you fly swarms, it isnt covered. if you were hoping to fly your imp raider, too bad. doesnt exist in game. there are some serious issues here

Wow. The hypocrisy is strong with this one. And you aren't selling your opinions as facts?

The point is under your narrative, I'm gonna have to buy a whole new model to just get cards, which FFG has specifically said is not the case. You won't have to buy a whole new Khiraxz. Just a converter.

Just now, BigBadAndy said:

This is fair. Since there is some disagreement on whether they actually said this, maybe you could point me to the place I can see this definitive statement.

First post, 6th paragraph, which begins with "Wave 2 and beyond".

5 minutes ago, Vontoothskie said:

"pointed out to me", lol.

thank you master for teaching me your opinions as facts, such is your great wisdom that we must not question.

problem is you are flat out wrong.

FFG said that new cards and new pilots will be contained in 2.0 versions of expansions, and that these cards may NOT be available without buying the expansion. they have also said that any future convo-kits will be sold, not given away, so im not even sure why you are bringing it up. if i want to fly talonbane cobra but he doesnt come with theconversion kit, ill have to buy the new khiraxz in addition to the core and convo-kit even though i own him already. there is no "once you buy the conversion your old kit is flyable" deal here. if you play epic, it isnt covered. if you fly swarms, it isnt covered. if you were hoping to fly your imp raider, too bad. doesnt exist in game. there are some serious issues here

They flat out said repeatedly on stream that you would not have to buy the ship expansions to get anything new added in them. Buying a mini-conversion kit or something is not the same thing as buying a new model. And your kihraxz will be flyable with the conversion kit, regardless of which pilots are or aren't in it. For all we know they may not BRING TBC to 2.0. Quite a few of the legends pilots seem to be ont heir way out based on what we've seen.

I actually did some accounting, and I only have too many TIE/LNs to convert. Not that I ever used that many to start. Even with the other factions, I’m actually bang on target for the conversion boxes to have me covered

2 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:

Which is still converting over $750-900 worth of ships (plus getting a few new models in the core set. And again, thats conservatively estimating only $15 per ship for all 50-60 ships)

Again, this math operates on the assumption that I want to play 2.0. I would rather they fix 1.0.

3 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:

You don't have to upgrade to 2.0. You're free to keep playing 1.0 or get out of the game.

This is intentionally dismissive. All the people complaining about the meta are free to quit the game as well. Instead, they get a new version and my version is retired. I don't want to quit the game. I have just gotten involved in the game and I want to keep playing it, and I'm upset that FFG has pulled the rug out from under me and are now asking me to pay (again) to stay involved in it. Again, I'm not trying to convince you. I'm just explaining. The thread, after all, is "I don't understand why people would quit because of conversion costs." Also, I am certainly not free to keep playing 1.0 in the same way I was just last week because FFG will no longer be supporting it. Imagine if instead of a 2.0 announcement they said "thanks for your support. Xwing is now over." I don't think it's crazy to expect you would be unhappy about that. This is how it feels to me, only with the added rub of "well, we will keep supporting it if you give us a lot more money to change a bunch of stuff you didn't want to be changed." Again, I'm not telling you not to buy into 2.0, and I'm not even asking FFG to change anything. I'm just explaining to you why people are upset and their feelings are legitimate.

2 minutes ago, joewrightgm said:

I actually did some accounting, and I only have too many TIE/LNs to convert. Not that I ever used that many to start. Even with the other factions, I’m actually bang on target for the conversion boxes to have me covered

I'm pretty close. I think all told, I've got four ships (two defenders, a B-Wing, and an E-Wing), but I can wait for the wave converters for them.

1 minute ago, BigBadAndy said:

Again, this math operates on the assumption that I want to play 2.0. I would rather they fix 1.0.

1.0 is not in a place that can be easily fixed. I'm not even sure how they would fix it (especially thigns like getting the all iconic movie ships back to playable states, much less sweeping changes like remvoing PWTs, and all the other changes they're doing) in the existing game without requireing you to buy a bunch of new stuff anyway. Would you rather buy 1-2 copies of aces packs for every ship to fix 1.0?

6 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

First post, 6th paragraph, which begins with "Wave 2 and beyond".

Thank you, this is very helpful. Here is what I see there:

• "Wave 2 and beyond will include new upgrades and cards but some of the stuff in the conversion packs will be in them. BUT, there will be upgrade sets for the rereleased ships for existing players so you don't need to buy the new ship. They haven't come out with any details but they mentioned the possibility to have stuff packed together for the wave in a conversion pack/new ship cards + token pack."

Unfortunately, when you said "they have said you won't have to rebuy the ships to get new pilots" to me, this implied that there wouldn't be new pilots released in the ship packs. That's clearly not the case. So the statement actually confirms that the new expansions will in fact come with cards not available in the conversion kits. That's kind of contrary to the point you seemed to be making. Further, my interpretation of the availability of later "conversion kits" is not really all that positive. Unless I see the price comparisons I'm not sure that's better. I don't actually mind having extra ships around. I just don't want to have to buy yet another expansion to get the pilot for my ship. So, more or less exactly like I suggested they will be selling you pilots and upgrades in future expansions - it's just that those will come either with or without the model. Again, I'm dubious, but frankly I think this reality is a lot closer to my expectations than to my understanding of what you were trying to tell me.

Keeping in mind of course that this is an unofficial transcript of a broadcast that may be clarified later and turn out to be very far from the reality.

Lol.

Nobody is quitting. Be serious.

It's all talk.

1 minute ago, BigBadAndy said:

Thank you, this is very helpful. Here is what I see there:

• "Wave 2 and beyond will include new upgrades and cards but some of the stuff in the conversion packs will be in them. BUT, there will be upgrade sets for the rereleased ships for existing players so you don't need to buy the new ship. They haven't come out with any details but they mentioned the possibility to have stuff packed together for the wave in a conversion pack/new ship cards + token pack."

Unfortunately, when you said "they have said you won't have to rebuy the ships to get new pilots" to me, this implied that there wouldn't be new pilots released in the ship packs. That's clearly not the case. So the statement actually confirms that the new expansions will in fact come with cards not available in the conversion kits. That's kind of contrary to the point you seemed to be making.

The point we're making is that you won't have to buy full expansions and models just to get new pilots or upgrades from rereleased ships.

1 minute ago, BigBadAndy said:

Further, my interpretation of the availability of later "conversion kits" is not really all that positive. Unless I see the price comparisons I'm not sure that's better. I don't actually mind having extra ships around. I just don't want to have to buy yet another expansion to get the pilot for my ship.

Your ship will have pilots. They just might add new ones in the future. Do you buy aces packs for new upgrades and pilots?

1 minute ago, BigBadAndy said:

So, more or less exactly like I suggested they will be selling you pilots and upgrades in future expansions - it's just that those will come either with or without the model. Again, I'm dubious, but frankly I think this reality is a lot closer to my expectations than to my understanding of what you were trying to tell me.

Keeping in mind of course that this is an unofficial transcript of a broadcast that may be clarified later and turn out to be very far from the reality.

The broadcsat itself is available on FFGs twitch channel where you can hear the developer himself say it multiple times.

1 minute ago, BigBadAndy said:

Thank you, this is very helpful. Here is what I see there:

• "Wave 2 and beyond will include new upgrades and cards but some of the stuff in the conversion packs will be in them. BUT, there will be upgrade sets for the rereleased ships for existing players so you don't need to buy the new ship. They haven't come out with any details but they mentioned the possibility to have stuff packed together for the wave in a conversion pack/new ship cards + token pack."

Unfortunately, when you said "they have said you won't have to rebuy the ships to get new pilots" to me, this implied that there wouldn't be new pilots released in the ship packs. That's clearly not the case. So the statement actually confirms that the new expansions will in fact come with cards not available in the conversion kits. That's kind of contrary to the point you seemed to be making. Further, my interpretation of the availability of later "conversion kits" is not really all that positive. Unless I see the price comparisons I'm not sure that's better. I don't actually mind having extra ships around. I just don't want to have to buy yet another expansion to get the pilot for my ship. So, more or less exactly like I suggested they will be selling you pilots and upgrades in future expansions - it's just that those will come either with or without the model. Again, I'm dubious, but frankly I think this reality is a lot closer to my expectations than to my understanding of what you were trying to tell me.

Keeping in mind of course that this is an unofficial transcript of a broadcast that may be clarified later and turn out to be very far from the reality.

That's fair. We had different definitions of what "rebuying the ship" meant and I didn't make mine clear.

1 minute ago, VanderLegion said:

1.0 is not in a place that can be easily fixed. I'm not even sure how they would fix it (especially thigns like getting the all iconic movie ships back to playable states, much less sweeping changes like remvoing PWTs, and all the other changes they're doing) in the existing game without requireing you to buy a bunch of new stuff anyway. Would you rather buy 1-2 copies of aces packs for every ship to fix 1.0?

It's a great question, and actually a much more relevant and interesting topic to discuss. I am not a game designer. But frankly I think they could have done a lot with banning or limiting numbers of copies and or certain card combinations, and experimenting with the tournament format a bit. Right now, tournaments are very basic. But take a look at what they have done with Legion. Each game includes some amount of randomization in terms of the objectives and game field conditions. Introducing this might be one way of making some of the meta strategies less relevant. It also would make tournaments more interesting. To be honest, there's a part of me that just really doubts there is ever going to be such a thing as a balanced, interesting, varied tournament structure for a game with so many variables that also depends on multiple dice rolls for most interactions. It's a lot to do.

Do I think any of my suggestions would have been perfect? Absolutely not. I doubt they would even be popular and I don't expect FFG to make their decisions based around my needs. But I don't think it's fair of people to expect me to simply accept that 2.0 is the only possible solution to whatever ails X wing and that therefore, the price is good and I should feel happy about it. I just don't agree.

1 minute ago, VanderLegion said:

Do you buy aces packs for new upgrades and pilots?

I actually have to go, do some real world stuff - although i think the thread is getting more interesting. To your point, I bought aces packs to get the cool models and the alternative paints. I bought some lousy expansions, like the E wing, to get upgrades and cards. But I didn't like doing that. And again, pointing out that 2.0 is not "worse" than 1.0 in this regard is also pointing out that it's not better. People keep acting like 2.0 will eliminate these things, and it won't.

Cheers!

On ‎5‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 2:02 PM, Vontoothskie said:

to field just my favorite squad (5 khiraxz) I will have to spend 150 dollars. thats 2 scum conversions and a core set

to field my second favorite squad(triple defenders) I will need to spend another 100(2 imperial conversions, assuming i already bough a core)

my third favorite squad is rebels... you see where this is going

and the real issue is that these conversion kits dont even provide all the components:

there arent enough medium bases

there seem to be waaaay fewer unique pilots and upgrades

and you will still need to rebuy half the ships in your collection to get the updated cards and pilots that arent in the conversion kits.

additionally, WE DONT EVEN KNOW WHAT THE NEW VERSION OF SHIPS/FACTIONS DO!

as someone who only bought ships I like in the quantities I can field, i have 0 incentive to spend $150 to play my 5 khiraxz when I dont even know what they cost in squad points, etc.

the implimentation here was completely botched and unless FFG starts being very clear about whats in the new game then they are effectively holding our collections for ransom without telling us what we get for paying it

I will have an extra k fighter I am willing to trade for a kimogila - I will also have an extra syke interceptor and z 95

1 minute ago, BigBadAndy said:

It's a great question, and actually a much more relevant and interesting topic to discuss. I am not a game designer. But frankly I think they could have done a lot with banning or limiting numbers of copies and or certain card combinations, and experimenting with the tournament format a bit.

On the plus side (if you move to 2.0), it sounds like these are things they can actually do with the squadbuilder. They've talked about being able to set up tournaments where only certain ships or pilots are allowed, or where specific ships can haev upgrade bars changed for a tournament to fit a scenario or something, etc. In addition to making it easier to change points or upgrade bars for balance reasons.

1 minute ago, BigBadAndy said:

Right now, tournaments are very basic. But take a look at what they have done with Legion. Each game includes some amount of randomization in terms of the objectives and game field conditions. Introducing this might be one way of making some of the meta strategies less relevant. It also would make tournaments more interesting. To be honest, there's a part of me that just really doubts there is ever going to be such a thing as a balanced, interesting, varied tournament structure for a game with so many variables that also depends on multiple dice rolls for most interactions. It's a lot to do.

I'd love to see some form of objectives or scenarios added for tournament play.

I like salt and vinegar. And its Friday.

21 minutes ago, BigBadAndy said:

Again, you are assuming a very high efficiency in matching the players collection to the conversion kits. Between my brother and I, I estimate we have about 70 ships. They are spread pretty evenly between factions. If we buy all three conversion kits I would estimate we will actually be able to convert about 50-60 of those ships. So, depending on your point of view, I'm paying $190 to lose 10-

20 ships or 300 to keep them all. Remember, since I didn't ask for a version 2.0 I don't feel like I'm gaining anything - I'm just preventing a loss. You can tell me I'm "wasting" the conversion kits and my money all you want, but I am not an ebay seller, I'm not going to start selling and shipping and sorting a lot of swag I don't need from FFG to see if I can recover $10 of waste from each conversion kit. My time has a lot more value to me than my dollars. So all of your math is mostly just convincing me that FFG is wasting my money and my time with the 2.0 update. I will believe that extra ships will be cheaper on the secondary market when I see it. My prediction is that it will be a cold day in **** before you find a TIE fighter, Interceptor or Y wing conversion on the secondary market. I will be thrilled to be wrong.

I'm not the person you were saying this too, but my issue is not that it hurts my narrative, it's that I don't believe them. This is the same company that released the "fix" for the TIE Advanced in a $100 Epic ship. And put Wedge Antilles only in the T65 standalone pack. The idea that they are not EVER going to put a new pilot, new card or "new hotness" in a new expansion that contains an old ship is, frankly, not believable. I don't believe it. They will throw on a different color and say "it's not like the old one, see?" Or something similar. Just because they are now in 2.0 and people (including me) see a lot of stuff they like doesn't suddenly erase all the reasons that 1.0 ever upset people. They need someone to buy the new releases and I'm sure they understand as well as you and I do that a huge percentage of their sales go to existing players. Again, I'd be happy to be proven wrong, but at this point I just don't believe it.

Your observation skills are my only hope, lol.

other FFG choice moves:

selling out of jumpasters before nerfing them

selling 3 fix packs while developing 2.0, KNOWING that the last of those fixes, the saw pack, was coming out a month before 2.0. straight greed. pre-order the thing you no longer need! lol

releasing powercreeped hotness in a planned rotation

selling with cards that do not benefit that ship or benefit another ship more, so that people buy the expansion they dont need(ahem, RAIDER)

FFG has a long and storied history of making money off balance corrections, they wont stop. in a year when BossWrek-Herow or whatever OP on release pilot is running the show, i will be shocked if the solution isnt for sale