7 minutes ago, Duskwalker said:

We still don't know for certain if 84 is naked or with load-out, but we know in quick-build he is TL 4 with load-out which translates to roughly 100 points (I think?). in comparison, a fully kitted out Wedge is TL 3. So yeah, he is expansive.

Each threat level corresponds to 1-25 points. So a fully kitted Vader with TL 4 costs 76-100 points.

We do not know for certain because the dev’s quote was a bit nebulous, but a lot of supporting evidence exists for the 84 points to be fully kitted. I made a stab at pricing his upgrades from the Challenge matches based on assuming Black Cracks are 29 points each, but there’s too many unknowns.

Black Cracks would need a heavy discount for a naked Vader to be 84 points.

so can we now say that the Advanced is not only Meh but ?

There are a number of people complaining in the points thread that say the X1 is the same cost as an X-wing, but isn't as good. Personally, I don't get it.

5 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

There are a number of people complaining in the points thread that say the X1 is the same cost as an X-wing, but isn't as good. Personally, I don't get it.

Well..it isn't as good. All there is to it

Reason being is ATC requires a TL (action, range requirement) to be competitive with the Xwing. Without said TL, it turns into Rey's initial perception of the Falcon (ie, garbage)

ATC would be fine if the ship was cheaper, making it more skill dependent but also easier to field than the X. Alas, it costs the same as the X

No reason to field the x1 outside of possible named pilot chicanery. The Phantom completely overtakes it as an Xwing analog (and, imo, Stygium Array makes it probably the single best ship in that point range)

I'd also sooner field the more manueverable, numerous, and reliably 3-dice strikers than the x1

Though point costs are obviously subject to change

1 minute ago, ficklegreendice said:

Well..it isn't as good. All there is to it

Reason being is ATC requires a TL (action, range requirement) to be competitive with the Xwing. Without said TL, it turns into Rey's initial perception of the Falcon (ie, garbage)

ATC would be fine if the ship was cheaper, making it more skill dependent but also easier to field than the X. Alas, it costs the same as the X

No reason to field the x1 outside of possible named pilot chicanery. The Phantom completely overtakes it as an Xwing analog (and, imo, Stygium Array makes it probably the single best ship in that point range)

I'd also sooner field the more manueverable, numerous, and reliably 3-dice strikers than the x1

Though point costs are obviously subject to change

So....just because ATC requires a TL that it's not as good? I just don't see it.

X1 gets missiles, which are better than Torps most of the time. It gets a System slot, including FCS.

1 minute ago, heychadwick said:

There are a number of people complaining in the points thread that say the X1 is the same cost as an X-wing, but isn't as good. Personally, I don't get it.

Well...

What he ^ said.

ATC is not as good as native 3 attack.

3 green dice (without evade) is not as good as +1 health.

System slot is not as good as Droid slot.

The dials are pretty comparable.

1 minute ago, heychadwick said:

So....just because ATC requires a TL that it's not as good? I just don't see it.

Yes

1 minute ago, heychadwick said:

X1 gets missiles, which are better than Torps most of the time. It gets a System slot, including FCS.

No. In 2.0 Torps are much better. Proton torps especially.

I don't understand why you think the droid slot is better than the System slot.

I think Missiles are better than Torps because you get more charges for them.

1 minute ago, heychadwick said:

I don't understand why you think the droid slot is better than the System slot.

I think Missiles are better than Torps because you get more charges for them.

Regen is why.

And I'd rate missile higher, but missiles on generics that aren't Inquisitors with Force Deadeye are hard to use.

5 minutes ago, Commander Kaine said:

Yes

No. In 2.0 Torps are much better. Proton torps especially.

Missiles seem especially pointless on the TIE/x1 except for proton rockets. They all let you roll 3 dice if you have a lock... just like the base ship.

Even proton rockets are outshined by advanced proton torpedoes.

2 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

I don't understand why you think the droid slot is better than the System slot.

I think Missiles are better than Torps because you get more charges for them.

Just now, kraedin said:

Missiles seem especually pointless on the TIE/x1 except for proton rockets. They all let you roll 3 dice if you have a lock... just like the base ship.

Exactly.

And they only have 1 charge. And bullseye only.

Missiles are hardly unique to the x1, and they're sorta redundant with ATC. Might as well field Bombers

Yes, requiring a TL is pretty dang huge. You HAVE to have an action open AND range just to compare with the opponent's base craft

Both Systems and Astros are nowhere near as significant as before (other than trajectory v incoming joust meta)

1 minute ago, kraedin said:

Missiles seem especially pointless on the TIE/x1 except for proton rockets. They all let you roll 3 dice if you have a lock... just like the base ship.

Even proton rockets are outshined by advanced proton torpedoes.

Homing Missiles are GREAT.

FCS lets you re-roll one of your dice. So, as long as you don't use your TL, you have dice modification. That's for regular shots and with Missiles. So....even if you are just firing your regular main weapons....and you have the TL....you are getting 3 dice with 1 native mod. If one you get a hit, it turns into a Crit. That's better than just 3 dice. Sure, you have to have the TL and it's all situational, but I wouldn't say it's worse than the T-65.

Also, you can get FCS with the various Missiles to adjust the dice.

All the Missiles have special rules for them. Concussion, Cluster, Ion, etc. They all do something interesting. They get more charges than all Torps. They are also significantly cheaper, too.

I'm not on the same page as you guys.

17 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

FCS lets you re-roll one of your dice. So, as long as you don't use your TL, you have dice modification. That's for regular shots and with Missiles. So....even if you are just firing your regular main weapons....and you have the TL....you are getting 3 dice with 1 native mod. If one you get a hit, it turns into a Crit. That's better than just 3 dice. Sure, you have to have the TL and it's all situational, but I wouldn't say it's worse than the T-65.

Also, you can get FCS with the various Missiles to adjust the dice.

All the Missiles have special rules for them. Concussion, Cluster, Ion, etc. They all do something interesting. They get more charges than all Torps. They are also significantly cheaper, too.

I'm not on the same page as you guys.

Well. Do the math. And then you will be.

Just now, Commander Kaine said:

Well. Do the math. And then you will be.

I've looked at it and I think they are fine.

37 minutes ago, Commander Kaine said:

Well...

What he ^ said.

ATC is not as good as native 3 attack.

3 green dice (without evade) is not as good as +1 health.

System slot is not as good as Droid slot.

The dials are pretty comparable.

7 minutes ago, Commander Kaine said:

Well. Do the math. And then you will be.

Ironic, he could tell others to do the math, but he could not do it himself.

Have you guys actually flown marek yet? Homeboy is good.

I got to watch Marek and 2 blacks destroy wedge and a grey squadron y earlier this week. It was rad.

3 minutes ago, SnooSnarry said:

Ironic, he could tell others to do the math, but he could not do it himself.

Kudos for memes.

You are wrong, though.

25 minutes ago, Commander Kaine said:

Well. Do the math. And then you will be.

Blue Squadron Escort

• 41pts
• +6 for R2 droid
• Total 47 pts

Tempest Squadron Pilot

• 41 pts
• +3 for FCS
• Total 44 pts

Are they really the same cost?

Just now, heychadwick said:

Blue Squadron Escort

• 41pts
• +6 for R2 droid
• Total 47 pts

Tempest Squadron Pilot

• 41 pts
• +3 for FCS
• Total 44 pts

Are they really the same cost?

You also will lose the ability to attack while you regen. So the benefit is marginal.

2 minutes ago, nikk whyte said:

You also will lose the ability to attack while you regen. So the benefit is marginal.

Very true. People talk about the situational ability of the X1 as such a negative, but they don't consider the situational ability of the Boost or the Regen.

X1 and fcs were made to work together.

When marek starts generating crits, the platform can bang.

I'll agree they're a little disappointing. Even at 40 points, a full swarm would be the same cost as FIVE. CARTEL. MARAUDERS. and still have to take TLs for their three-dice attacks, reducing in-game flexibility.

The more I think about it, though, the thing they're really missing is a linked TL > BR action to match the Focus > BR. I think that would make them good, probably even at 41 points. Unfortunately, that seems highly to be added to the ship.

6 hours ago, heychadwick said:

Blue Squadron Escort

• 41pts
• +6 for R2 droid
• Total 47 pts

Tempest Squadron Pilot

• 41 pts
• +3 for FCS
• Total 44 pts

Are they really the same cost?

On the one hand you have 3 attack with optional target lock with full reroll, regen and an extra hull.

On the other hand 3 attack with required target lock but only one reroll, change a hit to a crit and an extra agility. Only 3 points less. That’s 1.5 points in old money. X1 “problem” is it needs a target lock for 3 attack. This is difficult for generics. 1.0 x1 generics with ATC we’re pretty useless; they thrived on Accuracy Corrector (even so I’m NOT advocating a return of AC!). On this basis I think generics are overpriced. Named pilots should be OK. Luckily points can be changed now. We shall see!