1 minute ago, Do I need a Username said:

OR Alex used all the synergy and all of his upgrade cards, while Zach didn't? For all we know, he was actually playing a 185 point list because of that.

Nah, I am not talking about that. Both did pretty bad. But in the end you did see that those TIE-Fighters are just the old TIE-Fighters while the X-Wings got some pretty substantial improvements. Same for the AD, which got not better.

Maybe there are some upgrades which can save those ships. Maybe some of those upgrade cards have some cost issues or where not properly build. But both did not use much of their synergies anyway ... they did showcase stuff, but mostly outside of combat range.

At least Vader looks pretty solid IMO. So far it's the only ship we've seen capable of double-modded shots.

3 minutes ago, SEApocalypse said:

Nah, I am not talking about that. Both did pretty bad. But in the end you did see that those TIE-Fighters are just the old TIE-Fighters while the X-Wings got some pretty substantial improvements. Same for the AD, which got not better.

Maybe there are some upgrades which can save those ships. Maybe some of those upgrade cards have some cost issues or where not properly build. But both did not use much of their synergies anyway ... they did showcase stuff, but mostly outside of combat range.

Username's saying "used his upgrade cards" and "Synergy" in that the rebel list had synergy

compare Two-tubes + two-tubes to Feroph

Feroph with elusiveness...despite his ability...and 1 agility

and Coordinate crew...despite jam

and Krennic crew, which requires target-locks from the krennic ship...despite jam

my god the reaper build is awful

1 minute ago, LordBlades said:

At least Vader looks pretty solid IMO. So far it's the only ship we've seen capable of double-modded shots.

Have not yet seen his action chains.

1 minute ago, ficklegreendice said:

Username's saying "used his upgrade cards" and "Synergy" in that the rebel list had synergy

compare Two-tubes + two-tubes to Feroph

Feroph with elusiveness...despite his ability...and 1 agility

and Coordinate crew...despite jam

and Krennic crew, which requires target-locks...despite jam

my god the reaper build is awful

on this we agree

Evidence suggests that you must abandon the old costing ideas. Vader can be much, much, much more expensive than the other pilots. I think people mentioned that he was essentially 42 points in the old 100 pt version of the game.

4 minutes ago, SEApocalypse said:

Have not yet seen his action chains.

A photo of it from world's appeared on the Mynock FB group last night. You can (presumably) TL, then spend a Force token to Focus and BR if needed.

Only thing I dislike is that, unlike other ships, like Fenn Rau for example, BR is the 2nd linked action. This means you will have to TL, spend Force for Focus and decide to get a stress for a BR before you know for sure if BR will give you range/arc.

58 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

so...

point cost?

do we know them?

no?

well, then. there goes that vital method of comparison

We do know that Vader costs 84 points at launch due to the stream; however, points can change so that means nothing. And, I don't know if it that was Vader + upgrades or Vader as a base 84. Lots of wait and see.

2 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

now, for my money, I'm still not touching a TIE fighter's 3 hull/3 agi *** with even the longest of poles. but they're definitely not the same in this game as in 1.0

what's far more likely than empire being overpriced is us reaching for conclusions from an incredibly limited sample size

I think our sample size at the moment is literally 5 games. TC's Reb vs Imp that ended in a Reb (Dev) win. And today we had Reb vs Imp = Reb (Dev) win, Scum vs Imp = Scum win, Reb vs Imp = Imp (Dev) win, and Reb vs Scum = Scum win.

1 minute ago, LordBlades said:

A photo of it from world's appeared on the Mynock FB group last night. You can (presumably) TL, then spend a Force token to Focus and BR if needed.

Only thing I dislike is that, unlike other ships, like Fenn Rau for example, BR is the 2nd linked action. This means you will have to TL, spend Force for Focus and decide to get a stress for a BR before you know for sure if BR will give you range/arc.

that is 10,000% intentional

it's there to force you to plan ahead instead of just trivially reacting to enemies that move before you

@Animewarsdude the team cov game does not count, by virtue of that reaper build just not working...at all, on any level

1 minute ago, ficklegreendice said:

Feroph with elusiveness...despite his ability...and 1 agility

and Coordinate crew...despite jam

and Krennic crew, which requires target-locks...despite jam

All good points. But do you think having one more TIE-Fighter would have turned the end result? He got basically a free Y-Wing in the first combat turn already.
Those trolls, 90 and 180° turns are hard to catch up, and the two dice attacks still do basically one damage less than 3 dice attacks.

But hey, lets see when they release the points how good or bad it really is.

BTW: http://xwingcalculator.x10host.com/diceuilm.html What happen to the dice calc?

2 minutes ago, SEApocalypse said:

All good points. But do you think having one more TIE-Fighter would have turned the end result? He got basically a free Y-Wing in the first combat turn already.
Those trolls, 90 and 180° turns are hard to catch up, and the two dice attacks still do basically one damage less than 3 dice attacks.

But hey, lets see when they release the points how good or bad it really is.

BTW: http://xwingcalculator.x10host.com/diceuilm.html What happen to the dice calc?

absolutely

a body is huge when you can leverage it to block

I think it's been so long since we've seen a proper game of x-wing that we've largely forgotten how impactful a generic pilot can be when the game isn't just super turrets and hyper PS aces

we have to dig up footage of wave 7 worlds. the MVP of the 2nd place player was a puny little prototype pilot, a PS 1 nobody that held up entire aggressor lists just by being in the right place at the right time

Just now, ficklegreendice said:

that is 10,000% intentional

it's there to force you to plan ahead instead of just trivially reacting to enemies that move before you

I agree, and I like the idea. What I don't like is only following through with some ships. Fenn for example gets Boost/BR first.

oh, that's weaksauce

hopefully the fang will be costed accordingly. it definitely deserves to be more expensive than an Advance at a base level

2 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

oh, that's weaksauce

hopefully the fang will be costed accordingly. it definitely deserves to be more expensive than an Advance at a base level

The good thing about that Fenn card (hopefully hinting at a trend) is that there doesn't seem to be any way to get Boost and BR (killing off double repositioning, probably the reason TIE Advanced has no Boost) or Focus and TL (making ships that can do both special).

11 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

@Animewarsdude the team cov game does not count, by virtue of that reaper build just not working...at all, on any level

I can't remember right off hand but did Zach ever use any of his upgrades on the Reaper? I know he didn't get to use Krenic at all.

8 minutes ago, LordBlades said:

I agree, and I like the idea. What I don't like is only following through with some ships. Fenn for example gets Boost/BR first.

Maybe because the Fang Fighters whole thing is being range 1 right in the arc of their opponent's grill? I think we might find that linked actions will change how some ships fly which should be interesting to see too. And as mentioned we still don't know costing. But, they did mention in the stream today that you couldn't fit Boba, Fenn, and a generic Fang fighter in the list which is why they had Joy there instead due to Fenn being a bit too expensive.

The only costing we know at present is some VERY rough generals based off threat and that is likely for super casual stuff than any kind of hard bit of math. But, taking that in mind Fenn Rau with +1 Hull, Afterburners (free boost even if stressed if you perform a speed 3 or higher maneuver) and Daredevil (Which we don't know the effect of aside from 1.0 guesses) is the same amount of threat as Luke with the following build:

@ficklegreendice I think the Imperial list had synergy. Bad synergy sure, but synergy. the Krennic/mareek combo was designed to be brutal and it never got to trigger because Alex used his synergy to kill mareek fast.

2 minutes ago, Animewarsdude said:

I can't remember right off hand but did Zach ever use any of his upgrades on the Reaper? I know he didn't get to use Krenic at all.

He may have used elusiveness once. Don't recall.

Edit to clarify: I think I baseline agree with both of you, other than I think co-ordinate is better than jam with the rules I have heard so far.

Vader better have a way of regaining Force charges, otherwise i don't see him being very good

Just now, Darth evil said:

Vader better have a way of regaining Force charges, otherwise i don't see him being very good

1 per round, end of the round. He will be either a monster or a paper tiger depending on the player.

1 minute ago, Darth evil said:

Vader better have a way of regaining Force charges, otherwise i don't see him being very good

You regain a Force token at the end of the round.

1 minute ago, Sithborg said:

You regain a Force token at the end of the round.

thank the maker !

3 minutes ago, Do I need a Username said:

1 per round, end of the round. He will be either a monster or a paper tiger depending on the player.

Yea, he could always keep them for an emergency mini-focus for attack or defense or set up for a really big turn and perform four actions. He basically has his old ability but can jump into PTL without a stress if you don't try to link into something.

Just now, Animewarsdude said:

Yea, he could always keep them for an emergency mini-focus for attack or defense or set up for a really big turn and perform four actions. He basically has his old ability but can jump into PTL without a stress if you don't try to link into something.

OR Action+Vader+Link to do your entire bar, and have 2 mini focuses hanging around. Vulnerable next turn however. Either way, fun decisions to be made all around.

Just now, Animewarsdude said:

Yea, he could always keep them for an emergency mini-focus for attack or defense or set up for a really big turn and perform four actions. He basically has his old ability but can jump into PTL without a stress if you don't try to link into something.

and it gives him some die manipulation if he bumps, which was always his glaring weakness(that and Super Turrets)

10 minutes ago, Do I need a Username said:

@ficklegreendice I think the Imperial list had synergy. Bad synergy sure, but synergy. the Krennic/mareek combo was designed to be brutal and it never got to trigger because Alex used his synergy to kill mareek fast.

Edit to clarify: I think I baseline agree with both of you, other than I think co-ordinate is better than jam with the rules I have heard so far.

you know, I never ever imagined we'd see a time where we'd go "dang, if only he had a tie shuttle"

well here's day one of the 2.0 announcement...

also, which jam rules?

He can also trigger his ability to perform an action even if he wiffs with one like a Target Lock or Barrel Roll.