3rd party list-builders are a thing, they support webapps. FFG most likely will offer an webapp as well, furthermore a print out will be avaible for complete offline use and windows/mac will be supported as well (most likely via an webapp).
Lastly the cards offer a quick setup system which has cost listed for complete packages with upgrades, so even a quick game in the boonies with just the cards is no problem at all.

Smartphone use is purely optional and most likely not even ideal, considering how desktop apps work much more efficient. We all here use list builders already, right? ?

I remain particularly interested in the 'quick build' system.

I mean...I need to see more of them, and get a sense of how many FFG plans to put out in packs, or upgrade kits, or whatever, but...

Outside of tournament play (where we all - every one of us - used online squad builders or phone apps already), 99.9% of my play has been casual games where I end up having to build a list for everyone who wants in.

To say - 'okay, let's do a threat-5 game' and just...

*bam*, done?

Yeah, that's good for me. That'll get more X-Wing on the table, more often.

VERY happy with that.

BTW, I think we should move the other thread with the opposite title into this topic. The original title was so misleading ^.^

5 minutes ago, SEApocalypse said:

BTW, I think we should move the other thread with the opposite title into this topic. The original title was so misleading ^.^

Not sure if worthwhile - that thread seems to have devolved into an argument about the level of humanity of people who haven't been assimilated into the collective.

Having a distinct thread pointing out that it's simply not a thing worth arguing about as you don't need to use the app at all...probably a more positive direction to take.

4 hours ago, SEApocalypse said:

3rd party list-builders are a thing, they support webapps. FFG most likely will offer an webapp as well, furthermore a print out will be avaible for complete offline use and windows/mac will be supported as well (most likely via an webapp).
Lastly the cards offer a quick setup system which has cost listed for complete packages with upgrades, so even a quick game in the boonies with just the cards is no problem at all.

Smartphone use is purely optional and most likely not even ideal, considering how desktop apps work much more efficient. We all here use list builders already, right? ?

we do not all use list builders. also this information your saying is contrary to the faq and what others are saying. whats your source?

7 minutes ago, Vontoothskie said:

we do not all use list builders. also this information your saying is contrary to the faq and what others are saying. whats your source?

12:42

Though there was somewhere a marketing picture with listing the app with mac/windows as well. The live stream clarifies the squad builder as a website version avaible as well. So I guess this means linux support as well. ?

13 hours ago, SEApocalypse said:

Though there was somewhere a marketing picture with listing the app with mac/windows as well. The live stream clarifies the squad builder as a website version avaible as well. So I guess this means linux support as well. ?

Sadly, that other thread with the misinformation in it just won't die...

I would like to disassociate myself with the other borgasmically irrelevant thread in order to +1 this one.

It is possible to play 2.0 without a smart phone in hand and I'm all in for smart ideas on how to do so. For my kids sake. Currently, it is much more convenient to play 1.0 without a smart phone than it will be 2.0.

Best idea I've been presented with so far. Apply small, current point cost/upgrade stickers to your card sleeves to enable old school, card browsing, squad build methods.

This as an alternative to the PITA that is referring repeatedly to seperate index sheets (I'm looking at you 40k).

1 hour ago, xanderf said:

Sadly, that other thread with the misinformation in it just won't die...

Let the thread die. Kill if, if you have to.

Or, if you can. (Please.) I would appreciate if that thread died. I started going to the Krayt thread to remember what ‘wholesome’ looked like...

52 minutes ago, Cuz05 said:

I would like to disassociate myself with the other borgasmically irrelevant thread in order to +1 this one.

It is possible to play 2.0 without a smart phone in hand and I'm all in for smart ideas on how to do so. For my kids sake. Currently, it is much more convenient to play 1.0 without a smart phone than it will be 2.0.

Best idea I've been presented with so far. Apply small, current point cost/upgrade stickers to your card sleeves to enable old school, card browsing, squad build methods.

This as an alternative to the PITA that is referring repeatedly to seperate index sheets (I'm looking at you 40k).

I like the sticker idea just fine, but for "casual play", honestly, I expect I'm going to be using the threat-level-based 'quick build' cards 90% of the time. Because why not? You want quick, thematic, Star Wars lists - ready to go, and with upgrades and pilots that work together? Well there they are. I rather expect I'll keep those together in their own binder to just grab them as needed to fill out a list, then pull the pilots and upgrade cards required to play. Quick and easy, gets you X-Wing on the table faster than 1st edition!

54 minutes ago, xanderf said:

I like the sticker idea just fine, but for "casual play", honestly, I expect I'm going to be using the threat-level-based 'quick build' cards 90% of the time. Because why not? You want quick, thematic, Star Wars lists - ready to go, and with upgrades and pilots that work together? Well there they are. I rather expect I'll keep those together in their own binder to just grab them as needed to fill out a list, then pull the pilots and upgrade cards required to play. Quick and easy, gets you X-Wing on the table faster than 1st edition!

Yeah, they do seem a very helpful addition.

Personally though, I'm a hopelessly intractable hipster when it comes to... well, everything. Out of the box lists give me hives. I help my boys building sometimes by giving them a complete list, optimised along one path or another, that they then pick apart and change on unfathomable whims. So perhaps the apples haven't fallen far from the tree

Although I dare say maximum threat level quick builds may just catch their eye....

9 hours ago, xanderf said:

I like the sticker idea just fine, but for "casual play", honestly, I expect I'm going to be using the threat-level-based 'quick build' cards 90% of the time. Because why not? You want quick, thematic, Star Wars lists - ready to go, and with upgrades and pilots that work together? Well there they are. I rather expect I'll keep those together in their own binder to just grab them as needed to fill out a list, then pull the pilots and upgrade cards required to play. Quick and easy, gets you X-Wing on the table faster than 1st edition!

Considering that that's what I am already doing with the first edition ... not sure if it is really bringing ships faster to the table. ?
Though I guess with the new upgrade cards being standard format instead of US-Mini ... it should be more accessible to everyone with standard 9-pocket pages. As the Thread levels seem to be about 25 to 30 point steps, you might as well just assign the complete personalized build thread levels as well to mix and match them within the new quick casual system.

3 minutes ago, SEApocalypse said:

Considering that that's what I am already doing with the first edition ... not sure if it is really bringing ships faster to the table. ?
Though I guess with the new upgrade cards being standard format instead of US-Mini ... it should be more accessible to everyone with standard 9-pocket pages. As the Thread levels seem to be about 25 to 30 point steps in the new level, you might as well just assign the complete personalized build thread levels as well to mix and match them within the new quick casual system.

I don't even think you have to come up with your own threat levels. What we've seen of the app appears to indicate that it will do that for you. (Reminder: in recent interviews, FFG has floated the idea of different upgrades costing different amounts depending on the build - whether or not that's "pure tournament points" I don't know, but certainly it's easier to had a vague 'threat level' adjusted with.)

Presuming that's true...sure, I can see coming up with a few "favorite builds"...with 'threat level' details... to add to the FFG-provided ones and print those out to store with the collection, as options alongside the others.

I assume some enterprising soul will crack the threat level formula and determine what contributes to it so we can create our own quick builds.

Not gonna lie, I wrote off the value of the quick build on first look. Now though, it seems really useful.

43 minutes ago, FlyingAnchors said:

Not gonna lie, I wrote off the value of the quick build on first look. Now though, it seems really useful.

The seem like a good idea. My only concern is that FFG does not have a good track record designing lists. Their sample builds in articles have generally been pretty bad.

Hi all

Longtime lurker, but only very occasional poster here.

I thought about commenting in the other thread, but the level of vitriol from different sides put me off.

I am in the camp that finds the lack of prices on cards to be a big deal, that is likely to significantly effect my enjoyment of the game, to the extent that myself and my regular opponents are considering that we will just keep playing 1.0. I wanted to try to lay out why this is here, because I think some people are just dismissing these concerns, and I wanted to present the combination of reasons/circumstances why this is a non-trivial change for me and the people I play with.

First I should note several things:

(1) The combination of things driving our thoughts on this is probably not common; I don't expect a large fraction of players to share these concerns. In a world defined by markets and profits, it is our take on this that is "wrong" in the sense of not being the majority ☺️

(2) I am not mad at FFG. I think a 2.0 was needed in some ways (particularly from their point of view) and it looks like a genuinely good product. I can also understand why they have this decision regarding points, and I can see that on balance it is probably a good thing for the wider community; it is just a shame for us that this is not what we want. I have no intention of ranting or raving, and I hope it is successful.

So, why is it such a big deal for us?

Firstly, none of me or my opponents have ever used a squad builder. Nor do we see any appeal in doing so. Speaking for myself, I spend enough time looking at screens (I will come to the printable PDFs and quick play version in a moment) in my life. Furthermore, I don't own a smart phone specifically because I spend so much of time in front of my laptop, and I want to be able to just put it down and walk away sometimes. Myself, I also struggle to take in information efficiently on a screen (I even regularly print computer code when I am de-bugging it) because my brain processes the information better that way and I often solve the problem faster. For the same reason, I don't own a kindle etc; they are great inventions, but they don't suit me for recreational reading.

We do not play tournaments, nor do we have any desire to, BUT squad building is an important part of the x-wing experience for us so the quick play is not suitable for us; it is merely throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

So that brings us to the PDFs. If we do decide to play 2.0, this will be the way we do so.

However, building squads with this will require constant cross checking of the pdfs against cards, both for points and for seeing what upgrade options different ships have. I am also concerned that the sheer weight of numbers that could be present on these pdfs will make finding things quite difficult. This will take something that has previously been a fun part of the game for us, into a chore/significantly more hassle.

This is particularly problematic for my most regular opponent, who is far less of a gamer than me. Right now, it is very easy for her to sit down with our card folders, and throw a list together. I fear the barrier of cross checking everything with the pdfs will be a barrier to far, particularly when we have limited free time these days.

So... I hope the above makes sense. I have no plans to lobby FFG or burn down the forums, because I understand what the gains are of doing things this way. And maybe in time we will try 2.0 and the pdfs will be a low enough barrier that we can overcome it. However, I hope to have made enough sense that my concerns are at least seen as legitimate and not tin-pot crazy, even if they are not shared by the majority of the community.

13 hours ago, xanderf said:

I like the sticker idea just fine, but for "casual play", honestly, I expect I'm going to be using the threat-level-based 'quick build' cards 90% of the time. Because why not? You want quick, thematic, Star Wars lists - ready to go, and with upgrades and pilots that work together? Well there they are. I rather expect I'll keep those together in their own binder to just grab them as needed to fill out a list, then pull the pilots and upgrade cards required to play. Quick and easy, gets you X-Wing on the table faster than 1st edition!

Yeah, I really like this idea for building squads with my boys (7 and 9), because trying to build squads with them gets out of hand quickly. As in, they keep adding ship after ship, spiraling into 150 or 200 point squads, when I know they don't have the attention span for that yet. Setting point limits is good, but I think setting threat levels and being able to add the "threat points" together easily will help them to decide on what to play far faster.

So I showed them quickly the new quick build cards, and they are so on board...this might have been a mistake, because I was totally intending to just buy a Core Set and a Galactic Empire Conversion Kit, but now it looks like I've been roped into purchasing a Scum and Villainy Conversion Kit (along with a new Fang Fighter because spinning wings!). Looks like I've got some saving up to do before September.

+1 to truth and justice. Down with (actual) fake news.

-edit - I tried a little something, lets see if it gets us anywhere.

The recent Kessel Run podcast (unless it was Back to Dials? Too many podcasts) gave me the first use of quickbuild cards that got me really excited, a quickbuild draft. The idea of dealing out 3+ quickbuild cards per person and letting them build a threat level X squad for a short tournament from that sounds like it could be really entertaining.

Edit: pretty sure it was Back to Dials that had the Draft Quick Build idea.

17 hours ago, Cuz05 said:

.Currently, it is much more convenient to play 1.0 without a smart phone than it will be 2.0.

Currently I have no desire to play the steaming pile of nonsense that 1.0 x-wing became. Regardless of it’s convenience.

and I highly suspect my games going forward will be using the quick build system unless I really feel like playing a tournament.

The quick build system is far more convenient than building a 1.0 list.

32 minutes ago, mdl0114 said:

The recent Kessel Run podcast (unless it was Back to Dials? Too many podcasts) gave me the first use of quickbuild cards that got me really excited, a quickbuild draft. The idea of dealing out 3+ quickbuild cards per person and letting them build a threat level X squad for a short tournament from that sounds like it could be really entertaining.

Draft Pick with the quickbuild system sounds indeed like a fun way to play the game.

34 minutes ago, SEApocalypse said:

Draft Pick with the quickbuild system sounds indeed like a fun way to play the game.

That actually sounds like a really cool concept!

34 minutes ago, SEApocalypse said:

Draft Pick with the quickbuild system sounds indeed like a fun way to play the game.

Honestly this one of the things I am most hyped for. Additionally, a new player can buy a pack and just pop it open and use the quickbuild card to play something. It may also help with getting ships to the table, as you can just pull out a quickbuild card for that ship and add on to that.

@drDanT I think for you, 1.0 still works just fine. Seriously. Most of the changes for 2.0 are designed to "solve" competitive from what I can tell. I wouldn't hesitate to tell you not to buy in to 2.0 right away (except maybe the damage deck, which might be cool), and just keep playing 1.0. It is a perfectly fine casual game, just with competitive problems. If you decide you want to jump in, quickbuilds also seem fine, just swap things out here and there, or build lists occasionally.

Overall, I think you present some good points, but I also think the squadbuilder being online is necessary for the 20 competitive scene, and for casual list building 1.0 works fine.