I think the reason they have not included more in the kit (asides from cost and making money) is that as they release each wave with old ships there will be new upgrades and poss pilots, these will then be released as card packs for each wave. So in reality we will all end up buying those as if we only get 1 copy of each wave pack we will end up adding 1 to each ship type.

8 hours ago, PenguinBonaparte said:

You know what's a good sell? Being able to actually fly a Tie Swarm again.

I can fly it now without spending $$$ and know exactly how underwhelming it is. When the Xwing fixes were announced I posted the idea that we measure lists by the number of basic ties it would take to beat them in the 1 hour death match.

Iconic list. Powerful out of the box. Almost unstoppable when mastered. Maybe. We’ll have to see- doesn’t look supported yet price or updates.

$100 more and bringing my count to 16 and still not having the components to put them all on the table sounds like they might not be supporting swarmlife.

That and not updating the dial. That is definitely unforeseen and, again, not really looking like it’s a supported archetype.

Just now, Rakky Wistol said:

$100 more and bringing my count to 16 and still not having the components to put them all on the table sounds like they might not be supporting swarmlife.

They've probably moved more towards mini-swarms; the action efficiency of running 8 TIE/LN's is most likely a 1.0 relic that they don't want to revisit.

This, incidentally, is why I would like to add my voice to the growing number of posters who are saying: "Don't buy more than one of each pack!" Running more than 4-5 TIE/LN's, 3 A-wings, 4 X-wings, etc, may be a terrible idea in the new meta. Armada and Legion promote more balanced squad loadouts and I imagine 2.0 will as well.

Given how xwing ships still won't be as differentiated as Armada, I don't think we can say that spamming a 3 die primary will be a bad idea

The more pretenent point is you don't have to dive headlong into 2.0, over-paying on conversion kits because you wantvto run one specific list that sits just outside the kit parameters

If 2.0 does its dang job, we'll have tons of viable squad loadouts

So instead of "oh no 5 xwings!!!" run 3 and a y/u/b/a etc.

Instead of "oh no, five k fighters!" sub in two fangs/vipers/g1-as/Kims/zs/ys what ever you have on hand

No TIE SWARM!?!?! sub in as many Interceptors/strikers/bombers as you can/need

And of you're still frothing for spam, don't just lazily assume you have to buy a whole other kit for like two models. Make trades! Hit up third party sites

You know, put in just a little effort if you're interested in transitioning to a whole new game

13 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

Given how xwing ships still won't be as differentiated as Armada, I don't think we can say that spamming a 3 die primary will be a bad idea

The more pretenent point is you don't have to dive headlong into 2.0, over-paying on conversion kits because you wantvto run one specific list that sits just outside the kit parameters

If 2.0 does its dang job, we'll have tons of viable squad loadouts

So instead of "oh no 5 xwings!!!" run 3 and a y/u/b/a etc.

Instead of "oh no, five k fighters!" sub in two fangs/vipers/g1-as/Kims/zs/ys what ever you have on hand

No TIE SWARM!?!?! sub in as many Interceptors/strikers/bombers as you can/need

And of you're still frothing for spam, don't just lazily assume you have to buy a whole other kit for like two models. Make trades! Hit up third party sites

You know, put in just a little effort if you're interested in transitioning to a whole new game

Pure speculation on my part, but I'm guessing that support ships will become far more important in the game, meaning that for the points, bringing a single crew carrier will be better in a list then 2-3 additional TIE/LN's, a U-wing will be better than 2 A-wings, etc.

At least, that's what I'm hoping. I think Legion did a good job making player require a variety of units to get things done.

support ships do indeed seem like they'll be a big deal

action independent modifiers seems very difficult to come across, as chaining tokens is gone and even stuff like Predator is bullseye only now (also only 1 die and primary weapon only)

super down for these changes, but it does indicate you'll want more support ships in the future

unless you're force sensitive, in which case you provide your own focus free of charge

17 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

Given how xwing ships still won't be as differentiated as Armada, I don't think we can say that spamming a 3 die primary will be a bad idea

The more pretenent point is you don't have to dive headlong into 2.0, over-paying on conversion kits because you wantvto run one specific list that sits just outside the kit parameters

If 2.0 does its dang job, we'll have tons of viable squad loadouts

So instead of "oh no 5 xwings!!!" run 3 and a y/u/b/a etc.

Instead of "oh no, five k fighters!" sub in two fangs/vipers/g1-as/Kims/zs/ys what ever you have on hand

No TIE SWARM!?!?! sub in as many Interceptors/strikers/bombers as you can/need

And of you're still frothing for spam, don't just lazily assume you have to buy a whole other kit for like two models. Make trades! Hit up third party sites

You know, put in just a little effort if you're interested in transitioning to a whole new game

I agreed with you on this point before and I think it bears agreeing with again. Until we know more about the new list-building I'm inclined to think that 6 regular old TIE Fighters is meant to be the limit.

The other thing with the conversion kits is they've likely got a good idea what the folks who play own. These are likely geared so that the average player only needs one kit to bring their stuff into 2nd. Probably between 2 average players 3 kits bring all their odds and ends as well into second. The kits may not be perfect for any one of us in particular but it is highly probable they will be in line for what most players own and in line with what the list building parameters are changing too.

I've said before aside from 2 X-wings and 1 TIE fighter they perfectly cover my collection with lots of stuff left over.

18 minutes ago, Frimmel said:

I've said before aside from 2 X-wings and 1 TIE fighter they perfectly cover my collection with lots of stuff left over.

And since the TIE Fighter dial isn't changing at all, that won't be a problem either, so that just leaves the 2 Xs. So get a Saw's upgrade and a core box, and voila!

7 minutes ago, direweasel said:

And since the TIE Fighter dial isn't changing at all, that won't be a problem either, so that just leaves the 2 Xs. So get a Saw's upgrade and a core box, and voila!

Exactly. One conversion, one core, one Saw's and I'm good for four T-65's in the new edition plus everyone of my other Rebel ships.

As to the TIEs on conversion and one core and I'm good for six and don't fly TIE swarms and generally have the idea that six is going to be the intended limit. 3 X-wings versus 6 TIEs sounds kinda like the game of X-wing I want to play so...

16 hours ago, HolySorcerer said:

The X-Wings got a **** of an upgrade in 2.0, the TIE Fighter got nothing. Perhaps there are some TIE Fighter upgrades we haven't seen yet.

It is going to make u sad but the tie fighter was the original overpowered ship - swarms will be a little less good, they are nerfing them. I think all of us will be a little sad - what have they done to poor Soontir - I used to be able to roll four blanks and get three evades (autos, token and palp) - people are going to be able to hit him now.

4 minutes ago, freakyg3 said:

It is going to make u sad but the tie fighter was the original overpowered ship - swarms will be a little less good, they are nerfing them. I think all of us will be a little sad - what have they done to poor Soontir - I used to be able to roll four blanks and get three evades (autos, token and palp) - people are going to be able to hit him now.

Trade off is that the individual TIE's are now more powerful even if using just them isn't the best way to do it.

10 minutes ago, impspy said:

Trade off is that the individual TIE's are now more powerful even if using just them isn't the best way to do it.

I mean...citation sorely needed

you can say TIEs are more powerfully individually even if using just them isn't the single best way to do it, because they're including plenty of support for a swarm

and really, that's all you're ever going to need especially given how hard it is to get action-independent modifiers in 2.0. Meanwhile, Howlrunner continues to give them out like candy to multiple ships AND (implicitly) even herself

range 0 is confirmed as "ships in base to base" and that a ship is always range 0 of itself (as opposed to range 1)

@ficklegreendice Good point; Howlrunner is still looking like the best TIE leader at the moment for support. Clearly swarms in some form will survive but my guess is you'll want to run a mini swarm of TIE/LN's with support ships or an Ace to get maximum efficiency.

I’ve always felt that Howlrunners ability is arguably miles off thematically. The squadron of Tie fighters that chase the Falcon from Cloud City in Empire (which Howlrunner is supposed to be leading) don’t really feel like a threat IN ANY WAY to the escaping heroes (even if Lando does question back for Luke). I know it’s a cinematic thing to allow us to focus on the Vader/ Luke/ Leia triangle and I still like Howlrunner in game but surely she should be “When shooting at a stationary large base ship rescuing someone from an aerial, turn your attack dice and those of all ships in your squad to blanks”

Yep the empires workhorse does less work again... let’s take that FS-31 away too... no need for that now that we’ve improved upon it. Pay extra for converting on top of it since we give you less... well they have the coffers... swarms are a thing of the past, totally not in faction theme...

The Imperials continue to get less, lose identity, and pay more. 2.0 did not do away with this. Couple with the price tag and you can begin to understand why imperialists at least, CONTINUE to be upset.

I'm really glad I stuck to the idea of buying only one expansion pack.... and then GUNBOATS happened.

8 hours ago, Frimmel said:

Exactly. One conversion, one core, one Saw's and I'm good for four T-65's in the new edition plus everyone of my other Rebel ships.

As to the TIEs on conversion and one core and I'm good for six and don't fly TIE swarms and generally have the idea that six is going to be the intended limit. 3 X-wings versus 6 TIEs sounds kinda like the game of X-wing I want to play so...

Don't forget that the Rebel conversion will have two Sabine's TIE dials. So no extra Imperial pilots, but two more new dials for potentially 8 TIEs (depending on how many Imperial TIE pilot cards there are).

On 5/2/2018 at 1:39 PM, Khyros said:

Hey, lookie there, if we complain enough, our voice can be heard. A first glance shows an extra gunboat and one less Deci, any other changes?

I suspect it was just a typo in the first place, but it doesn't hurt to let them know what we like and don't like.

7 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

I mean...citation sorely needed

you can say TIEs are more powerfully individually even if using just them isn't the single best way to do it, because they're including plenty of support for a swarm

 and really, that's all you're ever going to need especially given how hard it is to get action-independent modifiers in 2.0. Meanwhile, Howlrunner continues to give them out like candy to multiple ships AND (implicitly) even herself

 range 0 is confirmed as "ships in base to base" and that  a ship is always range 0 of itself (as opposed to range 1)

This will make me sooooooo happy. I don't buy the idea that Ties need help vs. X-Wings either. My problems were always unkillable Chewie, or action-stacked ships that could shrug off the attacks, so in this new format I think it'll be brilliant! Although not quite as powerful, I love the idea that crackshot will give a bonus for skill.

7 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

you can say TIEs are more powerfully individually even if using just them isn't the single best way to do it, because they're including plenty of support for a swarm

and really, that's all you're ever going to need especially given how hard it is to get action-independent modifiers in 2.0. Meanwhile, Howlrunner continues to give them out like candy to multiple ships AND (implicitly) even herself

range 0 is confirmed as "ships in base to base" and that a ship is always range 0 of itself (as opposed to range 1)

The MONSTROUS thematic fail of this is going to annoy me a bit.

I mean...the optimum configuration for a TIE squadron is Inferno Leader acting as escort to Obsidian Leader? That's not how an organized squadron works! That's not how any of this works!!

Nothing was better than running Howlrunner with all her Obsidian minions!

3 hours ago, xanderf said:

The MONSTROUS thematic fail of this is going to annoy me a bit.

I mean...the optimum configuration for a TIE squadron is Inferno Leader acting as escort to Obsidian Leader? That's not how an organized squadron works! That's not how any of this works!!

I think the satisfaction of using the poster-child of EA's disastrous business policies as a meatshield for even a bit part from arguably the most beloved movie is well worth the thematic inconsistencies, good sir!

12 hours ago, Frimmel said:

Exactly. One conversion, one core, one Saw's and I'm good for four T-65's in the new edition plus everyone of my other Rebel ships.

As to the TIEs on conversion and one core and I'm good for six and don't fly TIE swarms and generally have the idea that six is going to be the intended limit. 3 X-wings versus 6 TIEs sounds kinda like the game of X-wing I want to play so...

Wait how does that solve anything? If the conversion kit doesn't have enough for me to convert one of my x-wings, buying saw doesn't help: I'd still have one unconverted x-wing. Or does saw come with two x-wing dials?

On 5/2/2018 at 12:47 PM, emmjay said:

Does everyone else notice that the Firespray is no longer Imperial?

Thank God.

I think mini swarms with a support ship and an Ace is going to be the imperial style. Iden can protect your ace early, howlrunner will give a re roll, and the lambda or reaper will provide support.