Just now, Rodrigo Istalindir said:Why? So people can then ***** about having to pay $60 each for the conversion kits, of which they need 6 and now have 6 extra damage decks and 6 extra sets of templates?
Then let us mail in our proofs of purchase and get them. Or hand them out at OP events.
The point is that existing players should not have to have to purchase another core; the core set is for new players.
13 minutes ago, marcnelsonjr said:Then put the rules in the conversion kits. Or give out 2.0 rules, damage decks, and new templates to existing players in then next OP kit.
I agree having a separate core upgrade kit would be good, only including damage decks, templates and tokens required. That would have the side effect of scum, resistance and first order exclusive players to have an actual cheap starting kit.
3 minutes ago, ID X T said:They have discussed having an upgrade path for future waves to allow veterans to collect new cards without having to buy new ship packs. They are not discussing the details of the upgrade path yet, but it will exist.
thats a lot of faith to place in a for profit corporation.
its worth remembering that they have obviously planned this for many months and said nothing to the retailers who just bought essentially outdated stock. **** they even reprinted the outdated ships and shipped them out within the timeframe they knew the X-wing 1.0 was ending.
unless they include a medium base for every ship in theses conversions, theyre screwing us. and unless they give players free copies of the revised cards they already own, theyre screwing us.
i suppose the best arguement for an app is if the make all cards free in the app so that you can play anything available, but that may not be the case
imagine if you need to buy a second raider to get palpatine, etc
1 hour ago, D34d guru said:Lol troll ... Use , . And a dictionairy... Go to school and stay there.
At least Blod can spell dictionary.
4 minutes ago, Vontoothskie said:thats a lot of faith to place in a for profit corporation.
its worth remembering that they have obviously planned this for many months and said nothing to the retailers who just bought essentially outdated stock. **** they even reprinted the outdated ships and shipped them out within the timeframe they knew the X-wing 1.0 was ending.
unless they include a medium base for every ship in theses conversions, theyre screwing us. and unless they give players free copies of the revised cards they already own, theyre screwing us.
i suppose the best arguement for an app is if the make all cards free in the app so that you can play anything available, but that may not be the case
imagine if you need to buy a second raider to get palpatine, etc
The Reaper and Saw's Renegades are essentially hybrid products with 1.0 and 2.0 support. All previous stuff, yeah very outdated.
I hope besides ending cross-faction upgrades requirements, they also stop printing huge ships with essential upgrade cards, because buying huge ships for a few cards is an even worse offender than having cross faction stuff. At least with cross faction stuff you are buying tournament legal ships you can use... with huge ships you are essentially buying expensive plastic that becomes worthless for cheap cards that become disproportionately more expensive.
I would also like to see Palp in the conversion kit instead of him coming in a huge ship. Please FFG stop forcing standard only players to keep buying huge products, or make huge products standard legal. I would also love to see Palp using force tokens exactly like Vader. Accumulate up to 3, you can spend up to 3 in a turn, but only regenerate 1 per turn.
1 hour ago, marcnelsonjr said:Then put the rules in the conversion kits.
That would make the conversion kits more expensive. I'd prefer to pay for those extra components only once instead of five times.
2 hours ago, falveryn said:
Will I upgrade? I have to, because I'm so heavily invested in, it is still cheaper to upgrade than to switch to another collectible competitive game.
The sunk cost fallacy at its finest.
You don’t HAVE to upgrade. This is the very definition of a 1st world problem!
Playing collective competitive miniature games is about as far from a human necessity as it’s possible to get.
Just keep playing XWMG v1.0. Added cost is exactly zero.
Your models and cards are going nowhere. Casual play is going nowhere.
Playing the latest competitive miniature games is an expensive hobby you’ve CHOSEN to partake in. You can choose to save your money or not
well, you have to upgrade to play 2.0 (if you want to)
you do not have to upgrade EVERYTHING
5 hours ago, D34d guru said:So... 2*a wing means 2complete sets off the booster?
Probably only one copy of each named pilot but 2 expansions worth of generics.
Of all the possible ways to make a 2.0, ffg has done the very best possible option.
Everyone cries “we need 2.0” until there’s a 2.0, now it’s “this is a ripoff”.
2 hours ago, Vontoothskie said:thats a lot of faith to place in a for profit corporation.
its worth remembering that they have obviously planned this for many months and said nothing to the retailers who just bought essentially outdated stock. **** they even reprinted the outdated ships and shipped them out within the timeframe they knew the X-wing 1.0 was ending.
unless they include a medium base for every ship in theses conversions, theyre screwing us. and unless they give players free copies of the revised cards they already own, theyre screwing us.
i suppose the best arguement for an app is if the make all cards free in the app so that you can play anything available, but that may not be the case
imagine if you need to buy a second raider to get palpatine, etc
I would like you to imagine, for a moment, that FFG had announced that 2E was a complete do-over. No conversion kits. Everyone starts from scratch.
That's what they would do if they were the ruthless for-profit corporation you make them out to be. And, yes, I have enough faith in them that I believe they will deliver on their promises, because they know exactly how pissed off the playerbase will be if they go back on the promise of not having to rebuy ships.
(For the record: I think it was mentioned on stream today that Palpatine is in the conversion kit. And they will also have medium bases.)
Edited by fhdz2 hours ago, Vontoothskie said:thats a lot of faith to place in a for profit corporation.
its worth remembering that they have obviously planned this for many months and said nothing to the retailers who just bought essentially outdated stock. **** they even reprinted the outdated ships and shipped them out within the timeframe they knew the X-wing 1.0 was ending.
unless they include a medium base for every ship in theses conversions, theyre screwing us. and unless they give players free copies of the revised cards they already own, theyre screwing us.
i suppose the best arguement for an app is if the make all cards free in the app so that you can play anything available, but that may not be the case
imagine if you need to buy a second raider to get palpatine, etc
That old stock is going to sell if they are ships that are good and won’t get a 2.0 release for awhile. I imagine that even new players may be interested in picking up 1.0 ships and a conversion kit to get stuff they want before it gets rereleased.
46 minutes ago, Suhawk75 said:The sunk cost fallacy at its finest.
You don’t HAVE to upgrade. This is the very definition of a 1st world problem!
Playing collective competitive miniature games is about as far from a human necessity as it’s possible to get.
Just keep playing XWMG v1.0. Added cost is exactly zero.
Your models and cards are going nowhere. Casual play is going nowhere.
Playing the latest competitive miniature games is an expensive hobby you’ve CHOSEN to partake in. You can choose to save your money or not
Perfectly stated! Version 2.0 is a new game that in the end will cost similar amounts of cash to achieve equal results you had achieved in Version 1.0. Just because you played and collected Version 1.0 does not entitle you to gain free admission into Version 2.0. It doesn't work that way....its called a capitalistic society where money is to be made by a BUSINESS by providing a service, entertainment, or product and in this case a luxury item. Only you can determine what your 1.0 collection is worth...if you thought this would be an investment or retain value long term you should not be playing or purchasing these types of sunken cost games. The only tangible value your collection has is the enjoyment YOU received from collecting it or playing it or choosing to hold onto it. If you feel you wasted money and your 1.0 collection is of no value to YOU then do not continue to make the same purchasing mistakes with Version 2.0 or any other collectable game.
2 minutes ago, DesignXception said:Perfectly stated! Version 2.0 is a new game that in the end will cost similar amounts of cash to achieve equal results you had achieved in Version 1.0. Just because you played and collected Version 1.0 does not entitle you to gain free admission into Version 2.0. It doesn't work that way....its called a capitalistic society where money is to be made by a BUSINESS by providing a service, entertainment, or product and in this case a luxury item. Only you can determine what your 1.0 collection is worth...if you thought this would be an investment or retain value long term you should not be playing or purchasing these types of sunken cost games. The only tangible value your collection has is the enjoyment YOU received from collecting it or playing it or choosing to hold onto it. If you feel you wasted money and your 1.0 collection is of no value to YOU then do not continue to make the same purchasing mistakes with Version 2.0 or any other collectable game.
Even in a capitalistic society (especially in a capitalistic society) you want to encourage brand loyalty and often offer benefits to existing customers.
15 minutes ago, Jadotch said:Even in a capitalistic society (especially in a capitalistic society) you want to encourage brand loyalty and often offer benefits to existing customers.
FFG has done that by offering the Conversion Kits. Ask Game of Thrones LCG version 1.0 players what they got when the Second Edition launched a few years ago. (Hint: there was no Conversion kits)
4 minutes ago, DesignXception said:FFG has done that by offering the Conversion Kits. Ask Game of Thrones LCG version 1.0 players what they got when the Second Edition launched a few years ago. (Hint: there was no Conversion kits)
And how many customers did they loose?
hint: more than a few.
Edited by Jadotch40 minutes ago, DesignXception said:Perfectly stated! Version 2.0 is a new game that in the end will cost similar amounts of cash to achieve equal results you had achieved in Version 1.0.
with the conversion kits?
if we're going full retail costs, buying stand-alone expacs to cover conversion kit content would run you...uh...
3 – A-wing
2 – Auzituck Gunship
2 – B-wing
2 – E-wing
2 – HWK-290
2 –
Phantom I
2 –
Phantom II
2 – Sabine’s TIE Fighter
2 – X-wing
2 – Y-wing
4 – Z-95 Headhunter
[25 small]
2 – ARC-170
2 – K-wing
2 – U-wing
[6 medium]
2 –
Ghost
2 –
Millennium Falcon
2 – YT-2400
[6 large]
well 25 small ships at the presumed $20 per X-wing 2.0 small ship is $500 (10 times the price of the box for just the small ships). Since even the lowly TIE Fighter is $20, im assuming even the smaller small ships will be $20 as well.
Now, lets say you paid retail for just 12 small ships ($15 a pop) for $180 total, and you're paying an extra $50 to convert them for $230 total . 12 small ships in 2.0 ($20 ea) is $240 .
These 12 ships could be 2 Xs, 2 Ys, 2 Bs, 2 Auzzies, an E, a HWK, and 2 A/Zs. ie you can easily reach 12 ships without doing something silly like multiple phantoms.
So you're profiting slightly if you're using the conversion kit on just the 12 small ships, rather than buying those 12 straight up. Granted, this isn't perfect because you're not spamming specific ships in large quantities, but it's a good bit of perspective.
point is, I think you're spending way less to get into 2.0 than you did to get into 1.0. Even if you just compare converting 1.0 small ships instead of just being 2.0 small ships, you're probably paying less (provided you're buying within the confines of a box, and not like 5 x-wings). so idk, I can't even view it as buying another game. I'm definitely getting a lot more with my collection + kit than I would if I had to just start over (probably even after selling my collection at an inevitable loss).
note: not factoring in the core set as part of the cost to convert, as you'll have to buy the core whether you're converting or not
Edited by ficklegreendice1 minute ago, Jadotch said:And how many customers did they loose?
hint: more than a few.
They also gained a lot too....its still a very popular game hence why they still support it and are cranking out new expansions on a consistent basis. If the player support wasn't there they would have canned it like the Star Wars LCG. My point is all of these collectable games have a relatively short shelf life and will either end or be rebooted into a newer version rendering your current collection what many would consider "worthless". They are sunken cost items and not an investment. By the negative and irate comments that consistently pop-up on forums when this happens whether its a CCG, LCG, miniatures game, or RPG reboot, people seem to not understand the economics involved and the sense of entitlement looms large.
Quick answer: no. An entire revised experience at just over $1 per ship? It's a pretty good deal and there are a number of things they did, like including new content in the conversion kit, that shows they're doing what they can to reduce the load as much as possible.
7 hours ago, heychadwick said:That's right. The upgrade kits will have ALL the pilots for each ship. The blisters WILL NOT have pilots or upgrades missing in the upgrade kit.
Can anyone confirm this is also the case for Saw's Renegades pack?
I don't want to get one just for the pilots/cardboard. I won't need any more X-wings, nor a second U-wing (I prefer the original paintjob, anyway).
31 minutes ago, Mef82 said:Can anyone confirm this is also the case for Saw's Renegades pack?
I don't want to get one just for the pilots/cardboard. I won't need any more X-wings, nor a second U-wing (I prefer the original paintjob, anyway).
That is an interesting question. I'm not super into the paint-job anyway, though I guess I'll be kind of curious to get some early 2.0....
They have said that the conversion kits will include everything you get from the individual expansions for all current 1.0 ships. Existing players will not need to buy any expansions for ships they already own in order to get pilots and/or upgrade cards. They are in the conversion kits.
What will we need to buy? New ship expansions, which will no doubt begin as early as wave 2, which introduces the Resistance and First Order into 2.0 as standalone factions. I can't believe that they're going to let those two factions exist with only three/four ships each for very long. I'm also willing to bet that within a year we'll see announcements for additional factions, most likely Clone War era stuff. Those expansions will bring all-new pilots and upgrades as well.
It would be a deal breaker for me if the expansions for existing ships contain pilots and upgrades that aren't in the conversion kits.
Edited by pkreynolds4 hours ago, ID X T said:They have discussed having an upgrade path for future waves to allow veterans to collect new cards without having to buy new ship packs. They are not discussing the details of the upgrade path yet, but it will exist.
thats a lot of faith to place in a for profit corporation.
its worth remembering that they have obviously planned this for many months and said nothing to the retailers who just bought essentially outdated stock. **** they even reprinted the outdated ships and shipped them out within the timeframe they knew the X-wing 1.0 was ending.
unless they include a medium base for every ship in theses conversions, theyre screwing us. and unless they give players free copies of the revised cards they already own, theyre screwing us.
i suppose the best arguement for an app is if the make all cards free in the app so that you can play anything available, but that may not be the case
imagine if you need to buy a second raider to get palpatine, etc
Weirdly enough, and I loathe corporations, FFG has earned my trust. The customer-service interactions I've had with them all the way down to the guys at the game center have really convinced me that they're different than most. Not everything'll be perfect, but unlike other companies, WizKids, for example, they do their best to respond to and support their community.
I don't really get this.
So I buy a few conversion kits and convert everything over, but the conversion kits don't contain all the pilots and upgrades that are coming out in future packs. So e.g. I get N a-wings with maybe 2 pilots each instead of say 4 each. To get the remaining pilots, I have to purchase the mini conversion kit that comes out when the a-wing comes out. So assuming I want everything, what is the point of the original conversion kit? Wouldn't I be better buying N mini conversion kits for my N a-wings, so that I can have N copies of every pilot available for the a-wing?
It all sounds like it's going to be VERY expensive.
I'm probably in at some level, but I think proxies are going to have to be involved. Anyway, it's still early days, FFG needs to be much clearer on their plans and pricing before I commit much.