3 hours ago, Norsehound said:

I'm betting one of the reasons a vsd-I has gotten this far with that loadout is because he's high-bid second player designed to crush raddus nesting dolls.

Much as I'd like to see this as proof vsds can cut it in the current meta, I think it's this far because it's a counter play against the predominant archetype of the event. I'd like to see how he played against twin isds.

Well actually he has been running vsd since he won Canadian nationals 2016. And has been consistently successful with it. And he never had to face twin isds as none of them got near him in points.

1 minute ago, Boston1809 said:

I don't think that was the case, I was told we started with 34, although when the points-based sheets were put up, there were a significant number of 0 points listed. I think those were people with Day 1A tickets who did not show up, NOT drops after one round. In fact, I think very few people dropped at all. I could be completely wrong, but my understanding is that the grey-ed out point list is misleading in terms of who dropped/stayed.

My guess here is that if someone didn't check in and didn't get his participation prizes, he wouldn't be on that list.

1 minute ago, PT106 said:

My guess here is that if someone didn't check in and didn't get his participation prizes, he wouldn't be on that list.

You got me, I'm just passing on what I was told when several people were asking the same question. I would be shocked given the positive attitudes and general good mood in the room if anyone had dropped after 1 round. But maybe I'm still on a 4-games-of-Armada-in-a-Day-high...

1 hour ago, Vergilius said:

exactly how many changes can be made to a list before it should really be considered a new build or archetype

Didn't claim either in the original post, you are reading too much into this because you know someone who took Haven-aces to worlds back in the day and now you are white knighting.

It explains the attitude.

Also two players from different geographical areas can come up with similar ideas independently. Rebel aces is very popular and I've seen it win local tournaments(before November 2016), so you better be sure about your claim that this archetype was originated by your friend ;). (... in case its not clear i'm just teasing you in that last bit)

Simply my point was, the specific build was first played by Yik locally, he beat all-comers, and the list kept winning when others played it. They took it to worlds in basically the same state as when it was first played, it won. No-one outside was running that exact list. So, it seems accurate to say he originated the specific list that won. I was also just doing some fun cheer-leading to support the guy with no intent to offend.

Essentially the point is he found i.m.o the most efficient list to break the game at the time given the meta and tools available. In other words, build A of gallant haven aces can be vastly better then build B. You seem to agree with this, so your argument is mostly based on your association with some person that you feel was somehow short changed by my initial post.

5 minutes ago, Boston1809 said:

I would be shocked given the positive attitudes and general good mood in the room if anyone had dropped after 1 round.

My theory is that there were people that dropped before (or during) 1st round and didn't play any games (as they were looking for a ticket into XWing side events or an extra prize wall ticket). I don't expect anything like this from actual Armada players.

1 minute ago, PT106 said:

My theory is that there were people that dropped before (or during) 1st round and didn't play any games (as they were looking for a ticket into XWing side events or an extra prize wall ticket). I don't expect anything like this from actual Armada players.

That theory is very reasonable, makes a lot of sense, and makes me super sad. I hope not, but you're almost certainly right. I know a bunch of local MSP players weren't able to get tickets (in addition to all the other people elsewhere who wanted tickets and didn't get them) so that's a bummer if those people never intended to play.

37 minutes ago, Girshin said:

Simply my point was, the specific build was first played by Yik locally, he beat all-comers, and the list kept winning when others played it. They took it to worlds in basically the same state as when it was first played, it won. No-one outside was running that exact list. So, it seems accurate to say he originated the specific list that won.

Essentially the point is he found i.m.o the most efficient list to break the game at the time given the meta and tools available. In other words, build A of gallant haven aces can be vastly better then build B. You seem to agree with this, so your argument is mostly based on your association with some person that you feel was somehow short changed by my initial post.

I'm an academic by trade, so precision in argumentation is one of my specialties. Your first paragraph above is a splendid correction to your earlier post.

My claims are a matter of public record and backed up pretty thoroughly by that record, and to be fair, I interpreted your post as doing exactly what you describe me as doing, and your response as having "an attitude" that you're attributing to me, or at least an air of presumptuousness. In any event, I'm not one who likes getting drawn into long debates on a topic that is really tangential to the thread at hand, and since you do admit playfully teasing me a bit in that last post, then I suppose we're good here.

By all means, cheer on the local guy! I'm all for that.

Thanks for the reporting Biggs and all, and good luck tomorrow!

1 hour ago, Mogrok said:

Well actually he has been running vsd since he won Canadian nationals 2016. And has been consistently successful with it. And he never had to face twin isds as none of them got near him in points.

Good to hear he's having success with it, though just because none of those lists have scored near him doesn't mean twin Cymoons can't vaporize what he brought to the table. If his opponents have been nothing but Raddus nesting dolls (which, again, I suspect he's designed to beat)- then of course it'll be smooth sailing. I want to know what he'd do against twin Cymoons if they choose second player.

5 hours ago, Norsehound said:

I'm betting one of the reasons a vsd-I has gotten this far with that loadout is because he's high-bid second player designed to crush raddus nesting dolls.

Much as I'd like to see this as proof vsds can cut it in the current meta, I think it's this far because it's a counter play against the predominant archetype of the event. I'd like to see how he played against twin isds.

He's been winning with VSDs for as long as I've known him to play Armada, at least 2 years. They see a lot of play around here and do very well, even more so with JJerod.

Whether or not some people signed up for armada just to drop and enter non armada side events to play or farm tickets is not the issue.... The issue is that it is even possible to do so in the first place! Can't tell you how disheartening it is to think that your worlds tournament may have been hijacked by chiselers, sneak thieves, and fiddling bens seeking to cash in at the expense of armada hardcores.

2 hours ago, Mogrok said:

Well actually he has been running vsd since he won Canadian nationals 2016. And has been consistently successful with it. And he never had to face twin isds as none of them got near him in points.

Dual ISDs were close, one set took third. That one was well within striking distance. I won’t dispute being a well made list with a keen eye for the meta, but I’ll still keep my stock in Imperial-class hulls.

1 hour ago, Norsehound said:

Good to hear he's having success with it, though just because none of those lists have scored near him doesn't mean twin Cymoons can't vaporize what he brought to the table. If his opponents have been nothing but Raddus nesting dolls (which, again, I suspect he's designed to beat)- then of course it'll be smooth sailing. I want to know what he'd do against twin Cymoons if they choose second player.

Stop being a miserable so and so Norse

On 5/1/2018 at 8:03 AM, Ginkapo said:

Last Fact

Today @JJs Juggernaut wins 34% of his games by turning up. 17% in list building. 21% in deployment. And 94% with pure determination power and will.

So what do people think happened to the Imperials today? Was it just that all the best players went Rebs or were there top names there using Imps that just didn't make the cut? Seems like year after year the imps just don't get through but I'm not big on the North American meta so I'm not sure if that's just normal?

55 minutes ago, beefcake4000 said:

So what do people think happened to the Imperials today? Was it just that all the best players went Rebs or were there top names there using Imps that just didn't make the cut? Seems like year after year the imps just don't get through but I'm not big on the North American meta so I'm not sure if that's just normal?

what lists are going to play the top?

Congrats to all the players!

Brilliant reporting Biggs - thanks very much!

This stuff really maintains the community

- I assume someone will post an in depth review but from my notes, in the top 4 tables at various times we had:

- Jerry VSD, Arq, Demo, Squad ball

- Thrawn ISD2, Arq, Goz, Squad ball

- Raddus, 2 x Hammer scout, hammer torp, CR90, MC75 ordnance shara tycho

- Vader ISD2, Cymoon, Goz, Goz

- Motti ISD/Demo/Squads

- Rieekan 6 ship + Squads

- Sloane Quasar, Interdictor, goz, squad ball

- Raddus CR90, 2 Floater, Mc75 with hammerhead, YT2400s

- Screed BT Avenger, Demo, Kuat

- GARM! 2 AF2B carrier, 2 x Floater

- Raddus MC75 Ordnace, CR90, Floater, 7 x YT2400s and Jan

So I count 6 Imps 5 rebels (I think I missed a couple).

In the key matchups Rebel vs Imperial, Rebels won, exception being Andrews Sloan Quasar/Interdictor that took down JJ.

When Imps played Imps, neither seemed to get a big enough win to compete with the big wins Raddus was getting

7 hours ago, Norsehound said:

Good to hear he's having success with it, though just because none of those lists have scored near him doesn't mean twin Cymoons can't vaporize what he brought to the table. If his opponents have been nothing but Raddus nesting dolls (which, again, I suspect he's designed to beat)- then of course it'll be smooth sailing. I want to know what he'd do against twin Cymoons if they choose second player.

Was there even anybody running double Cymoon?

29 minutes ago, svelok said:

Was there even anybody running double Cymoon?

From the reports, I have not heard anyone talking about double Cymoon. I kind of wonder if they were afraid of the Raddus build? I'm not as familiar with the match up.

Is @BiggsIRL going to do 1b coverage? Because that was amazing and alot of fun. Unless he's playing today.. then.. someone else equally qualified should keep us all informed!

19 hours ago, Truthiness said:

When the **** was that? And who the **** was that? And most importantly, can I get some of what they were smoking? Sounds like a **** of a drug.

I was one of those players. I was wrong...so very wrong...wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong....

good luck todays players!

16 minutes ago, durandal343 said:

Is @BiggsIRL going to do 1b coverage? Because that was amazing and alot of fun. Unless he's playing today.. then.. someone else equally qualified should keep us all informed!

He (and I, for that matter) are playing today.

Chomping at the bit to see what the Comms Noise crew are running - good luck guys, hoping to see some of the South West UK meta on the top tables today,

19 hours ago, Truthiness said:

When the **** was that? And who the **** was that? And most importantly, can I get some of what they were smoking? Sounds like a **** of a drug.

Yeah that was probably us at the start of the Wave. We're just bad. We know he's good now.