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Why are there no point costs or upgrade slots printed on cards?

The X-Wing squad-builder app will track the point value of all ships and upgrades, allowing for fast and accurate squad-building. Points will adjust based on the type of game that you are playing, and the cost of a card could vary under very specific criteria. For example, an upgrade card may cost more for one ship to equip than another ship. The X-Wing squad builder app will also track which upgrades a ship is allowed to equip at any given time.

How will the squad building app work?

The X-Wing squad builder lets you build a custom squadron by explaining the rules of squad-point building and enforcing those rules so that you do not accidentally build an illegal squad. The app also tracks how many copies of each expansion you own, helping you know whether you can build a squadron that you create. In addition, the squad builder will track the point costs and upgrade slots for all ship cards and upgrade cards, allowing the Organized Play team and the development team to create new and unique ways for you to experience the game!

Not only does the X-Wing squad builder app enable fast, accurate list-building, the versatility of the X-Wing squad builder app means that it will be easy to support multiple styles of play. No matter where your games take you, the squad builder can be used to create specific types of games that test all of your squad-building abilities. The point costs or upgrade slots available to certain ships could be easily adjusted by the developers or the Organized Play team for the course of a single event, a series of tournaments, or long-term for the ongoing health of the game.

Certain ships, ship cards, and upgrade cards may rotate in and out of tournament legality, giving the Organized Play team an opportunity to create unforgettable and unique tournaments. You can even use the X-Wing squad builder app to create your own custom games if you’re playing at home or running your own tournament in a local store! By restricting certain cards, you can create a tournament that’s as unique as the game experience you want to explore.

Do I have to use the squad builder app?

While the X-Wing squad builder is best for players who want full control over their pilots and upgrades, you can also play a match using the Quick Build cards included in the Core Set. This mode of play lets you easily create a squadron using predefined selections. Each Quick Build card consists of a ship card, a number of upgrade cards, and a threat level from one to five. To play a match using Quick Build cards, players must agree to a particular threat level. Then, both players build their squadron by choosing a combination of Quick Build options that add up to that threat level.

For freeform building and tournament play, however, the X-Wing squad builder app is an essential part of the X-Wing Second Edition experience.

So, I spend a ton of money to buy a physical product that isn't even a complete game. It's the building blocks for a game that requires online support.

Then, I can't use the official supporting material to build squads that aren't of illegal point value?? I'm always stuck playing Official Tournament X-Wing unless I build all of my squads by hand with a print-out?

When they rotate a ship out of tournament legality, I have to build any kitchen table squad I want with that ship by hand?

I can't save squads because they might be illegal this/next season because X-Wings added/dropped torpedoes??

More than ever, thanks to the convenience of the app and inconvenience of not being able to use it, am I subject to the whims of the tournament scene?

If I understood the Hyperspace Report you can make your own squad building rules within the app.

I'd also be very surprised if there are no third party squad builders for non-tournament players.

I am not sure if it is possible to predict if squads may be saved or it will be possible to create custom formats. I hope both will be implemented. My friends and I never play "normal" tournament mode but custom formats and if the app won't allow this we just can't play x-wing V2. But I think FFG is aware of this since I assume (yet not bein sure) that there are more casual-players out there than tournament players.

The app is not what I had wished for too but I agree with the points mentioned by FFG. But since the cards are (hopefully) still placed on the table I will have to arrange with that.

You can always download PDF versions of things if you want to lock things in a certain way. I also recall hearing you have the ability to make a special event at your local store and can make your own thing?

You highlighted things above as negative, but I consider them positive items.

I see the OP team looking to make stories or campaigns for events. You can have special characters or special upgrades for these events. It sounds really exciting to me at all the possibilities.

If you can't save squads in the squad builder it's not fit for purpose. I'd be utterly astonished if it doesn't have a save function.

3 minutes ago, shadowfriend said:

I am not sure if it is possible to predict if squads may be saved or it will be possible to create custom formats. I hope both will be implemented. My friends and I never play "normal" tournament mode but custom formats and if the app won't allow this we just can't play x-wing V2. But I think FFG is aware of this since I assume (yet not bein sure) that there are more casual-players out there than tournament players.

The app is not what I had wished for too but I agree with the points mentioned by FFG. But since the cards are (hopefully) still placed on the table I will have to arrange with that.

Yeah, another peeve if that is the case.

I liked making my squads and printing the roster. I never looked at my cards; they are buried in the wayback of my closet.

@Darth Meanie

I'm not sure this is a bad move, though.

• Knowing your particular playground for X-Wing, 1.0 is still a valid option (not a slight - it really is a valid option and not a bad game in your controlled environment.)
• The online cost changes help in those 'whoops' moments if when FFG misses something and releases a ship that isn't correctly balanced
• Balance impacts home usage as well, though not as bad when you and your opponent have a gentleman's agreement.
• I wouldn't expect daily changes to point costs... While technically possible, they aren't going to be updating things that quickly

Sorry the app is one of the best things to come to 2.0 I play infinity where 99% of all list building is using their online app. No one for that game prints out the pdfs and writes them by hand. Being able to have balance corrections without buying new packs is incredibly nice and 100% worth it.

I got into XWM for the long game. I plan to be playing casual games in 20 years when I retire. Will there still be app/website support then, after everyone has moved on from the game altogether?

There's something to be said for actual, physical product. You can store it in your closet. It's not on a server somewhere that may be shut down some day, leaving you hoping the community continues online support for a dead game.

There are quick start buildouts in the packs too.

Reading about the app makes me think they can gave special characters show up or that during some global campaign some characters can die. Or....if week 1 had Rebels lose the Resupply mission, they can't take torpedoes after that.

Remember Assault on Imdaar Alpha? What if that was a storied event? How cool would it be if there are global campaigns were reported results progress the story? I'm all in!

There's no change that makes everyone happy.

In the long run this has far more posititves than negatives.

4 minutes ago, weisguy119 said:

I got into XWM for the long game. I plan to be playing casual games in 20 years when I retire. Will there still be app/website support then, after everyone has moved on from the game altogether?

There's something to be said for actual, physical product. You can store it in your closet. It's not on a server somewhere that may be shut down some day, leaving you hoping the community continues online support for a dead game.

They stated you will be able to download a PDF version of the list at any point. You will be able to download that and save it for years. That would be a physical and/or soft copy you can use after the fall of civilization.

4 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

You can always download PDF versions of things if you want to lock things in a certain way. I also recall hearing you have the ability to make a special event at your local store and can make your own thing?

You highlighted things above as negative, but I consider them positive items.

I see the OP team looking to make stories or campaigns for events. You can have special characters or special upgrades for these events. It sounds really exciting to me at all the possibilities.

I am grappling to understand what it will mean to buy a "game" that isn't complete.

2 minutes ago, LagJanson said:

@Darth Meanie

I'm not sure this is a bad move, though.

• Knowing your particular playground for X-Wing, 1.0 is still a valid option (not a slight - it really is a valid option and not a bad game in your controlled environment.)
• The online cost changes help in those 'whoops' moments if when FFG misses something and releases a ship that isn't correctly balanced
• Balance impacts home usage as well, though not as bad when you and your opponent have a gentleman's agreement.
• I wouldn't expect daily changes to point costs... While technically possible, they aren't going to be updating things that quickly

I'm not sure, either.

2.0 is here whether I like it or not.

But it's not the same game. I am at Ground Zero about whether to buy a new, very expensive game, or whether my hobby dollars should go elsewhere.

One thing I hated the most about XWM 1.0 is how everything revolved around tournaments and the meta. 2.0 seems a move closer to that point, not away.

And the notion that "we don't even actually know the point cost of anything until it hits play, so we need to be able to change the game on the fly" doesn't sound like an aim at better designing.

My current feeling about everything is that I am going to walk away for a year or two, play 1.0 with my brother, and check back later. What I am trying to do right now is gather the info I need to make a decision.

Right now, if I could program, I would build my own dang app, fill it with 1.0 and homebrew, and add back 2.0 stuff I thought was cool.

2 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

Reading about the app makes me think they can gave special characters show up or that during some global campaign some characters can die. Or....if week 1 had Rebels lose the Resupply mission, they can't take torpedoes after that.

Remember Assault on Imdaar Alpha? What if that was a storied event? How cool would it be if there are global campaigns were reported results progress the story? I'm all in!

I don't think they have capacity to add content via the app, but it definitely seems like they can take it away. They could definitely do that in some sort of global campaign

9 minutes ago, Babaganoosh said:

I don't think they have capacity to add content via the app, but it definitely seems like they can take it away. They could definitely do that in some sort of global campaign

They can give out pilot cards as participation prizes like they do now, but just give them out at the start instead of the end.

You can download a PDF of costs once and forget the app exists if you want. Or use the built in build suggestions. There are always options.

we live in a day where everybody uses the internet on a regular basis.
If requiring online access is an issue, you shouldnt even be buying miniature games you should be paying other bills. I know several people that cant afford internet so they use some public wifi if they need something, these people also never buy into any games because they simply cant afford it. I play boardgames with them alot because i own the game anyway and just need players.

As a casual player, I think this will be kind of cool! And it's probably been said but we can use the program on our computer too, so we don't have to use a Smartphone if we don't want to.

I wish they would do something like this for Star Wars: Legion!

1 minute ago, Vineheart01 said:

we live in a day where everybody uses the internet on a regular basis.
If requiring online access is an issue, you shouldnt even be buying miniature games you should be paying other bills. I know several people that cant afford internet so they use some public wifi if they need something, these people also never buy into any games because they simply cant afford it. I play boardgames with them alot because i own the game anyway and just need players.

Not only that, but I'm almost 100% sure you don't actually have to be online if you have it on your phone or tablet. You probably just need to be online for updates.

One thing we're going to have to get used to is the "Oh Crap my squad isn't legal anymore!" surprise occasionally.

Just now, Boba Rick said:

One thing we're going to have to get used to is the "Oh Crap my squad isn't legal anymore!" surprise occasionally.

But we only have to worry about the legal side of things if we play in tournaments...who cares if your home squad isn't legal any more?

23 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

I am grappling to understand what it will mean to buy a "game" that isn't complete.

I'm not sure, either.

2.0 is here whether I like it or not.

But it's not the same game. I am at Ground Zero about whether to buy a new, very expensive game, or whether my hobby dollars should go elsewhere.

One thing I hated the most about XWM 1.0 is how everything revolved around tournaments and the meta. 2.0 seems a move closer to that point, not away.

It's not that the game won't be complete. It will be very complete. It will just be fluid with the pricing.

Also...why do you not like tournament play? Probably because it's not balanced and only certain ships are flown....or something similar. You see it as forcing you into tournament standards and I see it as forcing tournaments into casual standards. So, when one ship becomes OP, they will nerf it. When they realize they made a mistake with Blaster Turret, they will fix it. The tournament games will become more like the casual games than the other way around.

23 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

One thing I hated the most about XWM 1.0 is how everything revolved around tournaments and the meta. 2.0 seems a move closer to that point, not away.

Have you watched the Hyperspace report coverage?

Part of the point of the app is to facilitate formats other than the standard tournament deathmatch.

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And the notion that "we don't even actually know the point cost of anything until it hits play, so we need to be able to change the game on the fly" doesn't sound like an aim at better designing.

If they'd had the ability to edit costs like this in 1.0 then 2.0 might not even have been necessary. Being able to patch point costs and control upgrade options is huge for balance.

I agree, the app is going to be an inconvenience for the casual player.

Currently I invite friends over they look at the card and they know what they can upgrade instantly just by referencing the back of the cards. This symbol equates this upgrade.

Trying to explain to new casual people (who really are not that into board gaming besides chutes and ladders) that you will need an app to even get started seems just lame. Then if I don't have an upgrade the app says, it just causes confusion and an inconvenience.

It makes it overall harder for new players to get into. I have got a few hooked on X-Wing by just coming over and giving it a shot. The App will create a barrier to entry.

At this point why not just make it augmented reality game and call it the day. You don't even need models. Just the base for the camera sensors to track. Use the holographic camera phone from the RED Hydrogen, what is the point of the physical models anyways?

That's what the Quick Build is for.

I don't think cross section between "not casual enough for Quick Build" and "too casual to use a squad builder" is going to be that big.