5 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

This is a large driving force for me staying at 1.0.

When will I see a change?? Who knows.

How many waves will there be of upcycled material? Who knows.

Did I hate 1.0? Nope.

Do I want to part with $500 in Sept to play the game I have been fine with? No.

And neither does my brother, who is my main opponent. So even if I was more gung ho, I would be stuck at 1.0, anyways.

There may be some really great clearance deals as well on 1.0 ships.

My worst case scenario, I stick with 1.0. I Get a ton of ships (for Epic play and display) for cheap along with the X-Wing fix with Saw's renegades. That's a pretty **** good worst case scenario.

7 hours ago, weisguy119 said:

Team Epic may use up to 12 small ships across both teams. If you're the one providing all the ships, 12 is the reasonable max.

Is providing all the ships and all the conversion kits for competitive team epic events a realistic scenario? And is that even in 2.0 still a thing?

20 hours ago, Alpha17 said:

I'm still a little confused as to why people are complaining about having to kit out their 10 X-Wings or 5 Lambda-Class Shuttles. You can't fit that many into a standard game, and Epic hasn't switched over yet, so 1st Edition still works there. Why do you feel the need to upgrade everything you own when you can't possibly play it all?

I have been playing since the core set released, and I can count on one hand the number of 'standard games' I have played. There is a sizeable portion of the player base who has no interest in playing tournament games or following the tournament meta. Some of us just like to play Star Wars with our Star Wars ships and will do crazy stuff like take a whole day to play an 800 points game, or spend an evening playing a 200 point game, or whatever. So the number of upgrade packs required to play 100/6 games (or 200/6 now I guess) is irrelevant to me.

Now, I don't want this message to come across the wrong way. I'm not complaining per-se. I'm happy to proxy and I play in an environment where it's accepted. At this stage I don't know exactly what components I'll need to upgrade my ships. Dials at least, I imagine. Baseplates maybe, but I'm not sure. I just don't like the notion that there's only two ways to play the game: "normal" games and Epic games.

This is our game. Not theirs, and we can play it literally any way we can imagine.

Why are people suggesting the dials from 1st Edition could be re-used? For the classic ships they're all different, with talon-rolls etc added.

43 minutes ago, mazz0 said:

Why are people suggesting the dials from 1st Edition could be re-used? For the classic ships they're all different, with talon-rolls etc added.

TIE Fighter is exactly the same, apparently.

(Well, except that the new one uses blue maneuvers instead of green...)

2 minutes ago, direweasel said:

TIE Fighter is exactly the same, apparently.

(Well, except that the new one uses blue maneuvers instead of green...)

Oh yeah! Wow, can't believe X-Wings get some of the new manoeuvres but TIE Fighters don't!

3 minutes ago, mazz0 said:

Oh yeah! Wow, can't believe X-Wings get some of the new manoeuvres but TIE Fighters don't!

The problem(s) with TIE Fighters has(have) never really been their dial. They can be improved in other ways.

7 minutes ago, direweasel said:

The problem(s) with TIE Fighters has(have) never really been their dial. They can be improved in other ways.

Maybe so, but I'll still be jealous while playing with them of other ships doing fancier moves. I dunno, maybe the short k-turn is more useful <shrugs>

Just now, mazz0 said:

Maybe so, but I'll still be jealous while playing with them of other ships doing fancier moves. I dunno, maybe the short k-turn is more useful <shrugs> 

If you want a ship that does fancier moves, they're going to cost you more. There has to be something left for Interceptors and the Advanced to show that they're upgraded over the basic Fighter. That's what it's the basic Fighter!

This is an ongoing discussion in my local communities. With the split between 5 factions, 2 of which are subtle changes between them (Rebel vs Resistance and Empire vs FO) you will probably end up picking a faction or two and growing on that. With the focus on making the factions more distinct and not spreading upgrades throughout wave releases the need to chase expansions will be reduced. I think people need to focus on their faction of choice and wait for a bit as the developers get their feet under them. I think what is ultimately going to happen is they will start aggregating data and seeing which factions are getting the most play. The app gives them direct access to what people are using and most often. If they see that the Resistance and FO factions are underperforming you may see them consolidate back to one.

I think the Resistance faction has the highest uphill climb. There's just too few of ships and with little distinguished difference from their older counterparts. I really don't think we'll have a good handle on this for a full year after the conversion releases.

Just now, direweasel said:

If you want a ship that does fancier moves, they're going to cost you more. There has to be something left for Interceptors and the Advanced to show that they're upgraded over the basic Fighter. That's what it's the basic Fighter!

Yeah, but it's a basic model of a fast, light, manoeuvrable fighter, and lacks fancy moves the bigger heavier X-Wing can do, whilst at the same time the X-Wing steals it's thunder a bit by copying the barrel roll. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the balance, I'm just a little surprised, an I might feel slightly jealous if I were playing them (but not seriously so).

1 minute ago, mazz0 said:

Yeah, but it's a basic model of a fast, light, manoeuvrable fighter, and lacks fancy moves the bigger heavier X-Wing can do, whilst at the same time the X-Wing steals it's thunder a bit by copying the barrel roll. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the balance, I'm just a little surprised, an I might feel slightly jealous if I were playing them (but not seriously so).

I watched the "challenges" on stream yesterday and the Ties popped like balloons just as easily as the old ones. Maybe the lists weren't optimized, and the dice were cold. But I didn't see much change at all in how they performed. :/

Until we know the points differences, it's impossible to say for sure, but I'm going to guess your mild jealousy will be mitigated by the fact that you'll be able to field substantially more fighters than your opponent has X Wings.

15 hours ago, EastCoast said:

Not sure if this will interest you, but I watched the interview with Andrew Navarro. The new core set looks like it will come with some nice pre-built lists based on threat cost for quick easy play. For a casual that plays with family, that is a really nice boon, list building is a giant PitA if you want a quick game with your kids.

I'm still not completely sold on the upgrade, but if they can spend a little time and effort on the casual side of things I'll reward them with more money. I stopped collecting after wave 7 because I didn't really care for the ships, some of the new mechanics, and FFG put zero effort into anything related to casual play. The pre-built lists are one of those easy little touches that make me pause and say "Ok, I'm listening."

Yeah, although I have to admit that with my kids we more or less do Pilots and droids and don’t worry about modifications or other upgrade cards too much. I also have that one friend who likes to come over and play who doesn’t own anything himself but loves to pour over all the modifications and upgrades to build the best fleet he can.

Honestly, I would be more happy to see them changing the game objectives. I played a round of the mission that comes with the Rebel Aces pack (the escort the escape pod one) and this presents a completely different challenge to both sides than a “destroy your opponent” 100pt tournament match. Seemed very tilted in the rebel’s favor though, so I don’t know how balanced it is in the long run. If they had introduced a Victory condition system more like Legion - where you have random draws but then some control- offering modifications to the game objective I would be in favor of that too.

I tried watching the demo game at Covenant and couldn’t get very far. It seems like X-Wing 1.02. Still lots of complicated card combos and interactions but nothing fundamentally different. Turrets now have an arc you have to aim. Ok, well I can see where that requires a reboot... (sarcasm)

so yeah. Right now I’m not really inclined to make the switch. But I will keep my eye on it.

Yeah, BBA, based on the way you play, the change might not matter as much. Things like points balance, the 25 page FAQ, and the constant efforts to rebalance ships that have fallen victim to scale creep are mostly irrelevant to casual players who focus solely on games with their kids running scenarios.

And don't misunderstand, this isn't remotely an attack on that playstyle. I play that way too...just not exclusively. So I get it - if that's your game, then there's really no reason to bother with the upgrade. I seriously wouldn't. The reason I will is because I also play at a game store with my friends, and in the occasional event. I also go to GenCon every year and do X-Wing stuff there. That's why I'll be switching. But yeah, if I played only like you, I wouldn't switch either. In fact, this might be a net positive for you - the game is pretty well set, you won't need to worry about buying any more stuff, and if you do, it will probably be a lot cheaper because the 1st ed stuff will go on clearance or eBay. Just have fun making new scenarios to run with the kids and have a blast!

1 hour ago, mazz0 said:

Why are people suggesting the dials from 1st Edition could be re-used? For the classic ships they're all different, with talon-rolls etc added.

New XW T65 dial matches T70 dial apparently. I've got a couple if them so easy swap over to field 4 T65s.

For the others maybe a coloured marker pen will do.

All this for casual play of course.

7 minutes ago, Gallanteer said:

New XW T65 dial matches T70 dial apparently. I've got a couple if them so easy swap over to field 4 T65s.

For the others maybe a coloured marker pen will do.

All this for casual play of course.

If true, this will be a nice thing.

1 hour ago, Chucknuckle said:

I have been playing since the core set released, and I can count on one hand the number of 'standard games' I have played. There is a sizeable portion of the player base who has no interest in playing tournament games or following the tournament meta. Some of us just like to play Star Wars with our Star Wars ships and will do crazy stuff like take a whole day to play an 800 points game, or spend an evening playing a 200 point game, or whatever. So the number of upgrade packs required to play 100/6 games (or 200/6 now I guess) is irrelevant to me.

Now, I don't want this message to come across the wrong way. I'm not complaining per-se. I'm happy to proxy and I play in an environment where it's accepted. At this stage I don't know exactly what components I'll need to upgrade my ships. Dials at least, I imagine. Baseplates maybe, but I'm not sure. I just don't like the notion that there's only two ways to play the game: "normal" games and Epic games.

This is our game. Not theirs, and we can play it literally any way we can imagine.

Guess I'll say it again since I didn't get my point across. If you don't play standard, why do you care about the Edition change? If you're just going out to have fun, and not playing by established rules, why do you need to upgrade to 2nd Edition? Even if you wanted to get the new game mechanics, wouldn't a gradual game buy-in make more sense?

18 minutes ago, Alpha17 said:

Guess I'll say it again since I didn't get my point across. If you don't play standard, why do you care about the Edition change? If you're just going out to have fun, and not playing by established rules, why do you need to upgrade to 2nd Edition? Even if you wanted to get the new game mechanics, wouldn't a gradual game buy-in make more sense?

Because I think the new edition will be better balanced. Because other people in my area will upgrade. Because I want to be able to use new stuff when it's released.

I don't know yet what sort of purchase pattern will make the most sense, I will wait and see.

55 minutes ago, viedit said:

I watched the "challenges" on stream yesterday and the Ties popped like balloons just as easily as the old ones. Maybe the lists weren't optimized, and the dice were cold. But I didn't see much change at all in how they performed. ?

Vader apparently eats up a ton of points

You're presumably going to be paying a LOT more for badass higher initiative pilots.

I believe Alex said that the stream Vader (some force ability to look at dials, fcs, and Cluster missiles) was 86 or do points out of 200

And cluster missiles REALLY didn't look necessary

2 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

Vader apparently eats up a ton of points

You're presumably going to be paying a LOT more for badass higher initiative pilots.

I believe Alex said that the stream Vader (some force ability to look at dials, fcs, and Cluster missiles) was 86 or do points out of 200

And cluster missiles REALLY didn't look necessary

Yeah Vader may have been festively plump and wasting points that could have gone into better/more Ties.

I think the underlooked thing in 2.0 is the thematic impact of Force Powers will have in casual. That gives a whole new design space to the game that wasn't there. A handful of pilots now have their own baked in little baby Palpatine modifier. As force cards are introduced there's a lot of ways to add interesting fun to the game. But it comes at the cost of having very expensive pilots to access them.

Thanks @direweasel for your thoughtful comment. I have played in one tournament and really enjoyed it. I have the idea that I would like to get more involved in the community for both Xwing and Legion (if I can ever get the figures painted). So in that sense this is kind of a bummer. But realistically 90%+ of my games are going to be in my basement so yeah. I can do whatever I want and maybe this will drop the price of some of the old expansions (I doubt it but maybe).

14 minutes ago, viedit said:

Yeah Vader may have been festively plump and wasting points that could have gone into better/more Ties.

what's also interesting is that Vader ran with 4 black cracks, which is basically what you do now if you gave him cluster missiles (which makes only slightly more sense in 2.0)

but Luke and Wedge only ran with a gold vet ( a ps 3 generic). you try to do that with the fixed X and you're floating tons of points

4 minutes ago, BigBadAndy said:

Thanks @direweasel for your thoughtful comment. I have played in one tournament and really enjoyed it. I have the idea that I would like to get more involved in the community for both Xwing and Legion (if I can ever get the figures painted). So in that sense this is kind of a bummer. But realistically 90%+ of my games are going to be in my basement so yeah. I can do whatever I want and maybe this will drop the price of some of the old expansions (I doubt it but maybe).

If you didn't have two decimators or two falcons, you do now! Cards and dials for both. No need for a model (or improvise with a proxy version) to play casually. You'll get access to stuff you didn't have and it will be fully playable in non-tournament formats.

On 5/2/2018 at 6:41 AM, mazz0 said:

Yup.

I'm *slightly* in that boat myself. I think it would have solved a lot of these problems if the conversion kits came with 3 of most ships instead of 2, since that's generally, roughly a squad's worth. I imagine that's why FFG chose 2, enough to seem fairly reasonable, but just few enough that a lot of people will want two kits (same with the 4 Z-95s and TIE Fighters). Can't complain too much though.

It's all the new sleeves for the upgrade cards that's gonna cost!

I just bought binder sleeves and sorted all my upgrade cards ?