13 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

Here's the thing: You know there will be fan made stickers that you will be able to stick on the old dials to make them 2E compliant. Are you going to take your large number of ships to some official FFG event that requires official dials?

If you are just wanting to play fun 2E with your large collection than why do you NEED to have official conversion kits? You know there will be some cheap way to update your stuff.

Yep. This is my plan for most of my fleets - most were second hand in the first place. I do need to see the actual, real, contents of the new core, conversion kits, and Saw's Renegades to see how many of each works out best to kit out (for example) the 5 X-Wings list. Also, I have 3 decimators and I'm keen to see if I will be able to fly them all in a standard tournament!

The only bit I'm a bit peeved about is the upgrade cards I bought extra of in order to field 5 Cartel Marauders in tournaments. I borrowed a pile of cards from friends initially, liked running the list, so bought extra Vaksai and Thread Tracers.

I will need 2 of every kit and probably one for the Resistance and First Order (I don't have many of those ships).

What every extras I have I will be trading for those that aren't covered. And I know I won't be the only one doing this. I just will have to take my time in getting the packs as it will be around $65-75 each here in Canada for those kits.

while it's annoying for people who own and want to play quantities of ships that exceed the amount given in the box (+1 x-wing, +2 TIEs from core), I'd have to encourage people interested in 2.0 to just start out with 1 conversion kit

the amount of (hopefully viable) squads are potentially mind boggling, to the point that you REALLY don't have to spam the same ships the moment the game launches. You can start with more varied compositions, and work your way up to spam from there

of course, everything's predicated on FFG actually doing a good job and we can't predict that

also, if you're buying two Saw's to outfit five X-wings with fixes, then you can still fly 5 X-wings in 2.0 (2 from conversion, 1 from core, 2 from Saw) provided the points limit allows it

2 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

while it's annoying for people who own and want to play quantities of ships that exceed the amount given in the box (+1 x-wing, +2 TIEs from core), I'd have to encourage people interested in 2.0 to just start out with 1 conversion kit

the amount of (hopefully viable) squads are potentially mind boggling, to the point that you REALLY don't have to spam the same ships the moment the game launches. You can start with more varied compositions, and work your way up to spam from there

I think people are losing sight of this. Legion and now Armada (latest FAQ) is geared more towards balanced builds instead of spamming a particular type of unit. A mix of aces, jousters, heavy weapons/support ships may be the most effective way to field squads in 2.0.

3 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

of course, everything's predicated on FFG actually doing a good job and we can't predict that

Given that literally every wave has had at least one ship that's wildly under- or over-costed, I think we can safely predict that they're not going to balance 50-ish ships right the first time. Obviously things are easier to adjust in 2nd Edition than 1st, but there's going to be lag while every error is identified, assessed and corrected.

There's loads of stuff about the new edition that's good and/or exciting. But I'm really really skeptical about how game balance is going to shake out in the short-medium term.

1 minute ago, Rodafowa said:

Given that literally every wave has had at least one ship that's wildly under- or over-costed, I think we can safely predict that they're not going to balance 50-ish ships right the first time. Obviously things are easier to adjust in 2nd Edition than 1st, but there's going to be lag while every error is identified, assessed and corrected.

There's loads of stuff about the new edition that's good and/or exciting. But I'm really really skeptical about how game balance is going to shake out in the short-medium term.

counter-point is that Armada was released after X-wing and apparently learned really well from X-wing's mistakes

there are obviously "better" ships than others, but every ship is ultimately viable

there is no "b-wing" in Armada, because the B-wings in Armada are slow but will murder the **** out of you

I think design constraints of 1.0 made it impossible to superbly balance things. hopefully 2.0 provides a proper opportunity

whether or not they make good on that opportunity...well, safe to say I'm not pre-ordering anything

9 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

counter-point is that Armada was released after X-wing and apparently learned really well from X-wing's mistakes

there are obviously "better" ships than others, but every ship is ultimately viable

there is no "b-wing" in Armada, because the B-wings in Armada are slow but will murder the **** out of you

Legion (at least from what I've seen) is the same way. If they learned their lessons and let you build better balanced squads hopefully means that we won't have to leave ships on the shelf to play competitively.

3 hours ago, Lord Ashram said:

... I am having a slightly hard time feeling for players who bought what everyone, including them, knew at the time was a completely over the top number of ships... you know, like the type where they would gleefully post photos of 120+ ships and go on about their ten X-Wings or twelve TIE fighters or five Falcons... spending thousands along the way...

... who are now mad they have to either a) accept not spending enough money to have the dials and cards for each and every ship, even though you will almost never use them all at once, or b) have to spend a fraction of their original investment to convert over.

I mean... I get it... but I don’t feel THAT bad.

Sure the people that way over bought can expect to need multiple copies, but it doesn't change the fact that FFG made some bad calls on their end as well. I mean its not that uncommon to have 4 Y-wings and only 2 in the kit, yet they made room for 3 quadjumpers (a ship it was easy to own 0 of), or the 3 decimators (which I don't even think you could have run in a match). So there is plenty of room for justifiable complaints about the make-up of the kits.

double post

The squadron aspect of Armada particularly rewards not spamming a single type of unit. You can but whenever I did that I quickly found myself wanting something else.

I tend to be of the mind that we're going to be encouraged to avoid lists of all one ship. I think those sorts of lists are discouraging to new players. I think the game is better off selling two ships to five guys than ten ships to one.

I think fickle has the right of it here:

24 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

while it's annoying for people who own and want to play quantities of ships that exceed the amount given in the box (+1 x-wing, +2 TIEs from core), I'd have to encourage people interested in 2.0 to just start out with 1 conversion kit

the amount of (hopefully viable) squads are potentially mind boggling, to the point that you REALLY don't have to spam the same ships the moment the game launches. You can start with more varied compositions, and work your way up to spam from there

of course, everything's predicated on FFG actually doing a good job and we can't predict that

also, if you're buying two Saw's to outfit five X-wings with fixes, then you can still fly 5 X-wings in 2.0 (2 from conversion, 1 from core, 2 from Saw) provided the points limit allows it

21 minutes ago, Rodafowa said:

Given that literally every wave has had at least one ship that's wildly under- or over-costed, I think we can safely predict that they're not going to balance 50-ish ships right the first time. Obviously things are easier to adjust in 2nd Edition than 1st, but there's going to be lag while every error is identified, assessed and corrected.

There's loads of stuff about the new edition that's good and/or exciting. But I'm really really skeptical about how game balance is going to shake out in the short-medium term.

They also aren't balancing 50-ish ships all at once, they have looked at these ships over a long period of time. Any designer would have been looking back and saying things like "wow I wish we would have done X on this ship". So the balance process was always moving along even in unofficial manner. So it really shouldn't be all that hard to get everything to at least have a home, as true balance is kinda impossible.

I’m with you 100%. I mean, I’m slightly annoyed about the numbers for the “core 4” Rebel fighters included in the kits, whereas multiples of some big ships, both phantoms and Sabine’s TIE made me scratch my head. (2 YT-2400s? Who even DOES that?)

That being said, I’m probably re-buying some X-Wings and Y-Wings anyway due to the new molds (I never realized that the old Y looked so bad), and my annoyance is one thing, the apoplectic rage people have is another thing entirely. It’s like, it seemed like a consensus that a second edition was needed, what the heck did people expect? Something close enough to use all the original stuff wouldn’t be in a position to change anything, and it’s not like the said “**** off, buy all new ships.” Did people expect conversions kits to be free? Because that was NEVER going to happen.

Even with the added buy of a new core (I’ve already bought 4 cores over the years, what’s one...or two...more?) and the conversion kits, a core and one kit is still cheaper than the Armada core set! People who are furious and saying “this is an OUTRAGE!!!! I have to buy seventeen thousand dollars worth of upgrade kits!!!!!!!!! Come on dudes. Seriously.

Edit: I also get to cut down A LOT on the amount of cardboard in my storage, which is a huge plus in my book.

1 minute ago, FatherTurin said:

I’m with you 100%. I mean, I’m slightly annoyed about the numbers for the “core 4” Rebel fighters included in the kits, whereas multiples of some big ships, both phantoms and Sabine’s TIE made me scratch my head. (2 YT-2400s? Who even DOES that?)

That being said, I’m probably re-buying some X-Wings and Y-Wings anyway due to the new molds (I never realized that the old Y looked so bad), and my annoyance is one thing, the apoplectic rage people have is another thing entirely. It’s like, it seemed like a consensus that a second edition was needed, what the heck did people expect? Something close enough to use all the original stuff wouldn’t be in a position to change anything, and it’s not like the said “**** off, buy all new ships.” Did people expect conversions kits to be free? Because that was NEVER going to happen.

Even with the added buy of a new core (I’ve already bought 4 cores over the years, what’s one...or two...more?) and the conversion kits, a core and one kit is still cheaper than the Armada core set! People who are furious and saying “this is an OUTRAGE!!!! I have to buy seventeen thousand dollars worth of upgrade kits!!!!!!!!! Come on dudes. Seriously.

Something to bear in mind when reading the knee-jerk reactions is, many players have a certain degree of autism. This means that they have a tendency towards reacting to change in a negative and personal way even when it may be a change that they wanted to see happen!

In my Scum collection, I only have Slave I, 4 Fang Fighters, 2 Headhunters and HWK-290. So, because of one more Fang conversion, I would have to buy two conversion kits including 4 StarViper updates in total. I don't have one StarViper... That's what pisses me off but otherwise I am totally fine. I suppose I will trade in/out the extra stuff. Or I will sell all my Scum collection and start playing Resistence only!

I'm not in too bad shape. I have a complete rebel/resistance collection and one rebel kit should cover pretty much everything rebel minus the x-wings, a-wings, and z-95s which may be one or 2 ships short.

But those swarms i mostly just used in epic so it may not even matter for regular play.

I would also bet it won't take long for people to pull apart those conversion kits and sell ship stuff separately. so for those people that only need one more a-wing won;t have to buy a whole other conversion kit

8 minutes ago, FatherTurin said:

(2 YT-2400s? Who even DOES that?)

I loved hunting Dengar and Manaroo (In their first incarnation) with Dash and Eaden!

Eaden held off Dengar with blocking (Dengar was always stressed which made Eaden that much better against him) while Dash destroyed Manaroo. Usually Dash came out of the fight better than Dengar. When it came down to Dash and Dengar, Dengar was over stressed and with out his support, it gave Dash the advantage.

3 hours ago, SEApocalypse said:

12 TIE-Fighters or 10 X-wings are literally out of any OP scope, because 8 ships is the maximum you can use in epic. And we get 8 conversions for TIE-Fighters most likely with the epic conversion kits. ?

Team Epic may use up to 12 small ships across both teams. If you're the one providing all the ships, 12 is the reasonable max.

Here's something I didn't put together till now

Some ships have the same EXACT dial as 1.0, most notably the TIE Fighter (greens are just colored blue)

And we all know we're going to be swimming in extra bases because of all the pilots we can run

...yeah I'd be surprised if you couldn't immidiately run all your TIE fighters with just one box. Just not at storechampions+, ofc

FFG's allotment of ships/conversion kit is pretty straightforward.

1) Everything got 2 copies in the conversion kit, which is probably the maximum most players own of most ships. You could argue certain ships should have only gotten one copy, but this could make getting additional copies of these kits on the secondary market difficult for those with two copies.

2) With two exceptions, ships 20 points less with at least one generic pilot under got 3 copies*. The Y-wing was skipped presumably because it is not intended to be run naked. And as for the decimator... people have speculated that this was a cost-saving measure based on reusing templates.

3) 12 point ships got 4 copies.

*The X-wing was also skipped, but it is quite possible that rookie pilots will he 41 points in 2.0, so the only way to reach 5 X-wings will be by buying Saw's Partisans, which comes with another X-wing anyway.

Including at least two copies of everything seems like the best way to ensure trading and a secondary market make things easier during the transition, so I think that apart from the third decimator they did a good job with the kit contents (Speaking as someone who already owns 5 X-wings, 7 Tie Fighters, and 4 Tie Advanceds).

Finally, the Tie Fighter itself kept its old dial, so if you use different pilots, you may not need the second kit to play a full swarm, at least for tournament play. Edit: Fickle, fickle ninjas! You beat me by just a few seconds!

20 minutes ago, Jiron said:

In my Scum collection, I only have Slave I, 4 Fang Fighters, 2 Headhunters and HWK-290. So, because of one more Fang conversion, I would have to buy two conversion kits including 4 StarViper updates in total. I don't have one StarViper... That's what pisses me off but otherwise I am totally fine. I suppose I will trade in/out the extra stuff. Or I will sell all my Scum collection and start playing Resistence only!

One conversion kit and one of the new fang fighters seems a cheaper way to get your four fangs than two conversions. I'd also think there will be lots of guys looking to divy up conversion kits so they can fill out their own mismatches on numbers. It isn't convenient to do it that way but if the budget is tight...

2 minutes ago, Frimmel said:

One conversion kit and one of the new fang fighters seems a cheaper way to get your four fangs than two conversions. I'd also think there will be lots of guys looking to divy up conversion kits so they can fill out their own mismatches on numbers. It isn't convenient to do it that way but if the budget is tight...

Another thing to consider is that 2.0 might utilize Legion's limits on types of units (1 required commander but no more than 2, at least 3 corps units, no more than 3 vehicles, etc) and that running 4 Fang Fighters may be either inefficient or illegal.

1 minute ago, impspy said:

Another thing to consider is that 2.0 might utilize Legion's limits on types of units (1 required commander but no more than 2, at least 3 corps units, no more than 3 vehicles, etc) and that running 4 Fang Fighters may be either inefficient or illegal.

I'm of the mind that "ship spam" isn't going to be encouraged.

I'd also suggest we consider that new players coming into 2.0 will want to buy a 1.0 ship to "have it now" and will provide an additional outlet for trading off extra components from the conversion kits. FFG is not going to want to leave retailers high and dry as it were on 1st edition stock. A bit of secondary market for extra conversion kit bits seems likely.

Just have to figure out how to store the new cards

2 hours ago, Jadotch said:

But I paid for X-Wing by not having a smartphone.

Now they pretty much want you to have a smartphone App AND upgrade all my stuff.

Excuse me for seeing it as a little insulting.

PS I am not really insulted about the conversation kits, but having to buy the core set and expansion packs that I have from 1.0 but will have exclusive upgrades in them. (I don’t need anymore ships.)

You still don't need a smartphone. There'll be a website as well. You clearly have internet access. Do you use the actual cards to build lists now?

54 minutes ago, FatherTurin said:

I’m with you 100%. I mean, I’m slightly annoyed about the numbers for the “core 4” Rebel fighters included in the kits, whereas multiples of some big ships, both phantoms and Sabine’s TIE made me scratch my head. (2 YT-2400s? Who even DOES that?)

That being said, I’m probably re-buying some X-Wings and Y-Wings anyway due to the new molds (I never realized that the old Y looked so bad), and my annoyance is one thing, the apoplectic rage people have is another thing entirely. It’s like, it seemed like a consensus that a second edition was needed, what the heck did people expect? Something close enough to use all the original stuff wouldn’t be in a position to change anything, and it’s not like the said “**** off, buy all new ships.” Did people expect conversions kits to be free? Because that was NEVER going to happen.

Even with the added buy of a new core (I’ve already bought 4 cores over the years, what’s one...or two...more?) and the conversion kits, a core and one kit is still cheaper than the Armada core set! People who are furious and saying “this is an OUTRAGE!!!! I have to buy seventeen thousand dollars worth of upgrade kits!!!!!!!!! Come on dudes. Seriously.

Edit: I also get to cut down A LOT on the amount of cardboard in my storage, which is a huge plus in my book.

28 minutes ago, Squark said:

FFG's allotment of ships/conversion kit is pretty straightforward.

1) Everything got 2 copies in the conversion kit, which is probably the maximum most players own of most ships. You could argue certain ships should have only gotten one copy, but this could make getting additional copies of these kits on the secondary market difficult for those with two copies.

2) With two exceptions, ships 20 points less with at least one generic pilot under got 3 copies*. The Y-wing was skipped presumably because it is not intended to be run naked. And as for the decimator... people have speculated that this was a cost-saving measure based on reusing templates.

3) 12 point ships got 4 copies.

*The X-wing was also skipped, but it is quite possible that rookie pilots will he 41 points in 2.0, so the only way to reach 5 X-wings will be by buying Saw's Partisans, which comes with another X-wing anyway.

Including at least two copies of everything seems like the best way to ensure trading and a secondary market make things easier during the transition, so I think that apart from the third decimator they did a good job with the kit contents (Speaking as someone who already owns 5 X-wings, 7 Tie Fighters, and 4 Tie Advanceds).

Finally, the Tie Fighter itself kept its old dial, so if you use different pilots, you may not need the second kit to play a full swarm, at least for tournament play. Edit: Fickle, fickle ninjas! You beat me by just a few seconds!

To put it more simply, for small base ships, with a few exceptions, you get a number of conversions equal to half the number of the ship you could run in a full list divided by 2, rounded up (based on current costs). So you can run 3 defenders in a list, so you get 2 conersions. You can run 5 interceptors, so you get 3 conversions. Could run 4 starvipers, so you get 2 conversions, etc. As for exceptions, you only get 2 x-wings. If osts work out similar to Saw's Renegades, you might be able to run 5. BUT, you get 1 in the core set and 1 more if you buy a copy of Renegades, so that lets you run up to 4 with a single conversion kit. HWKs and Y-Wings only get 2 instea dof 3, but are almost never run at 20 points or less. And even more rarely in squads of 5 of the same ship.

Large ships work out mostly the same, with the caveat that you get a minimum of 2 copies, so ships that you can only fit 2 of in a list, you have enough to run a full list instead of only half. The biggest exception to this being the 3 decimators, which is just completely baffling.

I'm guessing this is just what FFG settled on as the best balance between enough ships to be ble to field a lot of squads while at the same time not charging an arm and a leg to cover people being able to fly a full squad of any single ship they want to. If they'd gone that route, we might have seen kits costing doulbe what we're getting, leaving other people complaining about paying extra for 3-8 conversions of every ship when they only own 1 of each. This way people with smaller collections can just buy 1 kit, people with larger ones can buy 2. People with huge collections for epic can buy more, or get single conversions from resellers/ebay.

I have only bought one of each expansion, including the ace pacs, so only one of each conversion kit will do me just fine. (I just like to gripe because that’s my online persona, annoying isn’t it!)

BUT... I’ve got 5 GUNBOATS because of several reasons:

they are awesome.

first official GUNBOAT merch ever, so I need multiple copies to satisfy 2.5 decades of severe GUNBOAT toy drought.

5 is the official compliment of GUNBOAT per ISD

5 GUNBOATS flying in V formation is iconic, nostalgic and just plain beautiful

you can technically fit 5 in a standard list

and, I said I would buy a BOAT load of GUNBOAT if they were released, and I did.

so, I guess I’ll be parting out the conversion kits like some large LEGO set to swap out those extra Decis and HWKs for GUNBOATS.