I did not find a post about the good things in the hyperspace report. After sitting through the Hyperspace presentation for an hour and half, I think I can say I was pretty disappointed and had a hard time organizing my thoughts. I did come up with two things that I think the community as a whole can appreciate. I could not even process any questions but now, I have a few that I think might have been helpful.

The first thing is the app they created for x-wing. This is great, they are giving an app that will let x-wing fleet build, submit lists when attending tournaments, and allows ffg to create specific events. Even though right now this is specifically for x-wing, it could be easily brought over to Armada and other games. I think this is one of the first things relevant to table games to come from Fantasy Flight Interactive. Another great thing about this is that FFG seems to have gained the rights to do certain things in the digital world which was previously one of the great hindrances why they did not have their own list builder app. I have to give a nod at this point to Kingston and warlords for their great websites, I think there are others but those were the two I used. I am excited for this app and where this will lead.

The potential is there and the person for organized play was truly excited for the potential but never went in to much detail. His big thing was going to other stores to play he really wanted the community to engage each other. This led me to the thought about ranked play based on regions. If you have sanctioned tournaments and a controlled way to see lists this could lead to rankings which would be something that competitive players want (possibly so they can say who the best is) but yet the casual player does not care about rankings so it should not effect them (me). So any store can host these events as long as they meet certain requirements but only one event a year, this removes the lottery system from the regional. Again this is all hope that they will bring this over to Armada.

The second thing was that they announced in 2019 X-wing worlds will be in October and would be separate from the other Star Wars games. It is a whole weekend of x-wing. This is great cause next year Armada might actually be played at the event center instead of the hotel. The other reason, that this is great is people that play both games do not have to decide which game to play at worlds, the downside is people would have to make two trips to Minnesota. FFG has probably noticed that many players play one game and dabble in the other game, this might encourage players to choose X-wing and another game as a focus hopefully increasing the money that an individual spends on FFG products.

The third hope was the person who does I.P. licensing with Lucas films was there and mentioned about working closely with Lucas films to bring the best star wars experience to the players. It really sounded like things would be tied to the films and other media. She even hinted at legend characters might be brought back into the fold. Again this is more hope that the same will be done with Armada.

This might be a little scatter brained but some of the thoughts that I put together on the positive side of things. Out of the darkness a little glimmer of hope shines through. I was also tired during the presentation so I might have misheard some things but overall I think this is leading up to great things

See, I don't like that having an app is required for play. I know at least two people quitting Xwing over this, as neither has a smart phone.

All would be good if they had been upfront that the Hyperspace Report was an X-wing round table. I wouldn't have gotten my hopes up and I wouldn't have waisted an hour of my day watching a video about a game I care very little about.

As for the App, I can see why some won't like it but it is the way of things. Hand scratched lists shouldn't be a thing, they usually don't get rules checked. An App will do all that.

My kids are both in High School and almost everything they do is digital, in fact my Daughters freshmen class is the first in the school system where every kid is issued a Chromebook and all their work is submitted through Google docs. Report cards are online, about the only paper we do are permission slips that require a signature and sometimes a check but even that will be gone in a couple years at the most. It's the way of the world in 2018 for better or worse. Within a couple years App tie ins to board games will be expected as part of the experience and not just some new fangled oddity.

I'm pretty happy for the X-Wing players, yeah, although they seem to have no shortage of their own salt either. As an outside observer this looks really sick for them.

43 minutes ago, Darth Lupine said:

See, I don't like that having an app is required for play. I know at least two people quitting Xwing over this, as neither has a smart phone.

They said the app will be available on the web, and points values will be available as PDFs, for the internetly disinclined.

10 minutes ago, svelok said:

I'm pretty happy for the X-Wing players, yeah, although they seem to have no shortage of their own salt either. As an outside observer this looks really sick for them.

They said the app will be available on the web, and points values will be available as PDFs, for the internetly disinclined.

Which locks out people who, for whatever reason, dislike having to go online at all. Yes, I know a few. A minority to be sure, but still.

I personally don't like the idea. I was playing Warmahordes when PP did something similar, and it was very bad...but time will tell.

24 minutes ago, Darth Lupine said:

Which locks out people who, for whatever reason, dislike having to go online at all. Yes, I know a few. A minority to be sure, but still.

If you were the sort of player that wasn’t using the FAQs and tournament rules to play before now, which are only available online, then you are in no different position now.

I'm in the "I would love an app for Armada" camp, but understand the opposition. I've started to become disillusioned in the recent past with tabletop gaming in general. I just don't think it's possible for companies to keep releasing content and keep a game balanced. A living ruleset is the only way I can think of to fix that, as you have continuous ability to tweak.

All that being said, I'm still pissed off with FFG for yesterday. Unacceptably bad PR.

12 minutes ago, TheCallum said:

If you were the sort of player that wasn’t using the FAQs and tournament rules to play before now, which are only available online, then you are in no different position now.

I like how you've framed that - really highlights that this is just an extension of an already-existing mechanic taken to its next logical step.

I love what they do to X-Wing in principle, but there is one thing that makes me a sceptic.

As a veteran you can buy the conversion kit and don't need anything from New wave I. That is great. But that cannot last. It is impossible that the conversion kits already have every upgrade card they will release with the rereleases of each already existing ship. Even if it was the case, that would mean a dozen of waves without a reason to buy anything for veterans.

Much more likely that later waves will add new content with rereleases that is not part of the conversion kit. And then the ugly part starts. Then you have to buy your second yt2400 in oder to get the upgrade cards. And thereby not only your old yt2400 becomes pointless, but also your conversion kit. Only way out is, if they also release cards only packs in future waves.

15 minutes ago, Darth Veggie said:

Much  more likely that later waves will add new content with rereleases that is not part of the conversion kit. And then the ugly part starts. Then you have to buy your second yt2400 in oder to get the upgrade cards. And thereby not only your old yt2400 becomes pointless, but also your conversion kit. Only way out is, if they also release cards only packs in future waves. 

The impression I got was that all the existing upgrade cards were either changed or eliminated, and the new versions are all in the conversion boxes. As the old boxes are updated to 2e, they'll contain the 2e versions of their old cards, but not anything actually new.

Meanwhile, the production of new expansions will continue in parallel to the old boxes updating, which will of course release with new upgrades.

In other words, the new X-Wing/Y-Wing expansions have a new sculpt and price, but I think the upgrade cards are the same ones from the conversion kit, which are in turn updated versions of the cards in the original boxes.

2 hours ago, svelok said:

I'm pretty happy for the X-Wing players, yeah, although they seem to have no shortage of their own salt either. As an outside observer this looks really sick for them.

They said the app will be available on the web, and points values will be available as PDFs, for the internetly disinclined.

I'm not even internetly disinclined, just pessimistic. At some point, all games stop getting supported. When I have my iPhone 27, I want to keep playing Armada. If the app is removed from the app store, I like having the ability to keep playing the game.

It's the same reason I still buy a hard copy of all D&D books as well as PDFs. I like being able to go full analog. Then again, I've been trapped for years with little to no access to the internet before so I tend to be skeptical of games that require an internet connection.

Edit: I really like the idea Privateer Press put out where they allow you to print copies of cards off. If something were to happen and the game ended, you could just download all the latest versions of cards and you're set.

29 minutes ago, svelok said:

The impression I got was that all the existing upgrade cards were either changed or eliminated, and the new versions are all in the conversion boxes. As the old boxes are updated to 2e, they'll contain the 2e versions of their old cards, but not anything actually new.

Meanwhile, the production of new expansions will continue in parallel to the old boxes updating, which will of course release with new upgrades.

In other words, the new X-Wing/Y-Wing expansions have a new sculpt and price, but I think the upgrade cards are the same ones from the conversion kit, which are in turn updated versions of the cards in the original boxes.

My point was about the upgrades after wave i. Will I need to buy the yt2400 a second time, because there will be new upgrades that are not in the conversion kit, or not? If not, then there will be many waves that will be uninteresting to veteran players. But if, then my old stuff is merely by lipp service compatible on a competitive level. The only solution to this dilemma I can see, is that they release mini conversion kits with each new wave.

2 hours ago, Darth Lupine said:

Which locks out people who, for whatever reason, dislike having to go online at all. Yes, I know a few. A minority to be sure, but still.

I personally don't like the idea. I was playing Warmahordes when PP did something similar, and it was very bad...but time will tell.

I don't know that gaming companies need accommodate every Tom, Richard*, and Luddite.

* Forum censors ****.

Just now, ryanabt said:

I don't know that gaming companies need accommodate every Tom, ****, and Luddite.

The forum censoring ate your phrase...

6 minutes ago, Darth Veggie said:

My point was about the upgrades after wave i. Will I need to buy the yt2400 a second time, because there will be new upgrades that are not in the conversion kit, or not? If not, then there will be many waves that will be uninteresting to veteran players. But if, then my old stuff is merely by lipp service compatible on a competitive level. The only solution to this dilemma I can see, is that they release mini conversion kits with each new wave.

They could be smaller print runs for the rereleases and put those out with newer stuff.

Just now, Indy_com said:

The forum censoring ate your phrase...

It's a name, people!

4 minutes ago, ryanabt said:

I don't know that gaming companies need accommodate every Tom, Richard*, and Luddite.

It's not the Luddites. For instance, I was deployed to a classified location where I was not allowed any internet access for 6 months. I had a box with games and such in it because we couldn't have any electronics. And this is something that I have to do quite often.

At home, I live in the middle of the country with poor to nonexistent cell service and people still don't have free WiFi. If I need an "always on" device to play, it makes playing X-Wing difficult. Having the option to print the "most recent" version for those times I know I won't have access to the internet is huge.

7 minutes ago, Darth Veggie said:

Will I need to buy the yt2400 a second time, because there will be new upgrades that are not in the conversion kit, or not? If not, then there will be many waves that will be uninteresting to veteran players.

My understanding is that their aim is to crank these out as fast as possible without disturbing the flow of new releases. So while that means a big number of expansions that are "uninteresting" for players who already have the old ships and conversion kits, it shouldn't be any detriment them – more like reprints of old expansions. I don't know for sure, of course. But here's the relevant part in a Team Covenant interview: https://youtu.be/IIAnxlSDKAA?t=13m32s

12 minutes ago, ricefrisbeetreats said:

At  some point, all games stop getting supported. When I have my iPhone 27, I want to keep playing Armada. If the app is removed from the app store, I like having the ability to keep playing the ga  me.  

Apparently there will be a downloadable document with all the current point costs (can't remember where I heard this though, sorry), so even if the game eventually gets killed and the app goes down, you could just print out the latest version of that and keep playing. You don't need the app for actual gameplay.

3 minutes ago, ricefrisbeetreats said:

It's not the Luddites. For instance, I was deployed to a classified location where I was not allowed any internet access for 6 months. I had a box with games and such in it because we couldn't have any electronics. And this is something that I have to do quite often.

At home, I live in the middle of the country with poor to nonexistent cell service and people still don't have free WiFi. If I need an "always on" device to play, it makes playing X-Wing difficult. Having the option to print the "most recent" version for those times I know I won't have access to the internet is huge.

Correct. Hence the print off option. I was responding to the counter argument that some people don't like to get on the internet. Hence, Luddites.

Just now, ryanabt said:

Correct. Hence the print off option. I was responding to the counter argument that some people don't like to get on the internet. Hence, Luddites.

I'm tracking with you now. Most of the time I get accused of being a Luddite for wanting the pen/paper option. I love having digital copies of my stuff, but I've run into way too many situations where a hard copy of the rules is nice.

Heck, I double up and have hard copies and PDFs of all the D&D books just in case.

43 minutes ago, Darth Veggie said:

My point was about the upgrades after wave i. Will I need to buy the yt2400 a second time, because there will be new upgrades that are not in the conversion kit, or not? If not, then there will be many waves that will be uninteresting to veteran players.

They new products and revamps of the current line would happen in parallel.

37 minutes ago, ryanabt said:

I don't know that gaming companies need accommodate every Tom, Richard*, and Luddite.

* Forum censors ****.

Wait, so I can’t say I watched Mary Poppins with **** Van Dyke?

i have lots of electronics, but I like keeping them separate from my board games.

The great thing about board games is I can play them even if the power goes out. I never have to worry about an internet connection. I never have to worry about them being compatible with new hardware, or worry if my old hardware still works. I never have to worry about the gameplay changing if I want to, and can easily mod it to my hearts content.

3 hours ago, Darth Lupine said:

See, I don't like that having an app is required for play. I know at least two people quitting Xwing over this, as neither has a smart phone.

That's a dumb reason to quit. The app should have functionality to support multiple list builds. Only one person should need a phone or tablet. It may take a few extra minutes for the player to build their list into the opponents app, but thats about it.

1 hour ago, ricefrisbeetreats said:

I'm tracking with you now. Most of the time I get accused of being a Luddite for wanting the pen/paper option. I love having digital copies of my stuff, but I've run into way too many situations where a hard copy of the rules is nice.

Heck, I double up and have hard copies and PDFs of all the D&D books just in case.

I am similar. I have printed off hard copies of anything that is available electronically. Rules, FAQ, lists, etc.

43 minutes ago, GrandAdmiralCrunch said:

Wait, so I can’t say I watched Mary Poppins with **** Van Dyke?

i have lots of electronics, but I like keeping them separate from my board games.

The great thing about board games is I can play them even if the power goes out. I never have to worry about an internet connection. I never have to worry about them being compatible with new hardware, or worry if my old hardware still works. I never have to worry about the gameplay changing if I want to, and can easily mod it to my hearts content.

I get this. It is why I print everything off and put it in binders. The app, however, isn't simply for the novelty of having an app. If that were the case, I might oppose it. Instead, it offers the ability to manipulate points in order to better balance the game. This is worth any difficulties that app may bring.

17 minutes ago, ryanabt said:

I am similar. I have printed off hard copies of anything that is available electronically. Rules, FAQ, lists, etc.

I get this. It is why I print everything off and put it in binders. The app, however, isn't simply for the novelty of having an app. If that were the case, I might oppose it. Instead, it offers the ability to manipulate points in order to better balance the game. This is worth any difficulties that app may bring.

I understand the benefits, I really do.

I just hate the idea of 10 years from now not being able to play because you cant download the app anymore, and The phone I had it on was traded away for a new one, and the tablet I had it on broke, and the version on my computer won’t load because of the upgrade I made 3 years ago.

It’s a no-go for me.