...is that it really helps cement in mind how much better a place Armada is in, game-wise. Sure, this game came out years after X-Wing, and clearly benefited from FFG's design experience in that the same way X-Wing 2nd edition is, but...

Well, we've been playing with that benefit of experience for years. Balance in Armada was never as bad as it was in X-Wing, with our FAQ just nudging and tweaking things, without the wholesale re-writes of entire ships (seriously, what happened to the Jumpmaster over there was just...shocking. But, then, it should never have been released in that form for that cost, so...)

And the thing is, despite an astonishingly huge X-Wing collection...I dunno if I am jumping into the 2nd edition. It's cool, I love everything they've changed - and honestly, the conversion kits are reasonably priced. But looking at the total conversion cost for that...for $300 I can convert everything I have in X-Wing to 2nd edition...orrrr...for $300 I can buy [hypothetical Armada next wave of releases - say, a Super Star Destroyer] and keep playing X-Wing as 1st edition when I get the itch for it. Looking through the (impressive!) list of changes to the game, I just...I can't get the feeling to put that investment into it over the next release from Armada.

But, man, new gamers coming into X-Wing for the first time with 2nd edition? You guys are in for a treat! I think, though...not for me. It's bringing that game up to, from a design perspective, where I think we already are over here. And that's great for them! But...we're already here. And I can't wait to see what is next for us!

Armada is in a great place as a game. Almost any ship or type of fleet can be competitive. FFG has worked out to balance out the squadrons and bring the big, sexy, awesome ships back to the fore with the latest wave and FAQ.

But I'm still concerned that FFG is going to abandon Armada to X-Wing and their new favorite child, Legion.

Fair points. Tho not thrilled about what I hear about using phone apps. Never got into xwing. I might but Armada is my favourite game at the moment.

Better communication from FFG is what is really needed, especially with Armada.

Armada is still my favorite but the soft reboot might just be enough for me to buy the X-Wing coreset and maybe even an expansion or two. I'm eyeing the game for a while but hsted the power creep that somehow totally avoided Armada. I may wait a few more waves but I like the changes so far.

I'm wondering though, maybe the new waves would be repacked earlier expansions only. And I wonder if they can avoid the power ceep spiral this time...

All i all I thing X-Wing needed a 2.0 bit Armada is so fine - great even - balance-wise that it doesn't need anything that drastic. If only we would have a new expansion...

They arent going to drop armada. Look at imp assault - much smaller game, much more redily 'swappable' with legion and no news not even a rumour of any new product for months and then out of the blue a whole new wave.

Armada is great. Faq dropped at just the right time and will make worlds super interesting. I think watching another year of aceholes would have been a lot more damaging than another delay to some news

X-Wing 2.0 really got me thinking about getting into the game. I also really like the new design in the cards, cardboard, etc., but I will resist,

probably, ...

maybe,...

I do rather like some of the competitive features they're rolling out with the new edition. There's some rumblings about the app, I find it quite ingenious. They can do balance changes on a dime. Imagine if VSDs suddenly dropped 10 points? Or the MC80H1 could grab a Fleet Command? That kind of thing is possible if the app is the central place for list building. I don't want any gameplay changes, because I love the core of Armada's mechanics, but something like the X-Wing 2.0 app I would be totally on board with.

Now would be a good time to look at getting in.... people off loading either full collections or parts of it (ie Imperial when they only play rebel that they got for upgrade cards) So you can pick up the ships for bargin prices and just pay the upgrade packs

4 hours ago, xanderf said:

...is that it really helps cement in mind how much better a place Armada is in, game-wise. Sure, this game came out years after X-Wing, and clearly benefited from FFG's design experience in that the same way X-Wing 2nd edition is, but...

Well, we've been playing with that benefit of experience for years. Balance in Armada was never as bad as it was in X-Wing, with our FAQ just nudging and tweaking things, without the wholesale re-writes of entire ships (seriously, what happened to the Jumpmaster over there was just...shocking. But, then, it should never have been released in that form for that cost, so...)

And the thing is, despite an astonishingly huge X-Wing collection...I dunno if I am jumping into the 2nd edition. It's cool, I love everything they've changed - and honestly, the conversion kits are reasonably priced. But looking at the total conversion cost for that...for $300 I can convert everything I have in X-Wing to 2nd edition...orrrr...for $300 I can buy [hypothetical Armada next wave of releases - say, a Super Star Destroyer] and keep playing X-Wing as 1st edition when I get the itch for it. Looking through the (impressive!) list of changes to the game, I just...I can't get the feeling to put that investment into it over the next release from Armada.

But, man, new gamers coming into X-Wing for the first time with 2nd edition? You guys are in for a treat! I think, though...not for me. It's bringing that game up to, from a design perspective, where I think we already are over here. And that's great for them! But...we're already here. And I can't wait to see what is next for us!

Yeah, I'm hoping that the dumpster fire among X-Wing metagamers will clear eventually and people will realize that Armada is more stable (at least, for now).

If Armada was in a good place it would be getting a 2.0, or another wave, or some other form of attention Instead it got a boatload of cost adjustments because it's actually in a terrible place.

13 minutes ago, FourDogsInaHorseSuit said:

If Armada was in a good place it would be getting a 2.0, or another wave, or some other form of attention Instead it got a boatload of cost adjustments because it's actually in a terrible place.

Not played much Armada have you?

XW needed this because of how unbalanced the game has become with 6 years of power creep. Armada doesn't have as much because of the way it is designed and its a couple of years younger.

46 minutes ago, Truthiness said:

I do rather like some of the competitive features they're rolling out with the new edition. There's some rumblings about the app, I find it quite ingenious. They can do balance changes on a dime. Imagine if VSDs suddenly dropped 10 points? Or the MC80H1 could grab a Fleet Command? That kind of thing is possible if the app is the central place for list building. I don't want any gameplay changes, because I love the core of Armada's mechanics, but something like the X-Wing 2.0 app I would be totally on board with.

This. I hope sincerely that they announce this week that Armada gets the same treatment. Throw in the online RRG as well. Armada is better balanced, but still has some issues. The learning from XWMG before designing Armada is real, but they still released Demolisher in wave 1 when it’s counter was supposed to be the AFmk2.

XWMG has a history of drunkenly swinging from one broken archetype to another and smashing into every wall of balance it could. Armada by comparison is just the tipsy one weaving down the sidewalk. Still enough to worry about, but looking amazing by comparison.

1 hour ago, Truthiness said:

I do rather like some of the competitive features they're rolling out with the new edition. There's some rumblings about the app, I find it quite ingenious. They can do balance changes on a dime. Imagine if VSDs suddenly dropped 10 points? Or the MC80H1 could grab a Fleet Command? That kind of thing is possible if the app is the central place for list building. I don't want any gameplay changes, because I love the core of Armada's mechanics, but something like the X-Wing 2.0 app I would be totally on board with.

I am more on board with an app for armada than I thought I would be, after my initial "Rage" from yesterday. Mainly because of the possibilities you mention for more precise point fixes, but also because I would be very interested to see what point values current cards would get in a new system to see how far off FFG thinks they are now. Like, would Tarkin and Leia go down to 30 point commanders to "expand" their use, etc.

I think there is a greater possibility for an Armda 2.0 on a purely "card board component" change level, just because we are only 7 waves in. I seriously doubt they would need to touch the cardboard on the squads, and we have so many fewer ships. One of the only issues is that we have so many differences in ships themselves that that could be a barrier to a generic kit scenario. The logistics there would be maddening.

The cardboard updates in XWMG were to add the bullseye (?) narrow arc and 90 degree divisions for basically all ships and some rear arcs and rear bullseye arcs for others. I’m not sure Armada even requires a cardboard change unless they need to fix armaments.

3 hours ago, Norell said:

Armada is still my favorite but the soft reboot might just be enough for me to buy the X-Wing coreset and maybe even an expansion or two. I'm eyeing the game for a while but hsted the power creep that somehow totally avoided Armada. I may wait a few more waves but I like the changes so far.

These are pretty much my exact feelings. I've not had much interest in seriously getting into X-wing, but it looks a fun enough game apart from the power creep issues you keep hearing about and stuff like the 360° turrets. I like the sound of all of the changes they made, especially the app thing, so after a few waves of the new stuff have come out I could maybe see myself buying a few ships to have a little squad for casual games.

15 minutes ago, Villakarvarousku said:

These are pretty much my exact feelings. I've not had much interest in seriously getting into X-wing, but it looks a fun enough game apart from the power creep issues you keep hearing about and stuff like the 360° turrets. I like the sound of all of the changes they made, especially the app thing, so after a few waves of the new stuff have come out I could maybe see myself buying a few ships to have a little squad for casual games.

Same, actually.

Maybe the 'Something Big' that's been coming for a year is something along the lines of X-wing 2.0. I think Armada is in the best place it's ever been, but I love the idea of the app and adjustable points costs and upgrades. Imagine if you could instantly change the cost of upgrades like Point Defense Reroute, Cluster Bombs, Redundant Shields, etc. So that garbage cards can actually be usable. And the reverse for stuff that's too powerful for its cost. Or add/subtract upgrade slots for ships.

Oh actually the VSD is speed 3 and Nebs have a redirect...boom.

I really hope they don't change the mechanics of Armada,

as a lot of people have said it is more mature compared to X-Wing. I don't mind a side app that automatically updates cards but I still prefer a lot of things on board physically available. Apart from card updates I think gameplay is great, as for improving the game, I think new objectives, new point systems ( for larger fleets and squadrons such as 600 point games) or time limitations per turns ( for tournaments) would benefit the game and would be enough.

What pissed me of yesterday was FFGs lack of transparency, if they didn't have new expansions for Armada why did they tease us?

From the size of the forums ( 1.158.894 Xwing post vs 334.188 Armada posts) I can assume we area almost a quarter of X-Wing community ( or they have more time for chitchat) but compared to all other games FFG have Armada is in the second so they should pay attention to PR.

2 minutes ago, LostFleet said:

What pissed me of yesterday was FFGs lack of transparency, if they didn't have new expansions for Armada why did they tease us?

It's quite possible that something like a major X-Wing announcement involves contractual limitations about what they can and can't actually say in advance.

Hrmm.... PR... & Marketing...why doesnt it work like people think it should?

Well one thing I've noticed is despite what people are payed for they will market what they like product wise or the products that are easiest/ least work.... especially when (not saying this is the case with FFG...) part of the criteria is more where you work & what they can get away with paying you over how good you are......

42 minutes ago, slasher956 said:

Hrmm.... PR... & Marketing...why doesnt it work like people think it should?

Well one thing I've noticed is despite what people are payed for they will market what they like product wise or the products that are easiest/ least work.... especially when (not saying this is the case with FFG...) part of the criteria is more where you work & what they can get away with paying you over how good you are......

Don't most game companies require marketing people to have a working knowledge of their product lines and for all employees to be playing the games they sell? Most companies give product to employees at cost/free so they'll have huge armies to show off the game.

1 minute ago, ricefrisbeetreats said:

Don't most game companies require marketing people to have a working knowledge of their product lines and for all employees to be playing the games they sell? Most companies give product to employees at cost/free so they'll have huge armies to show off the game.

I have XWing Armada & IA (for argument sake here ) I play Xwing and not the other two so I find it easier to write marketing about XWing so more is written about Xwing

2 minutes ago, slasher956 said:

I have XWing Armada & IA (for argument sake here ) I play Xwing and not the other two so I find it easier to write marketing about XWing so more is written about Xwing

Well yeah, so you get assigned the Xwing articles. And your coworker in graphic design who loves Arkham Horror writes those ones. If you don't have the staff to write articles in-house, you freelance the **** out of that stuff. FFG should have articles for their games coming out once a week or at the least, once every other week.

Marketing is less about being the guy writing the articles and more about figuring out how to keep interest and be in the customer's face.

As said... these things never work the way people think they do /should.....

Previously, it felt like FFG was trying to flex their IP muscles and grow at the expense of their competitors. They released games to draw people away from similar systems, the spheres being X-wing, IA, Legion, and Armada in the miniatures world. Each game was made distinct to try to avoid poaching their own market. Unfortunately, that growth has probably stalled, or it never really worked. This means that a change was needed.

FFG seems to be implementing the model that most local stores use, Flavor of the Month. By promoting games with new/upcoming content, they should be able to inflate their sales, albeit at the expense of their other product lines. Timing the swap between promoted products requires a dedicated(or gullible) following, excellent salespeople, and good instincts; when it is used by a local store. To make it work online at the international level all you really need is a good marketing department, just look at the video game industry. You promote a product before its release, promote it after release to a saturation point, then move on to the next product. Denying information except through their official sources at official times, COULD increase the chance that someone currently interested in one product will buy another out of pure boredom. Since they have no anticipation for their current product. The trick is getting them to buy your product, and not jump ship to another company.

Modern gamers(read as under 30), (tend to)have seriously short attention spans for games, and a (general) tendency to be easy to part from more money than they should spend.

I could be completely off base. Seems to correlate to the data though.