2 minutes ago, Vontoothskie said:

and if the library is 30 to 45 minutes away? you gonna run an hour and a half errand so you can play a 1 hour game, then do it again for the rematch?

in rural areas it is common for a library to be even farther, in fact where I lived in virginia until recently the nearest library was the next county over. you are making an excuse that doesnt offer a resolution to the core issue here... in order to play the game you will need either internet access and a printer or a smartphone with the App for each player, which is stupid for a board game. Imagine if MTG didnt put mana costs on the cards, lol

there needs to be a way to print out all upgrades and their values to have as reference.

You don't need a printout, you can just bring the cards from the list you assembled at home on your computer or what not.

I am going to go out on a huge limb and make the assertion that anyone with the disposable income high enough to play this game has access to a computer or smartphone without a 45min drive involved. I don't know a single player that does not use a squad builder to build their lists as it is.

There is really no need to be upset about the single best improvement to x-wing in the second edition.

2 hours ago, Vontoothskie said:

the cards dont have the costs, so you cannot make a list without the app.

I suppose you could copy down the values on paper and bring the cards, but it looks like things cost different amounts on different pilots, which makes accidental or purposeful cheating more likely

You build the list with your phone or computer (as most people do already), then pull out the cards to fly it and bring the cards with you wherever you're going. The said on stream even that you don't have to have your phone pulled up with a squad builder going to tournaments or anything. Just brnig the cards, same as you do now. Maybe a print-out for the TO to look at.

@ the three of you out there including the OP: I am not referring to psychological “issues.” The issue is you are wasting a golden opportunity by being stubborn. You can buy used phones and tablets on the very cheap: ones with glass protective faces already on and rubber cases. The cost is the reoccurring one, but only if you need cellular service on them. While my tablets and phones all have cellular one didn’t for a while and the wife if only now realizing what she was missing for so long. Since most stores and places have free wi-if, you can likely get by with a one time purchase. Oh and I too like physical print for my magazine subscriptions, but sometimes I might be somewhere and didn’t bring them so I can them read the articles online. My tablet goes everywhere with my while my phone doesn’t. I maybe should have used a different word than “issues”, but then the new word/phrase might have been distorted too.

Look, I was one of the last people I know to get a cell phone. I think it was 2007. But the modern age requires new skill sets and if you don’t have those skills you will get left behind in the labor force. If not now, eventually. So I am am talking about the “issue” of not taking the necessary steps to make your work life more successful. The useful apps and how you can use them take time. If finances are the issue, that reaffirms my point. You should invest in your future and not miniatures. $30 a month is NOT a drop in the bucket, but neither are all the games we play. I would actual spring for a used tablet with cell service and get a cheap flip phone. The smart phone isn’t the necessity, but access to the internet is for the growth of your brain. When I was young someone asked me what my three wishes would be. I told them a funk band playing around the corner of me whereever I went, being able to snap my fingers and be back in bed with my teeth brushed, and finally 5-6 brilliant people to follow me around to answer my questions. Well, now I got two of my wishes because musics is always with me and no I a hundred of millions of experts to call upon.

More important, I strongly believe this as a former university instructor that instant access to the internet is a great way to expand your mind. Yes, too many people are stuck on their cell phones and the art of conversation sometimes gets lost, but having some common sense/curtesy when not to use your portable interent device is also important. Having conversations with people instead of being glued to your phone is important for your mental health and the health of our democracy. I see a lot of kids out on dates using their phones and I want to give myself a virtual head slap in my mind.

When you are waiting in the line at x, y, and z, you could be listening to a TED talk, reading the internet version of The Economist, loading recipes into the app Paprika which like so many hidden gems will save your life money, time and/or make you healthier. Doing something to expand your mind with the internet is the greatest gift of the internet. I get that the three of you luddites assume a smart phone is only for social media. However, if used properly, it becomes an virtual assistant making you far, far more productive and successful and offers you an instant way to educate yourself in your downtime. Not being able to look up info on the fly does great disservice to your mind, because you will forget or get busy later when to get home to look information up.

I het that some of you don’t understand priorities, but if you can’t afford a smart phone you need to reevaluate you time, future, and priorities. You children, whether or not you have them currently, depend on your success.

If enriching your life isn’t important and only playing games is, then there is really nothing left to be said. However, if x-wing is the impetus to somehow get you into the 21st century, then...welcome. Join us. The view is great up here.

Quote

Good grief @1977Valarian. Join me at work in the park and gardens where I do physical labour, you know, using muscles and full body coordination, for a living and you may actually experience some of the things that enabled the human race to evolve and survive for the hundreds of thousands of years before electricity was discovered. And yes, the view is pretty ****ing awesome.

Discussing the necessity of a smart phone in everyday life is simply irrelevant here. Fact is, smart phones could only have been invented because of the things we learned without them. In the future, their successors will invent themselves whilst the human race vegetates. And then rule us all. Our children will be meat slaves to the digital economy!

The end is near!!!

People, you can use the very same device you used to post here, to build your squad in 2.0, or to download/print the PDF with the costs.
One was using a laptop. That is fine. It will be a website too.
One was using a kindle. That is fine too. It has a browser.

You don't need to pay a recurring data plan. Go to a place with free wifi, like a library, a park or a bus, and download the app to your phone or the PDF to your laptop/ebook-reader. Done.
If you want to avoid "screen time", that is feasible too. Print the PDF at your closest public library, at work, school, or at a friend's.

You don't need either of this to play the game. Once you squad is done and considered valid, you no longer need the squad point costs or the upgrade bars. Just the pilots and upgrade cards.
Where I live, tournament organizers require all participants to send their squads the day before, thru email. In that case you don't even need access to a printer. Send the mail, then bring your pointless, upgradeless cards to the tournament.

Edit: I forgot the case of someone that wants to make a squad, on a laptop or kindle, but not on a tablet or smartphone, at a place without either cell or wifi access. For example, someone with a laptop in the mountains ("The Shining"-style), and that they have absolutely no access to a printer or didn't remember to print the PDF.
That case is tricker, but I there will be a way to run the website-base squadbuilder in offline mode if you take some steps before you go to that Internet-less place. We can get particular details of this once they release the website and we can investigate it.

The end is near? Have you thought about applying for the show “Doomsday Preppers?” I would love to see a more thorough take. I imagine they will give you some proceeds to buy a wi-if tablet to help you decide when to hit the bunker and lock the doors.

So when you are doing your noble, honest work in the parks and gardens with all the head space time, you don’t have any questions in need of answering? Or are you the Cliff Claven of gardening and know it all already? I think of all that wasted educational opportunity you could be listening to will working hard with your hands. I am sure a man of your talents does most of those things on auto pilot like driving an 18 wheeler so just think how much time you could devote to learning in your particular sitauation? Seems to me you have a golden opportunity you are throwing away driving to and from work and while working that you haven’t tapped into yet. What do you do when you are getting an oil change and other mundain situations of downtime.

Seems you could be learned all about evolution. You could learn about just how few people slipped into America’s 50k ago based on calculations in the mutations Y chromosome and all the hundreds of thousands of blood samples that have been collected and sequences throughout the world ?. Then after a honest hard day’s work you could have a conversation about all the fascinating things you learned while working. You could get paid to learn. Some awesome ? man. Play on player.

5 minutes ago, 1977Valarian said:

The end is near? Have you thought about applying for the show “Doomsday Preppers?” I would love to see a more thorough take. I imagine they will give you some proceeds to buy a wi-if tablet to help you decide when to hit the bunker and lock the doors.

So when you are doing your noble, honest work in the parks and gardens with all the head space time, you don’t have any questions in need of answering? Or are you the Cliff Claven of gardening and know it all already? I think of all that wasted educational opportunity you could be listening to will working hard with your hands. I am sure a man of your talents does most of those things on auto pilot like driving an 18 wheeler so just think how much time you could devote to learning in your particular sitauation? Seems to me you have a golden opportunity you are throwing away driving to and from work and while working that you haven’t tapped into yet. What do you do when you are getting an oil change and other mundain situations of downtime.

Seems you could be learned all about evolution. You could learn about just how few people slipped into America’s 50k ago based on calculations in the mutations Y chromosome and all the hundreds of thousands of blood samples that have been collected and sequences throughout the world ?. Then after a honest hard day’s work you could have a conversation about all the fascinating things you learned while working. You could get paid to learn. Some awesome ? man. Play on player.

Have you considered actually learning things through experience? Or talking to people who know things and can demonstrate how they work in real time?

Or you know, the simple joy of being outside with people, doing things.

I'm kind of failing to see how reading about other peoples learning is better than doing your own in a field that has actual relevance to daily life.

Yes, I have a smart phone. Yes, sometimes we look stuff up on them. Yes, sometimes it's interesting and educational.

No. None of it is necessary for putting air in your lungs, food in your belly and expanding your view of the world.

Unless you live in a city, work in an office and shop in a supermarket, I guess. Oh the wonders of the 21st Century.

Do you think we've maybe strayed off topic a little bit?

15 hours ago, BlueAce said:

It's 2018 I'm sorry but if you don't have a smartphone or access to the internet you're either a luddite caveman or you're on a list and can't go within 500 feet of a school...

Wow. That's fantastically abusive and maybe you shouldn't post things like that.

(It might occur to you that everybody commenting here does at least have internet access. I have a science degree and two masters degrees so please don't assume someone is a luddite for not wanting to own a smartphone.)

On 5/3/2018 at 7:09 PM, 1977Valarian said:

I get that the three of you luddites assume a smart phone is only for social media.

I never suggested that. You're the one with a wrong assumption.

It's a game of plastic spaceships, and you feel the need to behave like this?

Man, being a Luddite is not like having leprosy. Own that baggage and be proud! Abusive my butt. Did you even read the definition of Luddite. It only sounds really negative because it is a name and people don’t like any identities put on them they don’t themselves prescribe. Since when is is just a descriptive word for a certain life style. Your attempting to make it sound as if the word is a kin to some racially charged word when it merely is describing the facts of the situation. It is not even like calling a person who smokes pot , a pot head. Don’t suddenly make a mountain out of a mole hill and attack my language because you don’t like what is being frankly said. In your case, your reason for not entering the 21st century sound like more an a old dog new tricks kind of thing but that is your right. You want to play Little House on the Prarrie, then by all means we won’t stop you. Just don’t get in our fun of enjoying the 21st century.

Then we got this other guy attempting to claim that the joys of a honest, commendable, hard day’s work gardening 40 hours a week is so zenned out that he has no room for other peoples’ ideas or any time to do anything but soak in the mystic like some Buddha. Maybe! More power to him. Oh, I get you can enjoy ? that for hours on end, but there does come a point when you have mastered your trade and can move on to learning other things while still doing you daily zenned out task. You loose most people when you suddenly say the world of knowledge is worthless and that you got all the answers you need. There is a channel on TV for those people.

This is all so silly straw man aurgument anyway. Either buy the game or not. Garden in the lonely isolate of your own thoughts and ideas over and over never adding to your own ideas, or not. Who cares. Stop complaining because you guys made a choice not to join us in the 21st century. Walden pond it up ...all three of you. Have a support group for Left Behind: how to deal with the FF abandonment. Continue to shame them for moving forward into the arch of history instead of pulling the plow.

You guys are some protectected class of cotizens in need of our pity. It is just a choice. Do or do not? Just stop complaining and ruining all our joy that the game has the potential to be so much more. Maybe it won’t, but don’t rain on our parade and complain that we don’t like you sticking your finger in our eyes.

Cheers.

Ne excellent to one another and don’t take offense when none is given. If the guy was really zenned out like the great and glorious Buddha, he would have let all this be like water running down the river to the ocean while avoiding the rocks. Be the river...not the rocks. Doesn’t take a lifetime of gardening to learn to work with nature and not against it.

Plastic space ships. Don’t you know they call it plastic crack for a reason. That is why it cost so much and why so many people bought so many Starvipers. Just really really difficult to chop up is all.

Just breath. “If you take life too seriously, you’ll never get out alive.”

...or a buy a smart phone. They make you EVEN smarter. You three are smart...I am just attempting to help make you to y the tiger ? great.

If you can read this message you have access to the point costs of all the 2.0 ships.

3 hours ago, Cuz05 said:

Good grief @1977Valarian. Join me at work in the park and gardens where I do physical labour, you know, using muscles and full body coordination, for a living and you may actually experience some of the things that enabled the human race to evolve and survive for the hundreds of thousands of years before electricity was discovered. And yes, the view is pretty ****ing awesome.

Discussing the necessity of a smart phone in everyday life is simply irrelevant here. Fact is, smart phones could only have been invented because of the things we learned without them. In the future, their successors will invent themselves whilst the human race vegetates. And then rule us all. Our children will be meat slaves to the digital economy!

The end is near!!!

Al long as our digital overlords remember to feed and let out my dogs, I welcome them!

58 minutes ago, Firespray-32 said:

If you can read this message you have access to the point costs of all the 2.0 ships.

Where?! I've been looking everywhere for those!

Price check on Quadjumpers?

Step #1. Put you cards into plastic sleeve protectors.

Step #2. Go to FFG's webpage and look for the information you need. If you don't have internet, ask a buddy.

Step #3. Use a Sharpie to write down the cost numbers and any other info you need on the sleeve.

That's probably what I'll do when I finally decide to go 2.0 (if I ever do).

I agree with Vontoothskie, the whole point to play a board game is not having to be attached to a screen. At the same time I do appreciate that making this information digital enables future tweaks without errata. I am just glad they are planing to make a webpage and printable PDFs. If they hadn't, it would be a big negative in my book.

As a side note, we all need to learn everyone has a different opinion and perspective on things.

this thread is highly entertaining. keep going.

I only bought a smartphone about 6 months ago, and it was only because my job started offering to pay part of the bill. I don't mind the cost of the phone, I just wasn't interested in paying for a monthly data plan. Now with my job's help, the smartphone with the data plan costs the same per month as what my dumb phone did, so I'm good with it. It's an HTC android most of you kids would probably laugh at. I don't care.

As others have said, I do squad builders on my PC and print things off to bring to the store. Even now that I have a smart phone, that won't change. I don't like being tied to everything all the time, my phone is shut off more often than not. I have sent maybe 200 texts in my life, and don't intend to start going crazy on that now either, just because I can. Only about a dozen people know my cell #. Everyone else I know can call my land line, and leave a message, and I'll get back to them on my time, when I feel like it, maybe. Or they can find me on facebook, which again, I will check when I get home and look it up on my computer. I don't have facebook on my phone, because again, I like not being tied to everything all the time. My phone has the squad builder app, a ringtone app, gasbuddy to help me find cheap gas, and not much else. I might eventually branch out and get more apps, but I'm not in a hurry. I don't use the ones I have too often. So I'm pretty much in the anti-phone camp with the rest of the old geezers.

All that said, I'm not worried about 2.0 with any of this. I'll download the app on there, but I'll still mostly make my squads beforehand on my PC.

On 5/1/2018 at 10:25 PM, Chucknuckle said:

To be fair, refusing to install third party apps on your phone or not having a smartphone does make you a pretty fringe-dwelling individual. These days it's one step away from wearing a tinfoil hat so the secret police can't read your mind.

Not really, over 51% of consumers download no apps in any given month (source: https://techcrunch.com/2017/08/25/majority-of-u-s-consumers-still-download-zero-apps-per-month-says-comscore/)

There's a retraction of sorts happening in certain aspects of mobile adoption. Many consumers are keeping their app adoption restricted to a small number of high impact apps (Amazon, Facebook, Google) and relying more heavily on web experiences for other things - "if it doesn't need to be an app, don't make it an app" is a common saying.

If a consumer plans to buy the box but sees an app is required, it creates a new friction point that can cause a person to second guess the purchase decision. The move across web and mobile development has increasingly become removal of friction points from the consumer experience, app downloads being one. If the website is really good, it solves this problem and would be usable on both iOS and Android. Still a friction point, though.

Changing the physical nature of the game and then adding a mobile app without a ton of test & learn means it is likely to be a crappy experience day one. FFG would be well served to release a v1.0 version of the app now and get feedback cycles going so it has less chance of being a friction point at the launch of v2.0. Alternatively they could buy an existing 3rd party app provider (i.e. Aurora), clean it up and push an update to get more learnings immediately.

This is totally true, and I often say to myself that I have one app that does everything I need. It's called Chrome. It opens facebook, reddit, and just about everything else I need to use from day to day.

Having said that, I believe FFG are offering a web-based and an app-based version of their squad builder.

8 minutes ago, Knave Squawk said:

Not really, over 51% of consumers download no apps in any given month (source: https://techcrunch.com/2017/08/25/majority-of-u-s-consumers-still-download-zero-apps-per-month-says-comscore/)

That's not the same as saying 51% of consumers *don't download any apps* though. There's a lot of months I don't download any apps, but I have a ton of apps on my phone.

8 minutes ago, Knave Squawk said:

There's a retraction of sorts happening in certain aspects of mobile adoption. Many consumers are keeping their app adoption restricted to a small number of high impact apps (Amazon, Facebook, Google) and relying more heavily on web experiences for other things - "if it doesn't need to be an app, don't make it an app" is a common saying.

There's a web experience too, so...

8 minutes ago, Knave Squawk said:

If a consumer plans to buy the box but sees an app is required, it creates a new friction point that can cause a person to second guess the purchase decision. The move across web and mobile development has increasingly become removal of friction points from the consumer experience, app downloads being one. If the website is really good, it solves this problem and would be usable on both iOS and Android. Still a friction point, though.

Changing the physical nature of the game and then adding a mobile app without a ton of test & learn means it is likely to be a crappy experience day one. FFG would be well served to release a v1.0 version of the app now and get feedback cycles going so it has less chance of being a friction point at the launch of v2.0. Alternatively they could buy an existing 3rd party app provider (i.e. Aurora), clean it up and push an update to get more learnings immediately.

To begin, an app is not even remotely required. Web access is required for tournaments however. Not saying this changes much of what you are saying, but I think it needs to be reiterated.

Second, FFG (Actually Asmodee, but same difference) already own app developers, and have published multiple things. I don't think we have to worry too much.

Third, they are releasing the app early - by Gencon - giving them time to bugfix.

finally, I think the app may be a sticking point for some, but I don't see many people on the line of wanting to play competitive, and not being willing to download an app / use the web builder.

2 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:

That's not the same as saying 51% of consumers *don't download any apps* though. There's a lot of months I don't download any apps, but I have a ton of apps on my phone.

Yeah I have roughly 60 apps downloaded to my phone (not including default ones) and it's been 3 months since I last downloaded one. Not downloading at least one every month doesn't say anything.

8 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:

There's a web experience too, so...

as the rest of my post stated...so yeah there's that?

On 5/2/2018 at 1:51 AM, Stefan said:

I don't get the angry reactions to this. Who doesn't have a smartphone these days?!

On 5/2/2018 at 8:35 AM, Zazaa said:

Well its time to get one!! ?

On 5/2/2018 at 5:07 AM, Dengars Toilet Paper said:

Not trying to disagree with anyone but you can probably buy a phone for cheaper then these new 2.0 packs so if you don't have a smartphone buy one as a investment for Star Wars X wing, and don't say "what if I can't afford one" coz if ur spending over $50 on a game over time you will be able to save up for a cheap little phone.

"Buy a ______. I dont care if you want one or can afford one, i dont care if its useful to you, i dont care if you are allowed to have one or have reasons to avoid one... buy it because I think you should. youre so stupid and ignorant if you dont buy one. if you dont make the same choices as me, youre so behind the times. do yourself a favor and ignore what you think or want or can do and just do what I say."

does that sound stupid to you? good. because thats your arguement and it sounds pretty stupid to me.

I have a phone, and it gets shut off when im not working. my Jewish friends dont use their phones on the sabath. one of my playgroup members bought x-wing to play at his families summer cabin that has no internet or cell service. my godson plays and doesnt have a smartphone.

point is there are dozens of valid reasons why someone wouldnt own a smartphone which range from poverty to not wanting one, and dozens more why they wouldnt want to use one to play a board game.

you dont sound smart repeatedly telling people to do somthing they dont want to do

Fair points. But tbh ffg is doing it for the better of the majority and you can never please everyone. Don't say go back to the original because ever thought their must be problems with it to make a change? In the long run its makes so much sense as would you prefer to let your Godson down when he puts torps on the JM5K or just lend him your phone when he asks to make a list?

Turning your smartphone off is optional.

Jewish friends can make their builds on days other then Sundays right?

The app should be offline so no internet is needed (if it's not I will be annoyed ngl)

Buy your godson a smartphone for Christmas or his birthday.

Mission accomplished ? I understand every comment you will highly likely respond with.

At the end of the day is players can't do anything about it now. Either play. Or don't.

Nothing is achieved by being Negative.