23 hours ago, Andreu said:

Printing the PDF from time to time will be enough. It will be like a page per army at most. Think of it like the FAQ for the 2.0 waaay less convoluted than the current FAQ.

I had hoped that 2.0 would correct the cards so that I didn't need to carry around a 3-ring binder of supplemental info.

Instead, they made it mandatory.

People are using an internet connected device to complain about needing an internet connected device to get new information.

55 minutes ago, imrandy85 said:

People are using an internet connected device to complain about needing an internet connected device to get new information.

Except I even said in my post that this isn’t about me exactly

not every Xwing player is on the forum

in fact I’d bet that most Xwing players aren’t

3 minutes ago, Tailsgod said:

Except I even said in my post that this isn’t about me exactly

not every Xwing player is on the forum

in fact I’d bet that most Xwing players aren’t

But I'd bet that most of them have internet access in some form or another - even if it is asking their parents to download a pdf for them. I've been playing X-Wing since 2012 and I can't think of a single player in any group that I've played with regularly that wasn't internet enabled in some fashion.

The thing is that I only use a desktop or an ipad.... This is not a convenient improvement and mandates me buying and taking expensive equipment along with my stuff. I really don't want to take the family Ipad.

However, it will make the pro game better. The warhammer power level stuff though is not my cup o' tea.

3 minutes ago, Larky Bobble said:

The thing is that I only use a desktop or an ipad.... This is not a convenient improvement and mandates me buying and taking expensive equipment along with my stuff. I really don't want to take the family Ipad.

However, it will make the pro game better. The warhammer power level stuff though is not my cup o' tea.

You dont' have to bring the ipad with you to events. You just use it to build your list, then bring the cards with you to the event same as you do now (and maybe a printout?)

I don't go to events. I go to friends' houses with ships and cards for everyone to use. We get drunk. Cards with points are convenient for a beer and pretzels game. This is great for a 'pro' game, and that's cool, but it lost it's mid level build ability now. Power levels or watching shiny rectangles....

On 5/1/2018 at 8:45 PM, Tailsgod said:

I love EVERYTHING about 2.0 except the upgrades and numbers being online only.

That's the thing I liked the most in 2.0.

I’d think an app would be way easier for building lists drunk than than trying to add up the points on the cards yourself...

It is not about the convenience of building the list. It is about the convenience of modifying lists on the fly in an easy way at mate´ s place without the need for technology. I take a variety of pilot upgrades for example at 3 points. PTL, Pred, etc... People can switch if they wish. They see it´ s a "fair" ship they are flying (or squad), compared to their mates, easily. In comparison, this is a boring set of show the cards, show the shiny rectangle, show that actually the 3 points are not the 3 points for that particular ship, kill the vibe and zzzzzzzzzz................

The ability to constantly adjust point values to a state of balance is mandatory for this game to stay healthy (on the competitive level).
We've experienced life without this. It involves waiting years for fixes that still end up being ineffectual. It involves months and months of dreadful metas while over tuned things like Defender fixes or new JM5Ks crush everything else. I know it's kind of a pain, but it alleviates so many other pains.

13 minutes ago, Larky Bobble said:

It is not about the convenience of building the list. It is about the convenience of modifying lists on the fly in an easy way a mate´ s place without the need for technology. I take a variety of pilot upgrades for example at 3 points. PTL, Pred, etc... People can switch if they wish. They see it´ s a "fair" ship they are flying (or squad), compared to their mates, easily. In comparison, this is a boring set of show the cards, show the shiny rectangle, show that actually the 3 points are not the 3 points for that particular ship, kill the vibe and zzzzzzzzzz................

Nothing stops you from still bringing a variety of 3 (or 6 in 2.0) point upgrade cards and swapping them out without the squadbuilder...

I too a, not a huge fan of needing technology to play a tabletop game, but in this case it is so overwhelmingly worth it that I didn’t even hesitate to approve.

So much about where the game has been for the past couple years is because of an inability to adjust points.

The app might be a minor annoyance, but it provides a massive, massive benefit.

You´ re deliberately missing the point it seems. There is no transparency in a casual environment for non pre built power level based builds. It will be based on trust, unless you bring technology. Which, for me, is an anametha on a beer and games night.

I accept that I am a casualty for the greater good. It is not a problem. Enjoy thge wonderful fluidly balanced game that it will be. Enjoy the FALCON WITH 3 CREW, because now, it is possible for Tourney owners to mod the game, it seems. Honestly, although I will now push this 2nd edition game to my FLGS owner, beer nights will be 1st edition for the ease and transparency of play.

All these complaints about lack of convenient access to the technology will be eliminated when Disney offers free in-skull mobile devices. The sound quality is amazing, and the monthly fee for reduced ads is reasonable.

2 minutes ago, Larky Bobble said:

It will be based on trust, unless you bring technology

Or a print out of the pdf that has been brought up a hundred times now in various threads.

That ain´t a PDF, that´ s going to be an Excel spreadsheet! ZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz..........................

The crossreferencing for ships and pilots vs upgrades is going to be HUGE! That ain´ t beer night stuff.

Yeah, it does seem like a lot of information.

So maybe wait until we actually know what it’ll look like and how it’ll be formatted before complaining about it.

Ffg seems to be doing everything possible to accommodate players while still future proofing the game. Let’s give them a chance.

As I say, it is a leap, and a potential Coca Cola moment. Personally, I do not want this to set a succesful precedent in table top gaming. There are already enough shiny rectangles in my life, and to make them nigh obligatory in order to play a non electronic game is sad.

In my opinion, no more.

That's weird. I feel like my only complaint was designing so much of it here on the forums in collaboration with the other users and not getting credit for it. 2.0 is practically a crowd-sourced design.

21 hours ago, Larky Bobble said:

I don't go to events. I go to friends' houses with ships and cards for everyone to use. We get drunk. Cards with points are convenient for a beer and pretzels game. This is great for a 'pro' game, and that's cool, but it lost it's mid level build ability now. Power levels or watching shiny rectangles....

Properly drunk I'm not capable of adding up point costs beyond 10 either way, so yay for threat levels and devices to take calculations off my hands!

21 hours ago, CBMarkham said:

The ability to constantly adjust point values to a state of balance is mandatory for this game to stay healthy (on the competitive level).
We've experienced life without this. It involves waiting years for fixes that still end up being ineffectual. It involves months and months of dreadful metas while over tuned things like Defender fixes or new JM5Ks crush everything else. I know it's kind of a pain, but it alleviates so many other pains.

Agreed. But they could have very easily printed the card's stats as released, and then made electronic changes later.

It really would not have been hard to please both crowds.

On 5/1/2018 at 7:54 PM, xanderf said:

I confess I do think I'll miss the upgrade slots at least not being on the ship cards. I mean, where did that ever cause a major problem for FFG? The only instance I can think of off the top of my head is the multiple nerf passes on the Jumpmaster, but most of us tended to agree that it would have been easier to just change its point cost rather than do literally EVERYTHING but that...except FFG never changed point costs before, and now they can.

The missing upgrade slots on the ship cards...I dunno. I mean, I guess the expansions do come with some pre-set builds, so for the truly casual players, you aren't left out in the cold, but...hmmmm.

Definitely the one thing I really don't care for.

Supposedly the lack of space for it on the card was a contributor to the Punisher aces not having EPT slots, then there's the whole modification and title "slots" that's obviously a kludge to work around wanting to be able to add or remove upgrades retroactively. Or the 'salvaged astromech' slot that was a work around for not having thought ahead and printed "rebel only" on the likes of R2D2.

Having upgrade slots in the app is the right way to do it if they're already committed to having the costs handled in the app.

20 hours ago, Larky Bobble said:

You´ re deliberately missing the point it seems. There is no transparency in a casual environment for non pre built power level based builds. It will be based on trust, unless you bring technology. Which, for me, is an anametha on a beer and games night.

I accept that I am a casualty for the greater good. It is not a problem. Enjoy thge wonderful fluidly balanced game that it will be. Enjoy the FALCON WITH 3 CREW, because now, it is possible for Tourney owners to mod the game, it seems. Honestly, although I will now push this 2nd edition game to my FLGS owner, beer nights will be 1st edition for the ease and transparency of play.

In a beer and pretzels game, would you really be distraught if someone changed a list and it came out to 101 points? Could you just as easily house rule a fixed list of upgrade costs and call it a night? Sure you would have to look it up on a list but it wouldn't to overly complex.

38 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Agreed. But they could have very easily printed the card's stats as released, and then made electronic changes later.

It really would not have been hard to please both crowds.

That could create other problems. Now you have contradictory information (printed cost vs updated online cost). You're more likely to have people trying to play with invalid lists because they're getting their info from outdated cards. If only the correct information is available via the interwebs, then you do have to go through the trouble of accessing it, but at least it won't actively conflict with all the materials you have in front of you.

Personally, I would find it a bit annoying to have cards with inaccurate point costs and upgrade slots printed on them that haven't been accurate for ages. Feels cleaner this way. Maybe that's just me though.