Just now, Admiral Deathrain said:

Where were they saying that? Pretty sure in the demo game Alex Davy said the opposite.

FAQ says it's mandatory

Just now, ficklegreendice said:

FAQ says it's mandatory

Eugh, let's hope we can get them to reverse that descision! For me using a device (my PC, usually) to build my lists isn't something new, but I'd rather not be forced to have my list with me digitaly.

2 minutes ago, Admiral Deathrain said:

Eugh, let's hope we can get them to reverse that descision! For me using a device (my PC, usually) to build my lists isn't something new, but I'd rather not be forced to have my list with me digitaly.

I should clarifiy that FFG's wording is it's typical ambiguous self

" For freeform building and tournament play, however, the X-Wing squad builder app is an essential part of the X-Wing Second Edition experience. " https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/products/x-wing-second-edition/#/faq-section

don't know if you have to have it on hand or if you can use it to print out lists you've made...

Printing the PDF from time to time will be enough. It will be like a page per army at most. Think of it like the FAQ for the 2.0 waaay less convoluted than the current FAQ.

28 minutes ago, McTavish said:

From what they were saying, if the list is in the app, it's legal and using he app will be mandatory for organized play.

How they will enforce that in the real world, I have no idea. Maybe QR codes on printouts or something like that.

Perhaps there will be some sort of TO software? You do your list in the APP for such and such event, show up to the tourney and give your name and the list becomes available to the TO. Then the TO enters results and FFG now has data on what lists are doing what?

23 hours ago, 1977Valarian said:

It you folks don’t have access to the smart phone, put down x-won’t and solve your first things first. Being a lazy hippy was cool in the 90s when tech still sucked, but is Neanderthal now. Evolve. I am not being mean, but telling you the cold hard realities of life. Sometimes you need to shave, wear a suit, etc. Neing part of the future instead of complaining about it is soooo passé.

The brain in your pocket: Evidence that Smartphones are used to supplant thinking. Barr et al 2015. Computers in Human Behaviour, 48, p473-480

Brain drain: The mere presence of one's own smartphone reduces available cognitive capacity. 2017 Ward et al. Journal of the Association for Consumer research, 2.

There are a lot more studies on negative effects on cognition, learning, psychological effects etc. Just saying. Not using a smartphone for other reasons than money is pretty valid. Apart from e.g. that among others facebook have been shown illegally and without consent tracking both your phone calls and email content.

11 hours ago, Frimmel said:

My big thing with the upgrade slots and points not being on the card is how will I know whether or not a list across from me is "legal." How will my opponent know my list is within the rules? How will a TO know whether or not the lists in the tourney are legal?

Probably a **** of a lot easier then combing through all the faq's to check what changed and if its legal... If I don't trust my opponent's list I can quickly punch it in and see if its legal.

The new system is 100% better than telling a new player that shows up for their first tournament that the combo they are running has been FAQ'ed and does not work or the ship they built is not allowed because it has been changed. I have had this happen and it sucks... like really sucks.

This change to the Smartphone/web application is absolutely fantastic because of how better it is for new players (not to mention the threat levels, that just seems fun).

STOP YOUR COMPLAINING. I have 0 sympathies for people complaining about this if you have the disposable income level high enough to play then you have a smartphone/tablet/computer and will be able to play without any issues. The cards are still there, just build the list at home and bring your cards.... you don't have to carry around a smartphone to play.

I am heartbroken that rules have been changed that did not need to be, simply to line FFG's pockets. I can't even list build without a computer? This is simply CRAZY! Also I simply cannot and will not spend £200+ in order to keep playing, I feel like my home has been invaded by thugs who are holding me hostage at gun point.

I will carry on playing 1.0 as long as I can with like minded people at my FLGS, then its goodbye X-Wing. I will not forget what FFG did here and it will be a cold day in **** before they get another penny out of me for anything! They will regret this when they see what its done to the community. Believe it.

A sad day for gaming.

9 hours ago, Icelom said:

Probably a **** of a lot easier then combing through all the faq's to check what changed and if its legal... If I don't trust my opponent's list I can quickly punch it in and see if its legal.

The new system is 100% better than telling a new player that shows up for their first tournament that the combo they are running has been FAQ'ed and does not work or the ship they built is not allowed because it has been changed. I have had this happen and it sucks... like really sucks.

This change to the Smartphone/web application is absolutely fantastic because of how better it is for new players (not to mention the threat levels, that just seems fun).

STOP YOUR COMPLAINING. I have 0 sympathies for people complaining about this if you have the disposable income level high enough to play then you have a smartphone/tablet/computer and will be able to play without any issues. The cards are still there, just build the list at home and bring your cards.... you don't have to carry around a smartphone to play.

I do not have a smart phone. I have disposable income for X-wing because I do not spend $80 a month for a smart phone. I am not particularly put out by the app. I obviously have access to computers and the internet. I just want to know how it will work. I want the developers to know my end user questions before the thing rolls out. I think this will be terrific and will avoid the awful situation you mentioned but I also don't have all the information. I'd like all the information.

And this entire thing isn't simply a question of how I alone feel about it. I play in a group. The group has to buy in or I won't have anyone to play. People make mistakes when pulling lists. This might make them harder to catch. It might make them easier. But I don't know how it works. Complaining and asking questions are not the same thing.

9 hours ago, madquest8 said:

I feel like my home has been invaded by thugs who are holding me hostage at gun point.

That's... a bit excessive, don't you think? No one is forcing you to do anything. No one is taking anything away from you. You still have all of your current stuff and it is all still playable as X-wing 1.0.

It sucks to feel like you are losing a hobby you enjoy, but the reality is that the game is changing and you're not on board with it. That's totally fine! It's completely reasonable to opt out of a game you're no longer interested in, or to simply decline to spend money when you don't want to. It's your time and money, after all.

I mean I’m still gonna play 1.0

just because I’m gonna buy and play 2.0 doesn’t mean 1.0 won’t be something people play?

like they aren’t burning all of our cards in the middle of the night

This is the result of a card system, in order to update things they have to either deal with "The card doesnt say that..." or wasted revenue on reprints.

By leaving that stuff to the app, they can change it as need be.

the app is mainly a means to govern point costs and upgrade slots

it is highly unlikely that FFG will change the text of physically printed cards that are coming with their game

so if they need to pull a jumpmaster nerf or up the cost of a certain pilot, they can do it electronically without you having to worry about drawing over your current stock

it also lets you do things like have proton torpedo cost more for Wedge (who is a murder machine with them) than some rookie scrub (decidedly less murderous) without releasing cards that are whole documents in length

On 5/1/2018 at 9:50 PM, Vontoothskie said:

i don't understand your point at all. are you saying that players should have to buy a computer to play a board game? if they dont have a computer already, maybe there is a reason

What I'm saying is that there is literally no obstacle.

If you have the disposable income to play a game with toy space ships, you should be able to afford $50 to buy a cheap tablet. Assuming you are one of the few people who do not already own a tablet or smart phone.

Seriously. You can get a Fire7 for $50 on Amazon.

Yeah,

Forcing people to use an app to theory craft could be a "Coca Cola" moment for FFG. Personally, I enjoy having the cards set out and being able to mix and match, physically, until I get the squad I want. I do use a squad builder, but less than 25% of my building time.

They are going to have to include some pre built setups with points in the boxes aren´t they? Otherwise they` re forcing a new table top gamer to online for the ability to have a game! Which can` t be consumer friendly, can it?

How many people read using a kindle? Personally I prefer a real book.

5 minutes ago, Larky Bobble said:

Yeah,

Forcing people to use an app to theory craft could be a "Coca Cola" moment for FFG. Personally, I enjoy having the cards set out and being able to mix and match, physically, until I get the squad I want. I do use a squad builder, but less than 25% of my building time.

They are going to have to include some pre built setups with points in the boxes aren´t they? Otherwise they` re forcing a new table top gamer to online for the ability to have a game! Which can` t be consumer friendly, can it?

Yes they are including pre built stuff, it's a meet system of threat levels. Pick a total threat level and grab the pre built a up to that amount.

10 minutes ago, Larky Bobble said:

Yeah,

Forcing people to use an app to theory craft could be a "Coca Cola" moment for FFG. Personally, I enjoy having the cards set out and being able to mix and match, physically, until I get the squad I want. I do use a squad builder, but less than 25% of my building time.

They are going to have to include some pre built setups with points in the boxes aren´t they? Otherwise they` re forcing a new table top gamer to online for the ability to have a game! Which can` t be consumer friendly, can it?

eh...I don't think expecting people to have a computer is a massive detriment

especially given our ability to pose questions about it...online

15 minutes ago, Larky Bobble said:

Otherwise they` re forcing a new table top gamer to online for the ability to have a game! Which can` t be consumer friendly, can it?

There's going to be pdf copies of the latest point costs/slots and things, so don't worry. Get that printed out and you can organise a tournament in a post-apocalypse bomb shelter if you want.

23 minutes ago, Larky Bobble said:

Yeah,

Forcing people to use an app to theory craft could be a "Coca Cola" moment for FFG. Personally, I enjoy having the cards set out and being able to mix and match, physically, until I get the squad I want. I do use a squad builder, but less than 25% of my building time.

They are going to have to include some pre built setups with points in the boxes aren´t they? Otherwise they` re forcing a new table top gamer to online for the ability to have a game! Which can` t be consumer friendly, can it?

Mh I don't know, if I were to guess I'd say 80% of squadbuilding already happens online, at least! The community builders are rea´lly good, my primary concern is that FFGs builder won't be as good, but won't allow for competition.

I think some people really don't get what a brain drain a smart phone really is.... Maybe it's connected ?

This is pretty much my only real quibble with the new way. Screens are ubiquitous and they are bad. Like really bad. You probably wouldnt believe how bad they actually are...

Fortunately, I work outdoors and play a reasonably large amount of miniatures/board/tactile games with the family. Heck, I even read actual books! (When I'm not reading comics on my phone...). So I can squeeze screen time like this in without it warping my reality.

Unfortunately, the reasoning behind the app is fairly sound.

BUT. How often are they gonna change these point values? If it's particularly often, that may well bring it's own issues. Mainly with having to constantly keep up with an ever shifting meta that never settles enough for point changes to be identifiable or even relevant. (I literally have no idea but nothing is ever perfect).

If it's not that often then erratas and reprints would possibly not have been such a big deal. They could have adjusted points for 1.0 imbalances but for some reason decided more and more cards would achieve this simple job with some much more exciting complexity!

Regardless, the logic behind the app is currently infallible imo and I can't really argue against it. It's just a shame that future X Wing tables may well be surrounded by underglowing, slightly vacant, translucent faces. Rather than jolly weirdoes, laughing through biscuit crumbed beards at the primal joy of 1st person human interactions. Such is progress. As long as I have a hover bike on the way, I will accept it.

I understand the complaint, but everything in life has a cost. And being able to rebalance on the fly seems like something worth the cost. And to be honest it has been a long time since I built a list without the use of a list builder.

I doubt theyre changing point values more often than they've had to with erratas

The big thing is that the app is just much more convenient for keeping track of upgrade costs as they will now scale in cost according to the ship and pilot they're being put on

Example, a proton torpedo is a lot more powerful on Luke Skywalker than some schlub. At a higher initiative he has an easier time target locking while maintaining range 2-3. He can also further modify his torpedo with the force

So he will be paying more points for his far superior torpedo than a rookie pilot would

You can track these scaling costs on a PDF, but an app is just a fair bit easier to manage

On ‎5‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 11:37 PM, 1977Valarian said:

Evolve. I am not being mean,

Yeah, you are. I had a flip phone until 2 years ago, because I don't want to be plugged into the BS that is the internet all the time.

FFG has just taken a miniatures game and made it electronic.

My eyes are not as good as they used to be, so I hate doing things on a phone.

Thus, confining me to the internet on a computer where I can read better kinda sucks.

On ‎5‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 6:45 PM, Tailsgod said:

I don't know maybe I'm in the minority on this one

We are, but you are not alone.

I wish they had printed the points and upgrades on the cards. Fine, those may become wrong in the future, but at the outset the component is a complete piece in the game.

1 hour ago, Larky Bobble said:

How many people read using a kindle? Personally I prefer a real book.

I prefer paper books, but own well over 500 ebooks and a Nook.

They aren't exclusive.