Hi,

after reading through the new Creature Rules from Jan 2010 I was left wondering if creatures are still bold. They are told to ignore flags, but can they still battle back?

I had the feeling that creatures are in most cases too powerful, esp when blue and red. SO I though this was a deliberate move to cut the threat level down a bit by removing the battle back from them. (My experience is only based on about 15 Scenarios I played yet...)

Would be nice to get some answer to this by the rules gurus of FFG here :-)

Thanks in advance.

The chain-reaction, if a remember well, should be this:

- Bold is a inherited or innate condition of a unit that allows it to ignore one flag.

- If you ignore flag and don't leave your hex vacant, you are titled to a Battleback

Or

Bold->Ignore Flag->Battleback.

So, basically, the creature is still allowed to Battleback, because it came from the ability to ignore the flag, not directly from the Bold status.

Playing with Battle Savvy rules tinker with this sequence eliminating the need to ignore flags...

Am I right?

Pardon, I partially emend what I've said for clarity:

Original Battleback sequence:

ignore flag->didn't vacate->battleback

Battlesavvy Battleback sequence

didn't vacate->battleback

Yup, affro, you've got it. Ignore flag is equivalent to bold morale. If using Battle Savvy rules this distinction loses a lot of significance, but still has subtle importance.

And just to be clear, without Battle Savvy rules, a unit just needs to have the ability to ignore flag(s) as well as maintain its hex in order to battle back - it does not have to actually have a flag result rolled against it in order to trigger the battle back. That is a nuance that occasionally gets added mistakenly by players new to the game.

vendolis said:

Keep in mind that the "new" Creature rules are written with Battle Savvy being the intended governing rule set, so explicitly calling the ability to ignore flag(s) bold becomes unnecessary, as bold no longer is pre-requisite for battle backs under the Battle Savvy rules. Though in the original rules those are equivalent statements: "able to ignore x flag(s)" and "bold(subscripted degree)."

As to the issue of Creatures being too powerful, it is a matter of opinion, of course, but I think you will find that the Creatures are just as powerful as they are intended to be within the game. They will fall throught the course of normal combat, but typically it takes a lore-aided strike to fell them. Doubly so with the Dragons

vendolis said:

Too powerful? I always tell new players that they're like the Death Star. If you can just get lucky enough to hit them in their exhaust port, they're dead.

Trump said:

And have Obi-Wan Kinobi as your guiding force too! <G>

Trump said:

A friend and I are playing through the Dragon adventures. During the first three plays, they were untouchable. On the fourth play, however, I was able to lob a photon torpedo right down that exhaust port...game over.

At first I was worried about the Dragons' impact on the game - but I think the price one must pay to field them coupled with the price one pays if they do get lost in battle, is just about right.

Thank a lot for the clarification. .. Now back to play the game :-)