People are complaining about all the ways 2.0 is going to cost them money.

Let's not forget about the ways that 2.0 is going to save you money.

I personally only play Scum. Sold my other stuff since I simply don't have time to utilize all of those ships, even though I thought they were cool. Now I won't have to worry about buying ships I don't care about to get modifications and EPTs exclusive to those ships. I ONLY have to buy Scum from now on. Great bargain.

Also, remember all those fixes FFG kept having to sell us? The Scum Aces pack, the C-ROC with the Syck fix? Now, thanks to the app, in the future when FFG attempts to sell you new products, it'll be because they have something new and fun to give you, rather than just having to sell you more cardboard to fix terrible ships you already bought.

Still super excited about all this. Just dynamite.

3 hours ago, falveryn said:

In my tournaments it is very easy to just give your sheets to your opponent so they check your list instead of moving all the way around (100% of matches), and when an opponent asks to read a card effect (about 25% of matches).

For that simple reason I already always have print outs with full card text. One to be exact, because that is the one I directly give my opponent at the beginning and if they need something they can just grab that. The cards stay at my side of the table.

But yeah, if table space is so limited (which in some of our tournaments had been the case, simply because to many people registered, but not enough to rent a bigger venue) then ... well, actually in those cases we just stuck pages over each other partly and sometimes stuck them partly under the game map. As you have print outs as back ... you are still not losing much, outside of a little bit of flair and making switch card effects annoying. Though those effects can always switched to be token based instead make things on limited space smoother.

I still feel your pain, because it still annoying to have an perfect solution not working perfectly anymore. Especially if you have special tables it sucks that all the money is now wasted. We are using here mostly cheap MDF-plates as table extensions, so the costs to adjust size is dirt cheap anyway.

19 minutes ago, CBMarkham said:

People are complaining about all the ways 2.0 is going to cost them money.

Let's not forget about the ways that 2.0 is going to save you money.

idk about "save $" but I know that over half of my collection is "worthless" outside of what people would buy it for thematic games

these people are not as easy to find as I would have liked

with X-wing 2.0, provided FFG does it right, I'm getting back over half of my collection through it being usable

or I'm getting whatever percentage of it back as I can when I sell the models for people to play with their own conversion kits

Almost everything. They cut alternate dice types in development and I was really cheering for that one. But dang they did get a ton right. Only thing they have done that was a hundred percent original was linked actions. I'm pretty sure everything else was a crowd sourced idea of these very forums.

Edit: oh, and the conversion kits aren't modular. They really should have been. You should be spending like $2/pack at your leisure to get to upgrades. Like for me one rebel kit will get all my rebels but four of my X-wing models. Even after a core and a expac of the same ship I still won't be quite right. But I'll have an extra of the two phantom shuttles for some odd reason. ? ?

26 minutes ago, ForceSensitive said:

Edit: oh, and the conversion kits aren't modular. They really should have been. You should be spending like $2/pack at your leisure to get to upgrades.

Sounds like a warehousing, production, and retail nightmare to me.

8 minutes ago, skotothalamos said:

Sounds like a warehousing, production, and retail nightmare to me.

Agreed.

Honestly, the new business model actually sounds much less profitable for FFG. Again, I don't need to buy a Rebel ship if I'm a Scum only player, just to chase an EPT or a copy of Vectored Thrusters, or whatever. Also, if they keep fixing ships I already own that aren't seeing tons of competitive play via re-balances and point adjustments, there'll be less necessity for me to chase brand new fixes and newly released ships simply for the sake of making tournament viable lists.

The fact that they're asking for a few bucks to cover the cost of the massive overhaul they spent so much time designing seems more than reasonable. My excitement has yet to wane.

Old FFG Model: We fixed the Scyk. Kind of. I mean, you still won't play them...because we kind of created a bomb meta situation that we can't easily fix, but they Scyk IS way better. The fix comes with the C-ROC for just $69.95. Not bad, yeah? Oh, also, do you want to buy a Starviper fix?

New FFG Model: We fixed all the ships, and improved upon all the game mechanics across the board. Also, we made it so that we can keep making future fixes with only an app update, at no expense to you, the players. Your entire favorite faction gets the full overhaul for $49.95....I mean, not really though. Who pays MSRP? We good?

Ingrates: Ugh, money grab!! Outrage! *torches and pitchforks*

14 hours ago, Arachneo said:

No imperial Slave 1, definitively. Firespray only available to Scum faction.

No omission, just f***d up fixing a mistake caused by a lack of the scum faction when game was developed.

Fixed that for you.

14 hours ago, shadowfriend said:

2.) not being shown what upgrades a ship/pilot can use on the card is disastrous - I don't like every player being forced to run around with a smart-phone. Especially when playing custom-formats with more than 2 players. Also you can't just walk over to your opponent and check the cards lying on the table physically.

3.) Forcing to use an app to play is just a bad decision for me

Ok, let’s try again.

YOU DON’T USE THE APP WHILE PLAYING!!!!!!

It’s a squad BUILDER app, not a squad playing app. You use the app at home when deciding what cards you need to bring. The app doesn’t change how you actually play AT ALL.

25 minutes ago, skotothalamos said:

Sounds like a warehousing, production, and retail nightmare to me.

Which transforms in paying twice as much to convert anything that is a bigger collection. No thanks to that.

7 minutes ago, Forgottenlore said:

YOU DON’T USE THE APP WHILE PLAYING!!!!!! It’s a squad BUILDER app, not a squad playing app. You use the app at home when deciding what cards you need to bring. The app doesn’t change how you actually play AT ALL.

Agree. Wherever it is that you are now, in order to whine about these changes on the interweb, just be there when you do the list building for your next game(s). You obviously have SOME access to the internet so...seems fine.

My only gripe so far is the apparent arbitrary renaming of cards that do the same thing as they did in 1.0. E.G. ReconSpec becomes Perceptive Copilot.

Changing terminology for the **** of it just seems an extra complication that is unnecessary.

Just now, Dr Zoidberg said:

My only gripe so far is the apparent arbitrary renaming of cards that do the same thing as they did in 1.0. E.G. ReconSpec becomes Perceptive Copilot.

Changing terminology for the **** of it just seems an extra complication that is unnecessary.

Fair.

Still, you must concede that it's a minor gripe in the grand scheme.

31 minutes ago, SEApocalypse said:

Which transforms in paying twice as much to convert anything that is a bigger collection. No thanks to that.

Well....bigger collections should cost more to upgrade. The problem is those medium sized collections with concentrated ships in one faction and smattering of ships in the other two. do you buy one upgrade for your primary faction and play with a less full collection or buy all three kits and try to sell/trade for the extras you need while keeping the ones you have for your secondary factions...

2 minutes ago, GrimmyV said:

Well....bigger collections should cost more to upgrade. The problem is those medium sized collections with concentrated ships in one faction and smattering of ships in the other two. do you buy one upgrade for your primary faction and play with a less full collection or buy all three kits and try to sell/trade for the extras you need while keeping the ones you have for your secondary factions...

You most likely buy upgrades for all factions and enjoy a 50% discount on your favorite friendly local gaming store, because they want to get rid of their 1.0 stuff sure and clear inventory to get shelf space for 2.0 … not all at once naturally, because with the conversion kits a thing and not all old ships still re-released ... you get the drift, they will kick out at first the 1.0 stuff from wave 1 and wave 2 and go forward with that until everything has been released for 2.0 ... so plenty of time to grab discounted first edition ships.

13 minutes ago, CBMarkham said:

Fair.

Still, you must concede that it's a minor gripe in the grand scheme.

Duly conceded.

1 hour ago, skotothalamos said:

Sounds like a warehousing, production, and retail nightmare to me.

Order on demand. As it stands, they could easily end up losing buckets of money on leftover conversion boxes sitting on shelves. Logistically difficult to be sure but I should be able to send them a list of the conversion packs I need, they send me what they can right away or if predictions stick build up, what they can't they order from factory. They'll still end up with extra of something and insufficient of something else, but the margin will be closer.

I was only hoping the conversion packs would cover the "new" wave one anyway and be in booster packs. Like I buy the core, but one expac of all the things in the wave, then from the shelf pick out the booster-conversion packs to update my X (three), Y(two), TIE(eight), and TIE/adv(three)

And don't tell me a multi million dollar international corporation couldn't handle that. They can totally handle that.

1 hour ago, Dr Zoidberg said:

My only gripe so far is the apparent arbitrary renaming of cards that do the same thing as they did in 1.0. E.G. ReconSpec becomes Perceptive Copilot.

Changing terminology for the **** of it just seems an extra complication that is unnecessary.

to be fair, it is astoundingly bizarre that they did this

I mean the new "deadeye" isn't deadeye anymore and "ellusiveness" is completely different

we also have a bunch of "nerfed" cards being reprinted with their names intact (crackshot, predator, r2d2 etc.), and yet more cards being reprinted that are completely different from their original incarnation (ruthlessness)

...so wtf is "perceptive copilot" ?

guess they're determined to change something

43 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

to be fair, it is astoundingly bizarre that they did this

I mean the new "deadeye" isn't deadeye anymore and "ellusiveness" is completely different

we also have a bunch of "nerfed" cards being reprinted with their names intact (crackshot, predator, r2d2 etc.), and yet more cards being reprinted that are completely different from their original incarnation (ruthlessness)

...so wtf is "perceptive copilot" ?

guess they're determined to change something

Exactly. It feels like change for change’s sake. If the card does the same things as it did 1.0, then why not keep it named the same. Helps differentiate between what’s “new new” and what’s “same new”.

I haven't read all the information, but I have a couple questions.

Are Cannon and Turret upgrades still a thing? Or will secondary guns be baked into the ships now?

Did they make Astromech slots a generic slot and just differentiated between Alliance Only and Scum only on the respective astromech upgrades?

I'm astounded at FFG's foresight. They've jumped every other major miniatures producer by about 10 years in terms of technological interface effectiveness. Sure, they're losing out by giving us what is probably 'at cost' conversion kits, but after that they've got the definitively best game on the market in terms of price, game play, player base and tournament support. They might lose 15% of their X-wing buyer base, but they'll double the base within a few years, and continue the growth into the future.

I wouldn't be surprised if in a few years they did the same thing for Armada and further down the line Legion. It's promising to be an excellent revision of the game, and I am most definitely buying in.

51 minutes ago, DarthEnderX said:

Are Cannon and Turret upgrades still a thing? Or will secondary guns be baked into the ships now?

At the very least turrets are - check the Y-wings upgrade bar. It's confirmed (source?) that TLT will not be part of the game though.

Cannons are two. They mentioned that Turrets and Cannon get the range modifiers.

On ‎5‎/‎2‎/‎2018 at 12:20 AM, ficklegreendice said:

So with the heavily hinted reduction in action efficiency (bye, PTL! Nerfed fcs) I think we're going to have even greater emphasis on support ships that can feed mods to their buddies

Although PTL-esque repositioning seems like a thing. Maarek having focus-into-red-barrel roll, for example.

7 hours ago, Forgottenlore said:

YOU DON’T USE THE APP WHILE PLAYING!!!!!!

It’s a squad BUILDER app, not a squad playing app. You use the app at home when deciding what cards you need to bring. The app doesn’t change how you actually play AT ALL.

Indeed. And there is supposedly a website equivalent.

Yes, you'd need an app or website to validate that a list you've not written is legal, but that's a job for a tournament organiser, and it's not unreasonable to expect them to have a laptop - to run cryodex or some similar tournament software, if nothing else.

1 hour ago, Astech said:

I'm astounded at FFG's foresight. They've jumped every other major miniatures producer by about 10 years in terms of technological interface effectiveness. Sure, they're losing out by giving us what is probably 'at cost' conversion kits, but after that they've got the definitively best game on the market in terms of price, game play, player base and tournament support. They might lose 15% of their X-wing buyer base, but they'll double the base within a few years, and continue the growth into the future.

I wouldn't be surprised if in a few years they did the same thing for Armada and further down the line Legion. It's promising to be an excellent revision of the game, and I am most definitely buying in.

At the very least turrets are - check the Y-wings upgrade bar. It's confirmed (source?) that TLT will not be part of the game though.

Plus, the added features show some sensible inspiration from the few good bits of attack wing; introducing colours on actions and charge tokens on upgrades is a mechanic not a million miles from D&D Attack wing, allowing you to have a ship able to barrel roll but that really doesn't want to , and upgrades which aren't one-use but also aren't infinitely reusable.

Plus, it's a nice open-ended mechanic. Since the card basis is "spend X charge tokens to [effect]" it even allows for slow-recharging weapons - spend 3 charge tokens to fire it, recover 1 charge token in each end phase....allows you to have an upgrade with a 2-turn cooldown but which doesn't require you to actively do anything to make the cooldown happen.

Alternatively action-to-place-charge token to replace 'reload'.

Or whatever combination thereof. It's a great open-ended mechanic and lets you fiddle around in the guts of the game system to create new effect (someone able to use charges on one upgrade on a different upgrade, for example - feels like the sort of jury-rigging thing "chopper" might do....)

19 hours ago, CBMarkham said:

Old FFG Model: We fixed the Scyk. Kind of. I mean, you still won't play them...because we kind of created a bomb meta situation that we can't easily fix, but they Scyk IS way better. The fix comes with the C-ROC for just $69.95. Not bad, yeah? Oh, also, do you want to buy a Starviper fix?

New FFG Model: We fixed all the ships, and improved upon all the game mechanics across the board. Also, we made it so that we can keep making future fixes with only an app update, at no expense to you, the players. Your entire favorite faction gets the full overhaul for $49.95....I mean, not really though. Who pays MSRP? We good?

Ingrates: Ugh, money grab!! Outrage! *torches and pitchforks*

We fixed all the ships (except imperials!). Soontir needs bullseye, lambda and tie fighter dials confirmed to be one of the handful of unchanged ones (just having the lambda have a rear arc does not magically make it better, with the old firespray as the best example), x-wings get a massive powercreep, firesprays get a massive powercreep (but are no longer imperial)... even in the FFG demos the imperial squad looked the weakest.

The app and all that allows changes, but will their attitude towards imperials change? I doubt it. Galactic Empire mostly relied on their aces, with ships specifically designed to ps arc dodge (like the new interceptor), but they have confirmed higher ps will have a far higher cost than in 1.0. Just look at the new Krennic. It is really bad, will not buy a Reaper because of it.