I want to start my heroes off disadvantaged where part of the fun of the first adventure is improving their situation- finding food and drink (with some possible risks!) and having to craft weapons and basics as they start with very little and no weapons- that kind of thing - any thoughts? I have ideas of how to do this re them making use of what's around them, I'm asking more in terms of imposed game limitations and managing the vulnerable position this places them in, a fight could be fatal.

Also most enemies/npc's will be in a similar undermined state so their risk to the heroes will be lessened but there are a couple of still powerful nemesises, or nemesi? nemesees?

How can I start my heroes very compromised as in right down at the rebuilding from next to nothing ground- what limits should I set on their initial character building, any thoughts on implementing this 'starting from almost nothing' beginning and how to handle the fact they're not in a good place for any conflict at first, it's gonna be fisticuffs at best when they're rather at their worst.

There's one character who'd still be very powerful and want to take advantage, how do I avoid the potential hero fodder? I'm not encouraging them to go find said character at this point, but it's an RPG so they could be curious *cough* foolish *cough* enough! After all it's quite logical that they may want to, but if they meet the weakness/advantage gap is gonna be huge at this point and I'm not sure said character would be friendly/merciful! How do I set things up to avoid an early demise of the heroes if they do go after and find said character really early on? How can I encourage a reflective 'perhaps later' without railroading the pc's into delaying any desires to find them- I'm not sure if I should lay on some pretty big hints, some subtle ones or none at all... Any other options? They don't know where said character will be which probably helps a lot, but it's an RPG, so they may get lucky and find them!

How do any of you other gm's handle such things?

I would be very clear with the players that this was happening, before characters where made. Including information like a rough amount of the story that will be spent in isolation (half a session or 10 sessions?)

I would give them plenty of narrative time where they have a chance to do one task (gathering and preparing food, shelter, making tools/weapons, exploring etc)

Skill challenges would be common, I can see lots of possibilities for finding difficult to access resources.

Perhaps introduce another Craftsmanship similar to those in RoT called Primitive, 1/4 price and can be made without tools or special equipment. Weapons: 2 lower Damage 1 higher Crit with an automatic threat. Armour: Higher Encumbrance (+2 or 3), +1 boost to checks to resist bad weather, -1 Setback to social checks.

@Richardbuxton they have something like that already in RoT. Page 113, Roughing It sidebar, “ Your Game Master may allow characters to use the Survival skill to craft certain simple items, such as crude spears and traps. This follows the normal rules for crafting, but such items are not made to last, and generally wear out quickly. The GM may spend on any check involving an item crafted using Survival to cause the item to break and become unusable. ”

Good tips both, if anyone else has any others please share.

I like the idea of primitive crafting too.

What about starting character stats etc? Would you go low or add a modifier to 'normal' starting stats, I feel the former may suit the 'back to beginnings' nature of things but the latter might be easier for players? Thoughts?

Honestly characters start bare bones as it is, unless you use Heroic Abilities, so I would let them do a normal creation just without the gear

What’s led to the predicament? Presumably they have lived lives up to this point and have a history?

Well, you could do the opposite of experienced or super characters and have them start with 50 XP less, but considering how dear (in every sense) points in characteristics are, you probably don't want to do that. Maybe just drop the four free points in career skills? Ought to make a notable, yet surmountable difference.

On 4/29/2018 at 8:48 AM, Watercolour Dragon said:

nemesises, or nemesi? nemesees?

Nemeses.

The books actually use the plural several times. ?

What I'm going to suggest should only be done if you know your players very well. I would suggest not telling them at all what's going to happen. Have them make their characters completely as normal, and have something happen within the first session that causes them to lose all of their equipment. Just be sure to give them enough freedom to be creative and overcome the situation. Also be prepared to place some very heavy handed hints along the way if they're not doing well.

As i said above; only do this if you really know your players. Some players REALLY hate surprises like this.

Personally I would add setbacks to all rolls. I would push them narratively and let them know if they cannot talk their way out then they have to roll at extra difficultly. Continually ask them what it looks like when they are doing things. Don’t give them less xp, just make them work hard and acquiring things until they start to narrate and look around. If you can get them making up their story and pushing the narrative start showing them the way out.

On 4/30/2018 at 9:04 AM, Richardbuxton said:

What’s led to the predicament? Presumably they have lived lives up to this point and have a history?

Somebody dropped something of great primeval power. It smashed and shattered, perhaps not for the first time, albeit under different circumstances and with it being more powerful than previously. Big big cataclysmic explosion or similar world-changing event, possibly not an explosion but something big that has radically changed/impacted everything.

After which their world seems to have somehow restarted or / and semi-repaired itself, things are somehow the same yet somehow different. This is unsurprisingly confusing for the heroes at this point- they've just recently been celebrating a victory which now seems questionable and uncertain.

If you read my work-in-progress intro you can get the gist of things and maybe offer some tips for pulling off this 'what's just happened?' 'restart' (the 'what' and discovering it is a big thread of my quest design).

https://shared-assets.adobe.com/link/b12ca843-1689-45b5-5584-e1d8a7a07621

It's a good question though as logically any knowledge based factors would probably be the same, the heroes have clearly continued from before whatever has just happened, it's just certain factors that are compromised (the world hasn't perfectly repaired itself- the world too is in need of a certain amount of rebuilding/recovery/repair).

I mean, really a lot of this needs to be up to your game design stand point, not just arbitrary "starting off weaker for plot reasons" plot stuff. How are the players weaker? Physically? Have they lost access to traits and abilities? Does magic still work the way it does before this happened? How about technology? Has everyone suddenly lost knowledge of how some technology works, or everyone? How? Is the loss of knowledge permanent? How deep does it go? Can people still smelt Iron or is it back to tying sharp rocks to sticks, or sharp sticks? Bronze Age? How are the other races and creatures in the world affected? Is currency still valuable or is barter for goods or trade and skills more valued than bits of metal?

Really when you make changes like "Weaker" you need to have some idea as to how weak, who is affected, and the like. If it's everyone, then why? What is the extent of it If you are looking at primitive weapons, that implies that for whatever reason no one knows how to smelt ores anymore, or something has fundamentally changed. Options to represent this are simple, look at the weapon crafting rules, and just replace the weapons with the lowest damage values of those ranges, remove traits, or weaken them, IE Defense 1 is now Soak 1 unless they find a "well crafted" or "Pre-cataclysm" or whatever weapon that might be standard weapon or armor. That works for either bronze age weapons vs Iron, or to distinguish a standard weapon vs something that is expertly crafted and the like.

But really as the DM/Storyteller it is up to -you- to decide how much of the world is affected and to what extent before starting the game. Because "The players are weaker at start for reasons but it has no lasting impact" is, quite honestly, bad DM/Storytelling, especially if it's something that shakes up the world because it's not a very compelling or impactful beginning if it's undone by the end of the session, or a couple sessions later. Major setting shake ups should never be used as an introduction and then dropped like it never happened later down the road. If you want to see why "gotcha" sorts of changes are bad, then all you have to do is look at Flashpoint Paradox or the various TV shows that play with Time Travel. It sets a bad tone right out of the gate for anything that follows.

I don't know you, or what you have planned, so this may be entirely off base but if this sort of thing has happened before, and it's meant to be a "temporary" thing, then why bother? What exactly does it do for your world if the "changes" are only temporary, gone by the end of the session short of railroading players down a certain path? And if it's just a parallel world but the characters themselves in terms of traits or magic casting or the like are not impacted, then again, why? It doesn't have much of an impact or reasoning beyond DM Fiat or Plot, both of which are things that shouldn't be done because again, it sets a bad tone for anything that follows.

Wulfborn's stance on this is helpful- I'm gradually unpicking the ' precisely what has just happened and what are the specific consequences/ what has or hasn't changed?' myself in terms of going into specifics. Which I agree you need to do for something like this- especially as it's a case of everything isn't going to be suddenly fine the next day but likewise it's left some things in tact, even if imperfectly so.

It does thread through a lot of my campaign so if I get this wrong it could fail on that aspect and I'm new to the GM side of the table actually creating a game.

I guess another key point for such events is to not set up a 'so we can time travel/ radically remake the world' mindset. The pc's don't have this ability.

I think a good tip for design is, as with novels, you can go into a lot more detail 'behind the scenes' so you have a wider spectrum of information to arrive at the answers/ background you need, then narrow it down to what the GM and players need to know and how it actually impacts the situation and make sure you tell it well. Doing this will also mean you don't forget about any of it and it remains in your setting as something that resolves itself- or not- over time. A bit like the lost on an island at sea/ post-apocalypse cliches you need the various answers in your set-up and behind-the-scenes knowledge to, as Wulfborn says, decide what the consequences are, how widespread they are, what situation they've left your players in and how they're going to affect the game and its setting further ahead.

Such things certainly shouldn't be 'gotchas' - players should know and know any ways they are compromised so rather than Noahjam325's idea I think it better to tell it right at the start before the roleplaying begins rather than spring it on them as a surprise just after they start.

I think it's important as well to underline in my head that the world hasn't gone back in time, it's evidently a sort of new beginning but a bit like midnight on a clock being a start point, it's a progressing one, so I probably need to check my work and thinking for not confusing this point and leading incorrectly to a 'things have gone back in time' mindset- even in my own thought processes! Think groundhog day only it's not going back to the start of the day, there's that opportunity to put things right but it's no case of hey we've gone back in time so all the negative events never happened.

Any more thoughts on getting this right are welcome- does the intro I have thus far work as the pre-roleplaying bit? It probably needs some tweaking (I need to tidy up and clarify the speakers of the dialogue) so I'm open to constructive criticism and any 'how to set up the roleplaying' tips.

I would recommend if you can, look at the Mythic Battles Pantheon RPG to get some ideas. The entire concept of the setting for both the board game and RPG is that Hera unleashed the Titans and caused a second Titanomachy. As a result a lot of Greece is in ruins in some form or another, Centaurs have formed their own kingdom(s) the Amazons have their territories, etc. The setting doesn't have to be used but they do use a Barter system instead of currency, so it could give you some ideas as to how you might "pay" for a bed in a tavern or hostel by hunting or using medicine/apothecary skills and the like. Likewise Path of Exile ARPG is a good way to get a feel of both starting off as an outcast and seeing other people and how they survived and built a couple shelters (in different acts) and again, a barter heavy currency system.

Both of those suggestions have some aspect similar to what it sounds like your idea is. And again, don't be afraid to "Make" the weapons yourselves, so that a Bronze sword might not do as much damage as the standard one, if your technology is lower, or being able to make steel weapons isn't as easy or the like. Or increase the weapons damage just slightly, or crit range or what have you, minor changes that can go far in showing difference in crafting skill not just relying on "Ancient" or "Primitive" or "Elven" or "Dwarven". The default Longsword might be the one in the book but one that is made like a Katana could have one more damage, or the Longsword might do slightly less and the Katana do average, or a lesser quality chainmail might give Soak instead of Defense, or what have you. With some creative tweaking I think that you could customize the world to a flavorful degree with just minor differences in weapons or armor.