Just now, Tvayumat said:

Well, that's a good roll, isn't it? Saying a card isn't super effective against a good roll isn't really a good critique of that card. I can come up with many other scenarios in which EM is actually quite good.

If that same vehicle had a dodge token from EM and another dodge token from its own activation, it would be able to remove one potential Impact eligible hit that it wouldn't have before, too.

No, it's not, Vader Averages 4.5 hits with 3.75 crits. It's a very average roll (slightly below average on the crit). The dodge token just changes Vader's average from 3.75 to 3 crits because it removes the possible nat crit.

Just now, MasterShake2 said:

No, it's not, Vader Averages 4.5 hits with 3.75 crits. It's a very average roll (slightly below average on the crit). The dodge token just changes Vader's average from 3.75 to 3 crits because it removes the possible nat crit.

So what's the contention here? That Vader is dangerous? He's 200 pts, of course he's dangerous, and he has a great attack pool.

Just now, Tvayumat said:

So what's the contention here? That Vader is dangerous? He's 200 pts, of course he's dangerous, and he has a great attack pool.

The contention was exclusively that it has an odd interaction with the Impact mechanic. Then you said 4 hits with no crits from Vader was a good roll, which it really isn't based on averages. You keep bringing up unconnected stuff. I am confuse.

2 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:

The contention was exclusively that it has an odd interaction with the Impact mechanic. Then you said 4 hits with no crits from Vader was a good roll, which it really isn't based on averages. You keep bringing up unconnected stuff. I am confuse.

Yeah, I have about as much time for number crunching in wargames as I do for coming up with good similes.

Four hits is a good roll, in mechanical terms. Four hits with Impact 3 against an Armor target is objectively "a good roll" assuming the target lacks cover or the attack is melee, which it is.

I don't see how the interaction is odd, though. It's pretty clear cut. Evasive Maneuvers isn't designed to make vehicles invulnerable or even tanky (I would think the word "Evasive" might give this away), and Impact is specifically, explicitly, intentionally and overtly designed to be effective against targets with Armor.

The OP's argument is that there are too many things that are capable of dropping the AT-ST. I don't think the problem the AT-ST has is that it's vulnerable to defeat. It's main issues are:
1) it's a big target
2) it relies on the player to know where he can best fit on the battlefield.

It does not have the issue of dying. I have played close to 10 games with the AT-ST and it hasn't died once. It's a bad time for the Rebel player who thinks to destroy the AT-ST because it requires so much firepower to drop it -- firepower that can otherwise lay down bullets on easier targets (troops.)

Sorry. Just have to disagree with the OP here. Dying isn't an issue for the AT-ST.

8 minutes ago, Xiervak said:

The OP's argument is that there are too many things that are capable of dropping the AT-ST. I don't think the problem the AT-ST has is that it's vulnerable to defeat. It's main issues are:
1) it's a big target
2) it relies on the player to know where he can best fit on the battlefield.

It does not have the issue of dying. I have played close to 10 games with the AT-ST and it hasn't died once. It's a bad time for the Rebel player who thinks to destroy the AT-ST because it requires so much firepower to drop it -- firepower that can otherwise lay down bullets on easier targets (troops.)

Sorry. Just have to disagree with the OP here. Dying isn't an issue for the AT-ST.

Piggyback this and my prior. If you position your ATST properly you aren't deploying t as your vanguard. He should have Troopers situated between itself and the enemy and taking advantage of range 4 and hopefully some degree of cover.

6 hours ago, Indy_com said:

Just pinging this to bring up the last part of the "Evasive Manoeuvres" command card.

Yeah, that is a really nice command card if you are running armor.

On 4/29/2018 at 2:33 AM, MasterShake2 said:

The problem with Evasive Maneuvers is that it only works against Nat crits, the interaction with Impact is goofy. Let's say Vader just scores 4 normal hits. Well having a dodge token even with Evasive literally does nothing. Makes it a very odd card. Still works if they score nat crits or get a number of normal hits equal to or below their impact, just very odd.

Impact changes the hits to crits after the apply dodge and cover step.

So even a normal dodge without veers would get rit of one of Vaders hits.

This was a big point of concern in the Bolt Action community about armor and AT weapons. (Similar game mechanics to this)

It was ultimately halibaloo about nothing.