A title which causes a basic TIE fighter [Academy pilot] to spawn on any map border whenever a TIE interceptor gets destroyed...

There's too many of them!

19 hours ago, xanderf said:

Really, the problem is that they actually aren't that maneuverable. It's **** trying to "get behind a target" with them - and that was just with regular 80-degree arcs and an enemy that was paying attention. With the 180-degree arcs, even AT isn't going to be helping much anymore.

To emphasize maneuverability, you'd need some kind of ability like Valen Rudor's, combined with an attacker penalty.

Something like: "The first time you are attacked in a turn, the enemy may not modify their attack dice. After defending against this attack, you may perform a free boost action."

(Which shouldn't help Soontir too much, as he's usually stressed by the time he's being attacked, so cannot take free actions - and as often as not, has already used a boost action in the activation phase, anyway.)

With the title proposed, it arguably makes more sense for Soontir to not PTL during the activation phase, and wait for his free Boost action to PTL instead.

If he is topped by the new PS meta, he isn't shooting first, but instead focus as his action, and then getting a free boost at the end of the attack, he can then PTL to Barrel Roll into an even more desirable location, with a focus, and probably at a better range.

Ok, I'll say something that may make me unpopular, but I'll say it anyway: not all ships should be redesigned (or re-costed) so that a maximum number of them will suddenly work in a jousting scenario. The Tie Interceptor is a perfect example of that: it should reward cleverness, tactical planning, positionning and catching your opponent by surprise.

So maybe an upgrade along the line of : "Once per round, when an enemy ships performs a manoeuver and ends in range 1-3 and in arc, you may perform a free barrel roll or boost action".

You know, something that highlights that there's very little out there that can be as manoeuverable as a Tie Interceptor. Incidentally, this may allow Interceptors to actually dodge bombs.

The problem with the Tie interceptor is not just status, is that it's way of fying is dead. It was made to be a ship that survive using superior dial to be out of arc of enemies, and that way of flying is long dead (turrents, bombs,etc). X-wing is turning into a fancy card game, where you get in range and shot, and the one who get the better combos wins, the games now are like:

- I shot this missile on you, 4 dice heavly modified auto hit on you. Got hit, get a condition, now i shot again with other ship that activate the condition and splash damage you

- Wait i have an ability that can transfer that damage to another ship, so i live, got to shot back. Now i gain a stresss to modify dice, and i lose a stress for hiting, and bla bla bla bla bla bla bla.

Flying well is reduced to a tie breaker, you only use it to make sure you get to shot at the right distance to active abilities/weapons or if the 2 lists have even combos, then one block denying action can be a tie breaker.

So any ship that was made to rely on good flying to live is obsolete, and you can include in this, Tie interceptor, Tie Fighters, Tie Phantom, etc. When you put that at the table you have to pray that the enemy don't have turrents, or lots of bombs so that you can have an even fight.

And as it is right now, these ships does not even fly better than the others anymore, the list of advantages that made it good at the time:

- Better dial : Not better anymore, you have a lloooonnnnggg list of good dials out there, with lot's of greens, fancy 180 turns (even whites are comon now), so better dials are not a empire thing anymore

- Good repositioning after moving (bost, roll): again had turned into a common thing, everybody have it (even x-wings now, for free), you have roll with banks, now even big bases have roll/bost, wich is an aberration on how much ground they can cover with it... don't even try to outrun a big ship now, it can get you with your 5 move just moving at any speed (even 1) and impulse.

- High ps pilots: Again, every slow turtle ship now have a ps 9 pilot, or have enoth action economy that it can use its EPT to put a VI and turn that 7/8 PS into a 9/10 PS making that slow tank ship move after and shot first.

So arc dodging is dead, and that's it, you can't fix tie interceptor or any other ship that rely on arc dodging to survive, you can turn it into another kind of ship by giving resistance to being shot, so it does not die so easly, but by doing so it will be no longer a ship that survive by flying well and avoiding being shot, it will turn into another ship.

4 hours ago, Yakostovian said:

With the title proposed, it arguably makes more sense for Soontir to not PTL during the activation phase, and wait for his free Boost action to PTL instead.

If he is topped by the new PS meta, he isn't shooting first, but instead focus as his action, and then getting a free boost at the end of the attack, he can then PTL to Barrel Roll into an even more desirable location, with a focus, and probably at a better range.

It's a pretty big risk for Soontir to go into the combat phase with only a single token, but sure - I could see someone doing exactly what you suggest.

I don't see that as a particularly big problem, though, no? I mean, again, Soontir (as he is now) is DOA. So...changing things around some to give him new options seems like a good thing.

12 minutes ago, xanderf said:

It's a pretty big risk for Soontir to go into the combat phase with only a single token, but sure - I could see someone doing exactly what you suggest.

I don't see that as a particularly big problem, though, no? I mean, again, Soontir (as he is now) is DOA . So...changing things around some to give him new options seems like a good thing.

9 minutes ago, xanderf said:

It's a pretty big risk for Soontir to go into the combat phase with only a single token, but sure - I could see someone doing exactly what you suggest.

I don't see that as a particularly big problem, though, no? I mean, again, Soontir (as he is now) is DOA. So...changing things around some to give him new options seems like a good thing.

Oh, I fully agree the Interceptor needs something, but I still think that in today's meta, Soontir moving nearly last and shooting nearly first still lets him make an informed enough decision to PTL during the move phase, or later during the combat phase. I argue that your proposal helps Soontir more than you think it does.

On 4/26/2018 at 11:54 AM, Rakaydos said:

Is this enough or too much? If too much, would a price of 1-2 points fix it?

Ending your turn with stress shuts it down the next turn, but bumping or going over rocks only takes away the normal action. You can PTL off the free action and do a green to clear the stress before it hurts you, but you only get 1 reposition before maneuver and 1 after.

Alpha squadrons and Saber squadrons swarm. Royal Guards get Autos+hull upgrade or autos+stealth device.

Kir Kanos gets a token stack. Lorir, unfortumately, still self-stresses at the worst time. Soontier chooses between PS11 or using his ability with PTL, but even PS11 soont has 2 focus on a Kturn and 1 action the following turn. Tur Phener has been replaced by a tech slot, but Carnor may still have a place. And Tetran Cowell can use his ability without instatly exploding.

So the replies I saw for this one were:

Kill the pre-move PTL cheese
Give it to all the unshielded ties
Keep the PTL cheese, but kill the ability to combo with the previous Intercepter fix.

Pre-move PTL boost works to massively increase where the intercepter could be, but the PS wars have left even the best intercepter pilots behind, so they cannot count on being reactive, as they used to, and are less able to bring their guns on target than in the wave 6 meta.

The tie fighter needs the help too, but the bomber is getting close to competitive already, and this combos far too well with lightweight frame on 6 hull. The fighter is possible, but a free Vader on everyone in an 8 tie swarm is too much- it needs some kind of price to be fair for the tie fighter, even if it's not the full value of the ability.

Royal guard is a dated fix- here's more slots for you to spend points on!, but it's one that made the incercepter elites viable for many waves. Taking Stealth or hull away from an Autothruster soontier makes him cheaper, but even so, the extra token wont be enough to push him up, IMO, without his old toolkit.

Thoughts?

maybe this? any feedback?

I think part of the buff to tie interceptors will have to involve a nerf to bombs/harpoons/turrets. I just think those three make the game worse and limit variety.

It’s always fun to look at these threads and see some of the more creative ideas, as well as some of the “omg ya that’s way too much what made you think that was ok?” Ideas.

1 hour ago, Kdubb said:

It’s always fun to look at these threads and see some of the more creative ideas, as well as some of the “omg ya that’s way too much what made you think that was ok?” Ideas.

Any thoughts as to which is which?

6 hours ago, CMDR Ytterium said:

maybe this? any feedback?

Too fast for turrets to keep track? Isn't that the whole point of turrets? This makes the TIE Interceptor crazy good against turrets, and I don't really get why it goes away once it gets hit by something. That's weird.

It's like a stealth device that specifically hates turrets but also hates the idea of giving you another die.

Rolling defence dice against bomb damage? I feel like they should be able to dodge a bomb.

Extra defence dice when out of arc or at range one? Easier to swat a fly with a tennis racket at arms length than right in your face.

And points reduction ofc. The whole point of points is balance innit.

Thinking through theoretical nested action combos makes my brain hurt.

5 hours ago, Cuz05 said:

Rolling defence dice against bomb damage? I feel like they should be able to dodge a bomb.

Extra defence dice when out of arc or at range one? Easier to swat a fly with a tennis racket at arms length than right in your face.

And points reduction ofc. The whole point of points is balance innit.

Thinking through theoretical nested action combos makes my brain hurt.

These need to happen. The one time we see bombs used against a starfighter in the entire franchise, they accomplish nothing because the target is too agile. Defense die should be rolled.

On 4/28/2018 at 6:47 AM, Alpha17 said:

These need to happen. The one time we see bombs used against a starfighter in the entire franchise, they accomplish nothing because the target is too agile. Defense die should be rolled.

Even as much as I HATE bombs, I agree, as long as they are not the overlap kind of bomb. If you fly over/onto one of those, you deserve the death you get.

On 4/27/2018 at 4:47 PM, CMDR Ytterium said:

maybe this? any feedback?

Just lose the last sentence and this could be decent.

Sounds like we need Imperial Aces 3

This time though we get an Interceptor and the Inferno Squad TIE:

Interceptor:
Vult Skerris
Gideon Hask
Ciena Rae
Nash Windrider

TIE Fighter:
Inferno Squad Specialist
Seyn Marana
Del Meeko
Iden Versio

No idea what the cards or pilot abilities would be but i'm guessing there should be a modification which allows you to roll half your agility (rounding up) against bombs? I dunno.

On 4/27/2018 at 2:06 PM, MrParsons said:

As I see it the original point of the Interceptor was a nippy little bugger that could zip around and out manoeuvre the enemy. Not getting shot was part of the point. Then if you did get shot you had as many, if not more, green dice than your opponent had red dice. The enemy had to block you / focus fire in order to take you down.

That game doesn't exist any more. Bombs, many turrets, better manoeuvrability of enemies, and more red dice have taken that game away.

So if we want the original point of Interceptors to be viable again then they need

1. A way to defend against bombs
2. A better way than the existing (autothrusters) to defend against multiple turrets
3. Better manoeuvrability or a way to reduce enemy manoeuvrability
4. More green dice or a way to reduce enemy red dice

That's a lot of stuff. No idea where to start.

I don't think that giving them more hull / shields is the way to go. They lose their identity. Maybe an extra point hull at most.

I've given this some more thought. I still think that my 4 points are valid. Here are my suggestions for dealing with them

1. Roll half agility (rounded down) green dice to defend against bomb damage
2. Enhanced autothrusters than can convert an extra blank to an eye
3. Enemy ships in your firing arc cannot boost or barrel roll
4. Free Stealth Device or Stealth Device doesn't get removed when you get hit

How much all of that costs or how it's delivered is a different matter.

2 hours ago, MrParsons said:

I've given this some more thought. I still think that my 4 points are valid. Here are my suggestions for dealing with them

1. Roll half agility (rounded down) green dice to defend against bomb damage
2. Enhanced autothrusters than can convert an extra blank to an eye
3. Enemy ships in your firing arc cannot boost or barrel roll
4. Free Stealth Device or Stealth Device doesn't get removed when you get hit

How much all of that costs or how it's delivered is a different matter.

1. Against range bombs, perhaps. If you fly over a bomb or land on one, you should suffer without an agility roll. I'd still give full agility to bombs at range, personally.
2. I think if some additional conditions were placed on it, but I'd rather go with "may reroll 1 green die for each other friendly TIE fighter/Interceptor at range 1"
3. During what phase? I think you need to account for swarm tactics. Something more like "During the activation phase, you may select an enemy ship in arc at range 1-2. Choose: That ship may not boost or may not barrel roll for the remainder of the round." This way, you limit the options of ships, without removing them, unless you are playing with a swarm. Plus, it doesn't shut down a bunch of ships at once, only the one. Limiting options on a turn-by-turn basis is less NPE than all your ships (in arc) are completely shut out of repositioning."
4. That I can get behind. Interceptors need to be hard to hit. I'd personally be all for an Interceptor only title that adds an evade result to every defense, or "cancel all defense dice to add two evade results."